125: Setting Yourself Up for Sales Success with Jordan Arogeti

Thank you to our sponsors, LeadIQ, Costello, SalesLoft, WorkRamp, and Dialpad for helping us produce this podcast. Head over to jbarrows.com slash blog for the highlights of this episode and explore resources you can use right away. Let's make it happen. Good afternoon, everybody. This is John Barrows. Make it happen Mondays. Hopefully you're doing fantastic. I hope you had a great weekend. Even though this isn't the weekend, I'm actually recording this one on a Friday. And I think there's a very timely conversation on this one because I am completely spent. But I'd love to introduce you to my guest today, Jordan Arrogetti. I knew I was going to stumble on that, but Jordan Arrogetti from SalesLoft.

Jordan, you want to say hi to everybody? Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me, John. Yeah, thanks for jumping on. And Jordan, this is a, like I said, this is a little bit of a timely one. We were just talking before we jumped on here about, you know, there are some weeks are better than others as far as, you know, sanity and what we do and not feeling completely burnt out. This one for me, definitely, I'm looking forward to the weekend. And I usually don't say that. I usually, you know, I love what I do. And Fridays, I'm not like celebrating Fridays. So now I can actually have fun and I don't hate Mondays, right? But man, this one I'm getting killed on. So the topic that we're going to chat about is kind of that proverbial work-life balance, right?

And before I got into that, though, walk me through a little bit of your background because you're one of the top performers at SalesLoft. You're absolutely crushing it. You run a few other things like, what is it, CloseHer, right? So you're co-founder of CloseHer. So could kind of walk us through how you started in sales and where you are right now, just because I think that's going to give some really cool context to the conversation today. Yeah, sure. So as you mentioned, I've been with SalesLoft for actually close to over four years. So I've been really, it's been a really exciting, I've been a part of this really exciting journey and this rollercoaster of growth, which is both good timing and luck, which is life.

Actually, can I pause you there for a second? Sure. Do you believe in luck? I believe in luck, but I still believe in skill. Okay. And I think that, again, I think it's more a combination, perhaps not of luck, but a combination of skill and good timing that lead to luck. Yeah, there you go. So you still have to have the proverbial intangibles to do, to be very good at your job. You have to show up every day. You have to have the right attitude. But, you know, sometimes you just, I picked a good one and I'm very fortunate and I know that. And I know that not everyone that's starting out their sales career picks the right company, but I was fortunate enough to see enough in the company and take a gamble and that gamble paid off.

Yeah. And what did you see? Because you went from, let's see, I'm looking at your profile here. You went from, you went to University of Georgia, right? And then you got into IMG with a sales inventory coordinator and license manager. And then was it, then it was just straight up sales loft, right? So that's the majority of your career. So what was it about sales loft? Because I think that's an important thing. I think a lot of kids, when they're looking for jobs, they just look for jobs. Like, hey, I don't like a sales job. And what do I, you know, let me throw my resume out to a bunch. What was your approach when you were looking for, and what caught your eye about sales loft that, that made you say, this is where I want to take my next part of my career.

Yeah. So I had an incredible experience at IMG and sport marketing and licensing. I'm named for Michael Jordan. So I, I, my whole life I was. You are? I am. Oh, that is that. So he's my, so I can't see it. It's my office. I got his autographed basketball. I got his shoes back there. Like he was hands down, hands down the ghost name every, every day here at sales loft. Um, so for me, I, my whole, my whole kind of childhood leading into high school, leading into college, my whole thought was sport marketing, sport marketing, sport marketing. I was going to sell major sponsorships. I was either going to do that or be an agent or in some way, shape or form be in the sports world. And while IMG afforded me incredible experiences, field access, player access, all of these great experiences, what I realized is that I really wasn't all that fulfilled.

