119: The Beginning of a Sales Career With Lauren Bailey

Thank you to our partners, SalesLoft, LeadIQ, and Costello for helping us put this one on. Find all our upcoming events at jbarrows.com slash events. Good afternoon, everybody. This is John Barrows. I'll make it happen Mondays. Hopefully, you all had a fantastic weekend. I am very excited for our guest today because I think we share a very similar mindset on a lot of different things. And we are pseudo-competitors, kind of. I guess we overlap in a little bit. But I'm always about frenemies. Working together, I personally don't think there's really much competition out there because if you're good at what you do, you do what you do. And if you lose, you've got to get better. So let's introduce Lauren Bailey over at Factor 8.

Lauren, how are you? I'm so good. Thank you very much. Happy Monday. Thanks for having me. We do share a lot, don't we? We share lanes. We share passions. We decided five minutes ago before we started recording that we might actually share some genes. We have enough in common. Exactly. I have slightly more hair than you do, but you drop an equal number of F-bombs as I do. So we're good. Exactly. It's perfect. So Lauren, you're with Factor 8. Why don't you at least give the audience a little bit of background of what Factor 8 is all about? And also some of the other things that you're doing right now because I think it puts some context to our conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Happy to. So I grew up in sales leadership and really remember the feeling of being in my early 20s and running an inside sales team and just not knowing what the fuck I was doing.

That's the background. Flash forward 15, 20 years, I went back and forth between sales leadership in corporate America and training leadership because frankly, I just got pissed that my reps had come off knowing everything out of training. Like I know everything about the product and I can spout theory at you, but I can't freaking sell it over the phone and it just, I knew I could do it better. So I started building new hire programs and my last corporate gig, I was in charge of the inside sales training strategy for SAP and that did me in like hated my boss. That was it. Bounced out, started Factor 8. That was 11 or 12 years ago now. Factor 8 specializes in those two pain points. Like we help young sellers build confidence selling over the phone with tactical tips and tricks that actually get wins.

And then we also work with young sales managers filling in those gaps. Like HR will teach you how to not sexually harass somebody, but not how to do a sales one-on-one or a pipeline meeting or a sales huddle. So we really play in that tactical hands-on space with people at that 101, 201 level of their career. I love it. Yeah, that's Factor 8. And then a year ago, I got sick of talking about why there weren't so many women in sales and sales leadership and I started Girls Club and that's my passion project. Love it. And Girls Club, what's the kind of the mission there? Yeah, so the mission of Girls Club is to change the face of sales leadership by helping more women earn leadership positions in sales.

So we've got a really robust community with lots of great learning and content and inspiration. But the heart of Girls Club is the exclusive training program. We open that up once a year. We accept up to 100 women. And over the six-month period, we're teaching three different areas, John. One is the tactical sales management skills. So if you're nervous about raising your hand because you don't feel you're ready, we're going to teach you how to do the job better than the turkeys in the job. Yes. The second leg of the stool is confidence building. So as women, we just are ingrained with a need for perfectionism and a bit of an aversion to risk-taking. So we do our best to battle those in the confidence building.

And then the third leg of the stool is around community. I came up the only woman at the table. And so we kind of have to go outside of our walls or sometimes our industries or time zones to build a community of role models and colleagues and mentors that get us. And that's the third leg. I love it. Yeah. It's been so successful and so fun. I got to imagine because there's such a need for it, too. Some of the best sales professionals I know are women, and it just breaks my heart to walk through organizations and see them so underrepresented, especially at the leadership levels. Oh, yeah. Somebody told me that venture capitalists, sales, and long-haul trucking are the top three industries for the lack of women in sales leadership.

So there you go. We're going to change that. Like, long-haul trucking, okay, I can see maybe why women might not want to even get into that profession. Yeah. But the other two are disheartening. You know, I mean, it's, you know, decisions and all that other stuff should be made with a diverse mindset, if you will. Yeah, but I got to give credit to the, like, can I just be blunt and say the white males out there? Yeah. But it's not always easy. I get calls every single week saying, I'm trying really hard to be diverse in my hiring, and I haven't had a single woman apply. Yeah. And that's what we own. You know what I mean? That's where we're trying to make the change. Yeah, and I think there's a little bit of, you know, obviously ignorance to that in the sense that we don't know what we don't.

I mean, Lori, you know, again, Lori Richardson, you know, one of the things she opened up my eyes to a while back was just even how job descriptions were written. Big time. Like, literally, the words that are put in job descriptions automatically deter women because it's very male-driven language, like win, crush, you know, all that stuff. No, literally, I found out I was doing it. So, like, I've started Girls Club. I'm passionate. I am a chick. Yeah. And my job descriptions were also male-focused. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, here's the second tip I learned in that arena is don't put everything they need to be able to do on the job. Yeah. Right? Because if there's 10 things on the job description, a woman won't raise her hand unless she has all 10.

Right. Right? Whereas a guy is like, hey, 60%, they'd be lucky to have me. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, reduce the number of things that you're looking for as requirements. And if you're, it doesn't mean that you don't want 10 things, but if you're advertising 10, you're going to reduce the number of women who raise their hand. That makes a really good point. So, let's do this. Let's chat because I think that theme is throughout the entire conversation. But let's tackle this from, you know, one of the things you said walking in, like, when we were doing a little bit of prep for this really struck me because it's something near and dear to my heart that I've been thinking about. And I kind of shared this with you before we got on here, which is, you know, you and I both share an affinity for Gong and their data and what they've got.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. And they had done this one post a little while back called Why Your Reps Can't Sell to the C-Suite. Right? And it was this four-step, they outlined this four-step process to go through to develop a C-suite presentation. And the first part of it was develop your nexus, which is that polarizing statement that you believe that gets people to violently agree or violently disagree with you. And that's how you start, right? Especially with a C-level because you have to punch them square in the mouth with something that gets their attention. And so I've been actually really thinking about my nexus, what is the Jay Barrows nexus? Yeah. And one of them is we believe that methodology selling is dead.

We believe that singular methodology selling, if you subscribe to any singular sales methodology, I think you're a dinosaur. Because if you're not in agile selling these days, you're going to get smoked. And you had said that straight, you had said that just in conversation, that you just believe that methodologies are bullshit. So could you explain why you think methodologies, or first of all, what's your definition of a methodology? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's a lot of definitions out there. Oh, it's so true. And then why you think it's bullshit to subscribe to anyone? Yeah, absolutely. This is good. I got to dig in. So, like, I'm ready to dig in. I had to put the hair up. All right.

So, first of all, I think a lot of people confuse a methodology with a process. I agree. So, a sales process is important. These are the steps I'm going to take. Think of that as, like, the bones of the skeleton. Then the methodology is more about the talk track that I'm going to go for. So, it's sort of like the meat or sometimes the cheap suit on the bones. Sure. Methodologies sell books, and processes don't. I think processes get more results. The positive, I'm going to lead with what's good about a methodology, is that it's a nice crutch. And it's a hell of a lot of a better crutch than a script. Yes. Because I could go on for days about why I hate scripts. Yep. Right? So, it gives people a, oh, shit, I'm in the middle of the play.

Right. What's the next step? Yep. And that is a powerful and important thing for especially a young seller. There's a much more on the bullshit side of the equation. So, the first reason I think that they are not helpful is that in today's world, it's all digital and phone, et cetera. So, most of the methodologies are dinosaur in nature because it assumes I have this face-to-face undivided attention. Yes. Right? And that's like, come on, 80% of your sales day is spent trying to get the son of a bitch on the phone and paying attention to you in the first place. Yep. So, that's why I think they're bunk. The second one is every situation calls for something a little different, right? Like, can you really tell me what's the difference between question-based selling, consultative selling, and value selling?

No. Like, aren't I really doing the same great open-ended discovery on needs and wants in all three of those? Like, that's why, like, acronyms, just like MEDIC and BANT and all that shit, it's literally the exact same shit, but because, but it's almost like, you know, because now there's a new acronym, they can market it and sell it that way to your point of selling a book. Like, I, I almost, I almost roll my eyes, and I'm not joking, and I, sorry for all the marketers out there that are listening to me who care about this shit, but I, I literally, when, when I hear ABM, I, I literally roll my eyes every time. Like, account-based marketing, it's like. It's the big new thing. It's a new buzzword.