And a lot of that was, was financial. And a lot of it was autonomy, uh, which I realized more and more as I got older was, was very important to me. So I was, I was looking to make a transition from away from IMG. I was consulting with a lot of folks and several people suggested, well, why don't we get into sales, which quite frankly frightened me because the concept of sales and the, the, you know, the, what we talk about all the time, the old, the old dirty car salesmen, you know, these personas that for some way, for some reason rather have become this stereotype of salespeople that intimidated me, especially as a woman, but not just because I'm a woman. Um, and then a good friend of mine, um, same Steven Trumpeter, I give him all the credit in the world for helping make an introduction to sales office that, you know, I think you'd be incredible in tech sales there.

It's incredibly woman-friendly. They, you know, it's a community that's very forward leaning, uh, software sales understands, you know, this idea of diversity and balance. And I really think that you would be better off if you start at a smaller company that has funding, but a smaller company, nonetheless, that's willing to take a risk on someone that doesn't have direct sales experience, but sees potential. And so I met with sales loft over 40 years ago. And I said, look, you know, I don't have direct sales experience. I've never had a quota. I've never looked at Salesforce dashboard, but I can promise you that I'm going to work really hard. I'm going to bring the right attitude and you won't work at it.

And they, they took a gamble on me. And the reason why I believed in them so much, but had a lot to do with leadership and a lot to do with Kyle. Uh, it had a lot to do with Derek and what I saw in him and the people that were interviewing me, it just felt so natural. And I felt I was really being myself. I, I wasn't, it didn't feel like an interview. It felt like I get to, I got to just have a conversation and knowing where I was in my life. I started at sales off a week after I got married. So it felt like this like perfect chapter, this beginning of a new chapter. And I wasn't, you know, again, I picked a, I picked a winner and they've cultivated me certainly. Um, and I'm so grateful for the skillset that I've developed here.

Um, but it just always felt right. And sometimes you just got to go with your gut and it's not a lot of data. It's just that feeling inside of you that says, you know what, this, this feels like where I should be. Yeah. Now. And do you, cause I talk a lot about values, right. And, and making sure that you can align your values with your organizations, with the people you work with and those types of things. Do you have a pretty clear or, or where, and if the answer is yes to this, um, which I'm assuming it is, uh, like when in your life did you start to solidify them? Like from a value standpoint, do you have a really clear picture of what your values are like core beliefs and values? And, and was there a point in your career where you started to really kind of align, you know, making sure that as you were making decisions, you were aligning with those core values?

Certainly. And, you know, it's interesting, like, you know, my husband and I talk about values all the time, but they're not necessarily things that we subscribe to in a written form. Right. It's kind of, we, we both came from solid families and we knew the, we knew that the values of, of family, of education and, and in general and of relationships. And to me, that's kind of always been my, my guiding, my kind of my, my light. And while I don't have like specific core values that I say, Oh, if you don't do X, Y, and Z, it's still one of those things that I'm, I'm looking, I'm a relationship builder. Or I'm looking for relationships that I can take and have forever. And that's my favorite part about sales is sales is just an extension of, of the relationships that I have outside of work that become friends or become, you know, really important to me.

And for me, sales life and what I felt and I experienced in the interview process. And then throughout my tenure here is, you know, these people are going to be my life forever. And I love that. I love that because they, my colleagues, my, I work with a lot of men that I love and, and I'm now a mother and they're like uncles to my, to my kid. And my, my husband can't find anyone to golf with them anymore. So they, he golfs with my colleagues and nothing makes me happier than seeing that synergy and that integration because so much of what, you know, I pour my heart into this job, but it's not my job. It's just a part of my life. And I think that leads to this conversation, right. Of, of the, kind of the, the, the topic we, we decided to jump into, which is, you know, the work-life balance.

And what is, can I, let's start with what is your philosophy on work-life balance? I mean, family, you know, work, I mean, I mean, you've been extremely successful and that does not come with a nine to five scenario, right. And so let's talk, let's talk about what is kind of your overall philosophy of work-life balance. Because I know I got mine, but I'd love to hear yours. Yeah, no, I mean, it's interesting. It's changed, right. It changes and it evolves with where you are in your life. So when I came out of college and I was living in New York, working for IMG, you know, work-life balance was very much work and life. And that was the grind. Then I moved back to Atlanta where I'm from originally, again, got married, started my job here.