Why? Because there's a new, a new acronym to it? Like, account-based, or, or even worse, in my, in my opinion, is account-based sales. Like, when somebody starts talking about account-based selling, I'm like, uh, okay, Miller, Hyman, Tat, like, go back 50 years, and any one of the bigger methodologies are all centered around the customer. So it's account-based sales, as it, account-based marketing, to me, is just an admission from marketing that we got to stop spamming the shit out of people. So all that stuff, like, I just, I, I cringe at people who try to come up with new acronyms so they can sell books with no substance. You walk people through a bullshit process that's been something that, that is a re-jiggering of something that's been around for years.

But the other thing that bugs me is that, and, and maybe this is, maybe this is really rude of me, but I don't think enough leaders spend time looking at these buzzwords saying, is this even right for me? I specialize in inside sales, right? And inside sales, at its nature, is huge lists, massive market, high volume. That's not account-based sales. You want account-based sales or marketing if you're selling into the enterprise. So you find these inside sales leaders are like, yeah, we're really trying to adopt an ABM approach. And I'm like, then I don't think you're doing it right, buddy. Why? Right? Same with Challenger. Oh, that one drove me crazy. I would probably get sued for saying this online because I understand they like that, but I'm sorry if you put, and by the way, I thought the same with spin.

You give spin or Challenger to anybody under 30 and they're just going to piss somebody off. So I honestly think we do share some sort of DNA here because I got, I got in a load of shit a few, a couple of years back when Challenger sale, not Challenger customer. I actually think Challenger customer is way better than Challenger sale. But I stood up at a conference and I was like, could y'all do me a favor and stop teaching 22-year-old kids how to be a fucking Challenger? Like, there's like- They're going to fail and they're going to piss people off. Exactly. It's kind of like Gary V. I don't know, you probably follow Gary V, Gary Vaynerchuk, right? Like he's, or at least know of him. He's batshit crazy.

And one of the things he said is you can't be a 22-year-old life coach. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I haven't lived yet. I mean, maybe to a 10-year-old kid, sure, fine. Right? But it's like, or these, all these millennials who want to be motivational speakers. Like what kind of hardship have you been through in your life yet that is, that it allows you to stand up on fucking stage and motivate people just because you're really energetic? No. So Challenger sale, like you have to know when and where to apply it, which I think gets back to the methodology question, which is I think there's little pieces of every methodology out there that are good that you should use to create your own. So how do you approach that?

How do you approach the vast amounts of content that is out there? And if you're a sales rep sitting out there, because I think we can start with like you're getting into sales. How do you know whether it's even right for you moving into management? And let's say they don't have a company like yours or mine or an organization that they work for that really does invest in them in training. You mean so 80% of the organizations out there have no line item budget for development. Right? So how do you go through sifting through all this shit that's out there, figuring out what's good and what's not, and then figuring out what's good and what's not in general, and then also what's good and what's not for you?

Yeah, that's the bigger question, isn't it? So if we're looking at that from a rep point of view, like way back when, when you and I first got into sales, right? Like how did you decide what works for you? It's trying shit out. Yeah, it is. It's trying shit out. So I think that the first strategy I would recommend is not what you probably think I'm going to say, and that is how do you win faster? Okay. So it's like, remember Moneyball? Yeah. Right? With like the Oakland A's, Brad Pitt for the ladies out there. And it was all about, like, I'm just going to invest in the guys who can get on first. Not the biggest name, not the best pitcher, not the outfielder. If you can get on first base, I want you on my team.

Because you can't get home if you can't get on first. Gotcha. Right? So you can go into dating analogy too, if that helps. Right? Absolutely. Just saying, you're not going to make it home, guys, until you can get to first base. So focus on first base first. And what's first base in sales? It's getting conversations. Yep. So get smart about how you're attacking your lead list or your book. Jump in and sales qualify it. And I'll come back to that in a second, because it's not a big thing out there. And I think it should be. Get better at your introductions and your voicemails. Quit trying to sell so hard and just get people to have a conversation with you. Like, that to me is where I'd like everybody to start.

That builds confidence as well. Like, if you think of young reps, right? And you go into them in the first month on the phones, and you're like, how was that call? The truth is, they don't fucking know. Because it was just like, it was moving so fast. And who said what? That's why I love Gong and Chorus and ExecVision, all the recording tools. What were you going to say? Well, I was going to ask you something, because this has been something I've been trying to think about for myself. Which is, like, when you and I got into sales, we didn't have the segmentation. There was no predictable revenue model. It was, here's your fucking territory. Here's your quota. Good luck, right? And so what I think that did was, unfortunately, I think it got a lot more people out of sales faster, because they kind of, because doing everything was, it was really hard to manage, right?

So you were like, holy shit, I can't do all this. Fuck it. I'm going to go find another job, right? Especially since we're not educated in our careers, and that's what we're doing, right? But for those of us that stayed and figured it out, I think we became much more well-rounded sales professionals much faster, okay? I'll give you that, for sure. So now, I see the benefit of predictable revenue and segmentation and focusing on, yeah, I kind of look at it like, you know, my first major was art, right? And Picasso's my favorite artist. And one of the things he did was he mastered every medium before he went to the next one, right? He didn't play around with a bunch of different shit and whatever.

He was like, nope, I'm going to do this. And then- And we do that now. We segment sales. And then I'm going to do this, right? So I love the idea of segmentation and specialization, but do you think it retards the growth of a sales professional? I think it does worse than that. I think it turns them off. So way back in the dark ages, right, 15 years ago, we had rounded sellers, right? You were a hunter, you were a farmer, just to make it as simple as possible. You probably had a rep title or an executive title or whatever. We didn't have BDRs, AEs, account managers, customer success. Right now, I would say most organizations have at least two segments. Some have five, right? I think the problem with that is this.

When I was back trying to hire in great sellers in the dark ages, the hunting was the hard part. The farming was the easy part. I mean, can we agree on that? Oh, 100%. 100%. That's why I'm like, no, cold calling isn't dead. That's the rise of marketing is trying to make it easier and less cold, right? But it's the hardest part of the job is the hunting. And now, that's where we start almost everyone. BDR, SDR, that entry-level tip-of-the-spear role is literally the hardest part of sales. Yeah. And we have explosive growth expectations. And we can thank SAS for that. SAS has given us a lot of fabulous things. But, right, I mean, one out of every 10 companies makes it, and they've got to carry the rest of the losers.

So, the expectation is explosive high to the right, right? Disruptive growth. Now, when you do that, you're in a goddamn hurry to get results. Right. So, I'm going to onboard 20 BDRs. I've got no line item for training, because most don't. And I need them to succeed as fast as possible, which means I'm not putting time into the care and feeding and development of these human beings, right? I'm going to give them a ton of tools. I'm going to give a killer standard process. I'm going to give them a script to follow. And they're going to burn out faster every year. Studies show us, right? And I don't really care, because I'll just go get more. Right. We're teaching people to hate sales, John. And I totally get, you know, because it really bothers.

I think that's a much more macro problem, too, in the sense, one of the things that scared the shit out of me a long time. Like, this is back probably, I don't know, three or four elections, and I don't want to get politics. But one of the people who was running for president was asked, like, was giving the, telling the story about how she had met with 50 of the top CEOs of 50 of the top companies in the world. And they were asked, oh, no, she was referencing a study, sorry. She was referencing a study where 50 of the top CEOs of the 50 top companies in the world were asked, if you could make a decision today that you knew in five years would benefit your company, the environment, the people, everything.

It would be a huge, massive benefit, but would cost you one penny off your stock price today, would you make that decision? One penny, okay? 50 out of 50 of them said no. Fuck. Because they said, if I did make that decision that cost my business, the organization that penny off the stock price, I wouldn't make it for five years to see what the outcome of my decision was. And so I feel like we're in such this short-term, like, monthly quotas, all this other stuff, that we're literally forcing this volume game, and to your point, stuffing kids into it and throwing people at the problem. And I'm wondering, I see it getting worse, but I'm wondering, what can we do to fix it? How is it going to get better?