And what I realized is that the most important relationship that I have is, is with my marriage. And, and that boundary was very important to me. Um, so for me, what it became is instead of this work-life balance, it did become an integration and became, if I'm going to have to take work home, what you always have to do in sales, you know, we are always going to be available to our customers, our prospects in some way, shape or form, you know, that has to be something that you enjoy. And that has to be something that your whole household is supportive of. Now, certainly that doesn't mean, you know, that means for me, still, I pick up, I leave here around four o'clock and from, you know, four o'clock to call it seven 30, I am off, you know, you won't hear from me.

And that's time that I do reserve. But, you know, like we've talked about before, once my son goes down, I'm right back on and I'm okay with that. That's just, that's just the nature of my business and how I, how I run my operation. So that's kind of how I look at it today. But again, I've, that's evolved over time. When I first got married, I didn't care as much about those boundaries because all I, the boundary I set was, I'm not going to go to every happy hour that they, that they offer, right? You don't have to say yes. But then as I became a mother, I realized that those boundaries have to become a little bit more defined or else you were kind of, you're going to drain yourself. Yeah. And I think that's kind of, that's for me, the work-life balance has always been, when people talk about it, I always get a little bit depressed because, well, because to your point, like if you love what you do, they're really, the balance is, is, is in, is inherent in the sense that when people talk to like, when I think a lot of people talk about work-life balance, they talk about working and then living.

Right. And then to me that that's really sad because if you think about it, right, you, you work at least a third of your life, you sleep around a third of your life. So that means if you're talking, if you're genuinely talking to me about a work-life balance, that means you work and then you live. So you're really only living a third of your life. And to me that is so depressing, right? And, and that's, that's why like, if you don't love what you do, like, you know, and look again, to your point, priorities change a certain, and some people do, you know what, suck it up. And I, I'm just going to do this nine to five because it pays for me to go live the life that I want to live with my family, but I am literally off at five o'clock so I can spend all my time.

And those, and that balance is important too, right? Yeah. You don't have to love your job, but you have to have that, that, that segmentation, I guess, if that's the case. And it helps. It helps. I remember someone in college gave me advice and they say, find what you're good at and find what you love. Yeah. And I didn't know I was going to love sales. I didn't know if I was going to be good at sales, but it's turned out both to be true. And that only allows me and empowers me to give more to my, my role here and, and to really everything, because to me, work is still fuel. And even as a working mom, you know, we talk about work-life integration, you know, I, I don't, I can't do it all every day, right?

I just do the best that I can. Rob Foreman, our president and chief strategy officer here gave me some advice very early on when I was at sales law and he told me to read the book essentialism. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that book, uh, author is Greg McHale. And it's all about looking at your life and figuring out what are the, basically the three essential things that are most important to you and building your list of priorities based off of those things, knowing that you're still going to have to say no to really good things. For instance, we had a Habitat for Humanity project here that, you know, there was a list of people signing up for weekends and, you know, all these different things, really, really, really great costs.

And I just had to say no, because it didn't align to the priorities that I have at this moment. Does that make me a bad person? No, but I know what enriches me. I know what I need as fuel on the weekends and in my evenings so that I can give a hundred percent. Because what happens if you spread yourself out too thin, then, then all the things start kind of falling apart. And that book really, I kind of, I'll reread and revisit that book every once in a while, especially again with the, with the kid and dog and house and all these things, because it is important to remind yourself that saying no is okay. When, when we're, there's gotta be some times where you do kind of feel like where I am right now, like, holy shit, right?