Like, how is it going to get better? Yeah. Ooh, that's a big one. Let's solve that in five minutes. And one more piece to this is, I also feel like we're in a weird space right now where we're literally, we're in the transition phase of technology, of we're teaching the technology how to do our jobs. Like, all these kids that are doing all this stuff, and all this analytics and BI that's happening behind the scenes, it's all being married up to teach the machines how to do what we're doing better, right? So artificial intelligence and those type of things are, my gut says that within the next five years, there's going to be a major shift here in that because we're teaching it, right? So technology being the answer and cutting out the other 75% to 80% of sales reps that are literally just going through the fucking motions, where's your head at with where all this is going?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's light at the end of the tunnel. You remember 10 years ago when everybody started offshoring everything to India? Yep. Right? And it backfired, man. It's coming back. Gangbusters. The pendulum swung. The pendulum swung back. Yep. And I think we're going to see some of that. If you look at some of the studies out there, 53% of customer loyalty is based on the sales rep. Yep. I saw that. Yeah, I did see that report. Right? That's impressive. Yeah. I think you'll see that start to grow because it's so uncommon. In fact, I can't even keep up with this recent stat. I think it's now under 10% of people who actually trust salespeople. So we're getting worse at it. And it's no wonder we're putting in younger people with less development, less experience.

Right? And customers are seeing the difference. So I think that you'll start to see the pendulum still shifting away from quality salesmanship. Right. But as it shifts away, the companies who do invest in their people and building long-term careers and building skills and building sales as a profession and a career path in their companies, I think they'll see their customer loyalties spike. I think you'll see a differentiator. Now, how long does it take to see that in a stock price? I don't know, right? Gallup talked about that 20 years ago. Hey, pretty soon a differentiator in a company is going to be your employee engagement. Now, I think we're there today. Can anybody put a hard number to it and show a difference in stock price?

I don't know. Maybe not. And here's a random thought that's going to just like crash like a lead balloon, you know, talking about a nexus, right? People are going to love this or fucking hate it. Maybe this is why you see better performing companies with women on the board. They talk about more VCs and women-owned company. VCs have talked about more of the women-owned companies. Even Mr. Wonderful, right, from Shark Tank. Oh, 100%. Yeah, he's all in. Just post it out there. And fuck, that's a horrible stereotype saying, I'm going to care more about my employee's development than a man in my job. But it's a stereotype that maybe is ringing true. Maybe that's some of the proof in the pudding. Well, can I ask you, do you think that is a, sort of going back to the female-male thing, do you think that is more about women or do you think that's more about diversity in general?

Oh, God, diversity in general, for sure. Yeah, I think. Because I've seen the studies where, like, you know, name the color, right? Women, men, name the color. Like, those teams. And I think women are the tip of the spear as far as getting that diversity going. But I think the diversity in general, I mean, I've seen teams that come from different countries and different perspectives be far more successful because they're just coming in. I mean, if you develop a team with a bunch of white males like me who all played sports and are all, you know, Red Sox fans and go Patriots and fucking rah, rah, rah shit. Right, right, right. I'm going to get a very singular mentality and nobody's really going to disagree on anything because we all kind of have the same mentality of where we're going.

Whereas if you come with people from different perspectives and different angles, you know, that's where creativity happens. That's where, you know, pushback happens, you know, like, you know, constructive pushback. Yeah, but I think they're one and the same. Like, I think that an organization that takes a minute and takes a beat to try to foster diversity is the same organization that takes a minute and takes a beat and tries to actually develop human beings and career paths and skills in sales. I agree. But how do you balance that, right? Because historically, you know, companies invested in their employees because their employees stayed with them for years. Right, right, right. And all that other stuff.

It's chicken and the egg, right? Right. So, but now we've gotten into the point where the average kid these days is going to have 12 or 15 jobs or something ridiculous like that. So you're looking at these companies being like, why the fuck should I invest in my reps when really at the end of the day, they're going to be here for 1.3 years and go find a better job someplace else. So what's the point? Yeah, let's just throw people at it. I mean, I see where this problem is coming from. I see it too. But you've got to look at the flip side of that and say, all right, yeah, but the number one thing millennials are looking for is career development, right? And an opportunity to grow. So eventually, you're going to run out of logs to throw on that flame, right?

You're going to, sure, okay, don't train them, but they're not going to come. You're not going to bring them into your organization. And people will stay for that, right? If you can build a career path and help them grow, they're going to stay longer. And I think the dollars in the sense are there. And it does. It frustrates me. This is a soapbox I stand on so often that it's a broken box, right? But if you look at the cost of finding somebody, and you can find studies that say it's, you know, 5x somebody's salary. But let's just agree it's going to cost you 50 grand to hire a sales rep. That's right, guys. They paid more to find you than they're paying you a year in base salary, right? But then the average company spends under $1,000 in developing them.

And yet the number one reason people leave is a lack of development. That's not fucking rocket science. Pay to develop your people, right? And they're going to stay longer. It's like, you know, Goofus and Gallant and Who's on First pointing fingers across the bow. I don't know. Do you talk about this a lot? I mean, you've got to be on the same soapbox with me, right? I mean, we both sell development. All the time. You know, it drives me crazy. And it also drives me crazy that if and when they do invest in training, they look to the training and the trainer as the solution to their problems. And I don't know if you get this, but I get this all the time, which is, okay, well, what's your reinforcement plan after the training?

And my direct response to them is, I don't know where the fuck your manager is going to be in the training. Are they going to be sitting in the back of the room on their iPhones, not paying attention the entire time? Or are they going to actually be engaged in learning this stuff and that I can coach them because from training dies, like, you know, with, you know, frontline management, if they're not reinforcing it, it doesn't matter. It lives, it dies there. Now, let me ask you what you think your percentage is because my gut's on this one, too. And I've actually said this to executives calling their bullshit on training, which is I fundamentally believe that training, as far as why people make the investment, why they make the investment.

You know, a lot of people think it's all because they want to improve KPIs or they have a very specific metric they're trying to hit or they're trying to address this very specific problem. So, I think at least 50% of training that executives throw money into is purely to show their team that they've invested in them. Ooh, nice. And so, let's check the box, right? Yeah, we do that. And then what they do is, I brought Jay Barrows in, I brought Factor 8 in, I've invested in you. Yeah. Produce. Come to me. Stay with me. And now, if you don't produce, oh, now it's your fault because I... Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So, here's where I think you can tell the difference, right? So, I will tell you that I think that that's a yes when their idea of the investment is a sales kickoff.

Right. Looking for like, hey, I'm going to give you two hours with my people and let them, you know, let them feel great and inspire them. And by the way, teach them how to sell at the same time. Yeah, exactly. It's just, it just doesn't work, folks. It's not like training isn't an event. It just doesn't work that way. So, that's probably your first clue. Remember the, like, redneck, right? Like, here's your first, here's your sign. You might be a redneck. Yeah. You might be check the box training if all you're doing is investing in an SKO. Yep. I think the second way you can tell when people really actually want to see sustained change is they start with their managers. Like, it's really easy for us to blame the reason that training doesn't stick on the managers because, shit, they don't...

They are on the back of the room in their iPhones. If, like, when left to their own devices, they're going to go tackle their own fucking to-do list because it's the busiest job in the world. Yep. And we keep landing things on the managers, right? Like, oh, we don't have a training department, so you hire them, you train them. Like, the recruiting department's not going to help that much. You're going to spend half your time in interviews, right? Because we're turning people over. And then you're going to have all the hot customer issues that are coming in at the same time. And then, by the way, I need you to run these reports and come to these meetings. And it's the fucking hardest job ever.

So how do you prepare to be a trainer, by the way? I mean, I know this is a very deep conversation that we could go another hour on. But if you are in sales, you know, and you think you aspire to be a manager, because I think you're spot on. Like, they don't get any training. They don't get any – they get no expectations of what the role really is. They think it's the next step in their career. And I'd argue that most people shouldn't go into management. They think it's the next step. They think it's what they should do in their careers. But I think it's the absolute wrong thing to do. So how do you, first of all, identify that, A, you think you want to be in that manager? Is it something you really should do?

And then prepare yourself for that. Yeah, good, good, good, good. So if you're doing it for the money, run. Because long-term, right? That's all there is to it. If you're doing it because you want to be in charge, I would say also run. Because all you're doing is opening yourself up to three more layers of people who are in charge of you and being a boss, if that makes sense. The people who are most successful want to get into management for two reasons. And one of them is I genuinely love to help other people, and that's what lights my fire. And the second one is I want to do it better, which is slightly like a revenge. But it's like I had some shitty managers, and I think I can do it better, and I want to do it better.

And far too many of us have had that experience. I think those are your two biggest clues to this is the right track for you. Good. Yeah, because that, I mean, with that mindset, I think the thing I tell kids all the time is make sure you pay attention. One of the things I didn't do enough when I was young, I think, in sales was I didn't pay attention. I just did, right? But I always tell reps, look, pay attention. When your manager rolls out the new comp plan, pay attention to how it was rolled out and how it made you feel and how it made the rest of the team feel. And if it was a shitty job, then think about how you might have done it better. If it was a really good job, then put that in your library of ways to do it moving forward, right?