Like, like, what do you do to kind of, to cope with that feel like where you are overwhelmed, you know what I mean? Because as a mother, as a, as a wife, you know, you know, as a leader in your organization, like there's a point where like, I don't know about you, but I, I, I'm like, okay, I, I'm about to fall apart here. How do you handle that moment? Yeah. Uh, that, that moment happens a lot. Tell me, I know. Yeah. And, and for me, honestly, it's, it's taking a day off. Yeah. Believe it or not, like you, sometimes you can't just supercharge your way through that. You know, there's all these books and there's all these studies about the, the value of recovery and rest, right? The best athletes in the world.

I'm a huge sports fan. The best athletes in the world understand the value of going really, really hard, but then allowing yourself to decompress. So as a mother, especially what that means is giving yourself time, not just time at home with your family, because we all know that is work. Yeah, exactly. It's work, uh, despite, you know, any, what anyone believes. And that means asking someone to watch your kid for a night or a day and allowing yourself to get centered. And for me, that's going to the park, it's going on a walk, it's going, doing some exercise related thing, or it's just getting lost in watching sports and just decompressing because then you, you kind of, it helps you reprioritize things.

It helps you relax a little bit and it makes you appreciate what, what you do have and have a little bit more gratitude and then you come back to it. But the, the idea of rest and recovery is not one that people should roll their eyes at. It's, you know, it's why I laugh when I see people on LinkedIn that are working on the weekends and all that. And like, I get that. And I, and I appreciate the people that, that, you know, want to hustle like that, but at the same time, there is a burnout. And, and I, to me, the people and the leaders and the athletes I respect the most are the ones that take time to really, and respect that recovery time. Yeah. Yeah. That's, and even if it's just, I mean, for me, even if it's just a, like a night, you know what I mean?

Like a good date night with your spouse. Yeah, exactly. That can be so rejuvenating. It's, it's, it's funny, my wife and I, so it's her birthday coming up, uh, next week and, um, what's that? Oh, nice. Cool. What's the date? What date? The ninth? Oh, she's, uh, she's on the fourth. It's nice. Um, so, and, and it just came up like my daughter is having a sleepover on Saturday night and it was like out of nowhere. And I was like, oh man, great. And so we were thinking about like, how can we take advantage of this? And both of us just looked at each other because we both run our own businesses. We both, you know, work out of the house and you're like, how about we just sit in the house and do absolutely nothing?

And she's like, that sounds like a fantastic idea. I'm like, all right, I'll, you know, I'll get some steaks, I'll cook some stuff on the grill and then literally, exactly. Right. So I, like, I literally can't wait for that, but, and you know what, I challenge you even more though. Like this is one rule that we try to make when, when we have date nights or even like quick vacations is don't talk about your kid the whole time. You know, like, don't talk about work, like connect on a deeper level, connect on something else because that's your time. And to your point, work is already going to occupy the majority or a third, as you say, of your life. Don't allow it to, or try not to allow it to, to try to put boundaries there too.

Well, and that, I mean, that brings up another good point with it. Like with your husband, how, like, I think there's a lot of people who get into relationships early, right. And they get married and then one goes in one direction and the other goes in another, right. Where one might be like crazy work, passionate about what they do, where the other one is maybe a stay at home, whether it's a mom or a dad, it doesn't matter. Like, like, how have you, do you, is your husband on the same, like, was that when you first met and those type of things, were you guys similar mentalities as far as what you wanted out of life and those type of things? Or have you had to have those conversations of, Hey, this is where I, this is what my goals are.

This is what I'm trying to accomplish. This is what you're like, please respect that. You know what I mean? Cause I, I've seen a lot of people right now, um, struggling with the fact that they're passionate with what they do, but their, their, their spouse isn't necessarily, I don't want to say not supporting them, but is frustrated because they're working too hard or whatever it is. So how have you kind of managed that with your husband? Yeah. I mean, I think for, for us, it was always, it's always great chemistry, always saw the world the same way, which makes things infinitely easier. Um, and I, I, the thing that I, I love the most is, I mean, for, for us, you know, he saw more potential in me than I knew that I knew that I had.