You're studying. Yeah, you're studying for the job in a big way. I think that there's a problem out there in that there is a gap for the management training. In fact, Factor 8 started there, not with the reps. And I think that's because, like, my memories of being a 23, 24-year-old sales manager in inside sales and just being completely overemployed, let's be frank. Nobody should have hired me in that job at that time. But I didn't know what the hell I was doing, and there wasn't a resource. Like, sure, I could get some training from the company or HR, like how to not sexually harass my people or, you know, the difference between management and leadership. But nobody taught me how to do a performance one-on-one, how to run a pipeline meeting, what the fuck is a sales huddle, and why should I be doing it?

How do I figure out a good contest? How do I, like, what are the meetings I should be having, and how do I quit putting out fires all day and get home to see my family before 8 p.m.? Those are the real struggles of the job. And I think that when companies are serious, they start with developing the managers because we've all grown up without that development, right? And if you're going to change the culture, your frontline managers have to do it. So I don't know if you ever saw this, John. You'll love this. You'll use it as much as me on your soapbox. Training Magazine put out a study, I want to say almost 10 years ago now. Now, the truth is, Training Magazine, like, there's training organizations, and, like, John and I are successful because we don't play with them very much.

Exactly. They're, like, I'm sorry, there are some real unicorns out there that really get it. But for the most part, if your HR staff is teaching your people to sell, you've got bigger fucking problems, right? Bigger problems, yes. But Training Magazine put out a study I loved once. And the study was, what are the two most important factors in making training successful? And by success, we mean I don't just remember it, but I apply it and I see results. Yep. Right? Not bullshit smile sheets. John was the best trainer ever. But he taught me what to do. I understood how to do it. I did it. I got success. And it was what the manager said before the reps went into training and what the manager said after.

So everything you and I do, everything we've built is bullshit compared to how bought in the manager is to the training. So if you want to see real results, you start there and get them excited about the possibilities with development and get them bought into it. Because most of us have run around saying, well, nobody fucking trained me and I did fine. So then how do you as a manager, so say you've identified, you've identified the fact that you want to be a manager because you want to help and you think you can do it better, but you don't have any resources, the company will not invest in training for you. What would your approach to that be? Because there's a ton of free content out there, right?

I know what my approach was when I didn't have any money. What would you suggest to a first-line manager who's sitting there day one on their job, like, holy shit. And what they do, what they know how to do is they know how to close deals. So they end up being deal chasers, which is the worst thing that they can do. So what do you suggest as far as creating a learning environment with limited resources? Okay, so I think, again, the first thing you've got to do as a manager, day one on the job, is, like, create a plan. You know how you and I said sales processes are good, but methodologies suck? Right, yep. But you need a management process. Yep. I call it a management cadence. Okay. So what are the touch points I should be having with people so that I just don't spend all day reacting with a line at my desk?

Got it, yep. So you implement a cadence that says, all right, well, I probably need to have performance meetings once a month. How to go last month, what are the goals this month? All right, I'm going to book those in the first week of the month. And I probably need a team meeting once a month. All right, well, let's make that happen. Should I be having sales huddles? How often do I do one-on-ones? Should I be doing pipeline meetings, right? Call coaching. We never get to call coaching because there's too many other things that come up, right? So you start to put out a plan of how often and in what ways you've got to touch your reps in a non-creepy way. And then start working through that and give as much responsibility as possible to your reps, right?

So they come to the call coaching with a call recording and what they want to work on. And they come to the performance meeting with last month's results and this month's goal and two questions or whatever that is. Build yourself a process and a structure and then the next biggest skill is sticking to it because people will try to blow that up all day long, right? Yeah, we have a lot of fun in one of our training classes. One of my clients called it past the bag of shit. I don't actually put that on the paper anymore in the handouts, but like between you and me, that's what we call it. And we practice all the crazy things that people will bring to their manager during the day. Now, you're high performer listening.

High performing listeners won't get this, but they know the people on their team. They're like, somebody ate my lunch in the break room. Hey, I had this great call. Can I give a discount? Can I? All day long. And we teach the manager to be like, sorry to hear that. Go talk to this person. Go sit the fuck down. I don't care. Bring that to your one-on-one. Wonderful. Let's hear about it in the huddle. But you could spend all day reacting. And that's the first thing you got to do is cart out enough time for you to go work your own agenda and be proactive. Yeah, I think that's the one just general thing that I tell reps from time management standpoint is own your calendar and don't let anybody screw with it, right?

Even customers. I mean, look, we sell shit. We're not, I tell people all the time, like, we're not fucking emergency room doctors. We don't care, cancer. Right, exactly. Like, we literally sell shit. So if somebody doesn't get the fucking proposal in the next 30 seconds, I think they'll be okay, right? The only thing I ever say disrupt as far as an inbound sales lead, the person that, like, raises their hand and says, I want to talk to somebody, that's really the only thing I say, stop what you're doing because the statistics on that are undeniable as far as 10 minutes, whatever. Right. Everything else can wait. So do things in hour chunks. Yes. Plan your day. Yeah, but don't over plan it. Like, you got to have time where you're going to do email.

You got to have time where you're going to walk the floor. And that's step one is plan the rep development and coaching, right? Plan the time you're going to be out walking the walk. That's really important. Yeah. And then we teach like this. Have you ever heard of the Eisenhower matrix? Where it's like, is it urgent? Is it important? Okay. And ask yourself those questions. Like you just said, speed to lead, inbound, that's urgent and important. Yep. Right? Watching the cat video that your rep sent you, maybe not either. Not so much. Not so much. Yeah. So that's, it's tough, but that's where you start as a manager is making time for your team because you got into it because you want to develop people, but everything will work against you at the beginning, right?

And affording you the time to do that. Yeah. And then you won't have the time to even put that plan together if you don't. So, right. Yeah. Which is why you got to notice ahead of time. I love that you said that. Like watch your manager and watch other managers and people list of what you will want to embody and what you don't, and if your company doesn't buy you any training, go find the free stuff a hundred percent. But I think the next thing you got to do if you want to get there is raise your hand. Now, don't do it in your first three months on the job. Sorry, millennials, but you're not ready for a promotion, but you know, crush it for a while and then have the conversation, ladies, you especially, that says, I'm interested in leadership.

What are the paths to get there? Who can I talk to? How can you help me? That's different than saying, hey, I think I deserve this. I want to be in it tomorrow. Yeah. Right. What can I do now to start learning from you? And I haven't met a single leader who wouldn't just eat that up. It's different. It's vulnerable. It's authentic. Well done. I love it. Well, I think we could, like, we probably should have started recording as soon as we got on the call. I know, right? We boiled the ocean. Now we're over time. We boiled the ocean, but let's do this. Let's pause the conversation for another one for a part two here. Just to kind of keep it, we like to keep them around 30, 45 minutes. Keep everybody, all the ADD people out there satisfied.

But look. It'll be interesting to see if this is, if it's interesting to your listeners, right? I think that we talked all over different areas, but we didn't get a ton of good tactical sales stuff. So we'll save some of that. I mean, we've got some stuff if people were listening. But let's say, let's do some, like, straight up fire tactical shit next time, and we'll schedule another call here in the next couple of weeks. That'd be fun. All right? I really enjoy getting to know you, and I'll keep thinking about your awesome new book and how Girls Club can support it. Yeah, I'd appreciate that. So cool. Tell everybody how they can find out more information about you, where to follow you, all that stuff.

Okay? Hey, yeah, absolutely. Join me on LinkedIn, please. Just search for Lauren Bailey. You can find us at factor8.com, and if you're interested in learning about Girls Club, if you're a female wanting to get into leadership, or if you're a guy who wants to support the women on their team, go to wearegirlsclub.com. Don't go to girlsclub.com at work. That website will get you in trouble. Nice. Wearegirlsclub.com. Wearegirlsclub.com. Fantastic. I'll check it out. Thanks, Jamie. That's cool. Awesome. All right. Well, let's connect again here soon, and look. Hopefully, everybody enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. We did go a little bit all over the place, but that's what I like. Anyways, hopefully, you all enjoyed it.

And like I say all the time, if you do nothing else today, go make somebody smile. There's too much negativity out there. And if you make somebody smile today, then you know you had a good day. You know, it's hard to compete with you, man. I love you. Likewise. Look, have a great day, and everybody make it happen. Thank you so much. Cheers. Cheers. you