And he was always incredibly supportive of, of my career and wanting to see me grow because he knew just how much potential I had. And so for us, it's how can we support each other, but it's not always 50, 50. And I think that's, what's important. Yes, it should, it should always add up to a hundred, but there's, it's not always, I'll give, you know, I can do this and you do this. Sometimes you need to give 80 because the only person, the other person can only give 20. And, and I think that you have to have in all relationships, a solid, uh, foundation for communication. Um, and I think so often people, you know, hide or are passive around how they're feeling or how they're doing both at work and at home.

And the truth is, is the sooner you get all that stuff out, the quicker you can resolve things. So for us, that's kind of been our, our whole thing is if something's on your mind, just say it because if you don't say it now, two days from now, the laundry is not done or the dishwasher isn't unloaded, it's going to become this catastrophic fight that didn't ever need to become that. But it's just stress that's boiling up over time. It has really nothing to do with one another. It could be a work related, it could be a deal that I'm working or I'm just really frustrated. And if you don't have that open channel of communication, it's just never going to work or it's not going to be as fulfilling as it could be.

Yeah. And that also translates to work too, right? I mean, with your managers and your boss and that type of stuff, I mean, with, with what you're doing over at sales loft, I mean, I've always said, sales loft, you know, I, I never want to, I'll never work for any company ever again. I'm, I'm a pain in the, I'm an, I'm unemployable, right? Cause I'm way too much of a pain in the ass. But, but if there was a company, uh, that I, that I would actually go work for it, it would be sales loft. And it's because of the culture that Kyle has created there. Um, what are some of the things that, that, that you find unique about sales loft that is, that has supported you in your career as a, as a mother, as a woman, uh, and then just as a general business professional there, what are some of the things that you see that they're doing that is really keeping you connected and, and motivated to stay for four years?

I mean, cause quite honestly, four years is that the odd thing, the sad thing is, is four years is a pretty long time to stay at any individual company these days, especially in sales. Right. So what are they doing that, that, that's, uh, that you find is, you know, other companies should be doing more of, I guess. Yeah. And this is a great question. Uh, and I kind of look at it from a couple of, of perspectives. When I started at sales loft, we were still a very young company and they were really trying to get, not anyone, but they were, it was, you know, it was, it was difficult to get talent in the door. It was a brand new company. Yes. We had series a, but you're still trying to gain credibility.

So they, again, they can take risks on, on people like myself, but what they did was they create a culture and an environment where you love going to work and you love working hard for people. Well, fast forward, you know, about, I guess a year and a half ago, you know, I get, I get pregnant and I'm expecting, and I remember talking to Kyle and talking to a few other folks internally. I was the first salesperson to be pregnant and that came with a little, and that came with a lot of trepidation because, you know, I've never seen this company kind of deal or handle something like that. And part of the reason why I feel I've been so successful here at sales loft, it's not just because I'm good at my job and I work really hard and I'm good at building relationships.

So much of it is that I have a company here that understands where I'm at in my personal life and they've met me where I'm at. And I think that's what sales loft and what so many companies have to realize what's important to your employees two or three years ago may not be what's important to them now, particularly top talent, right? You have to be able to identify your top talent and you have to say, what can we do to cultivate them? What can we do to continue to develop them and give them the things that they're are going to make them feel fulfilled? I'm going to talk about that a lot. There's a difference between being happy and being fulfilled. And with that, and to be more specific, what I was most impressed by was the maternity leave policy.

And 12 weeks paid, year supply of diapers, meals to the home, cleaning service. So not only did they support me while I was out, they really understood what was going to get me to be really, really excited to come back. And it's why I'm having all my babies here. I'm pregnant again. Oh, congrats. I didn't know that. Congrats. So expecting again. But my point is, is so often, you know, we get confused with company culture being ping pong or pool tables or free lunches and free gym workout memberships. It's like, okay, that may get you in the door. That may get a good candidate in the door, but that's not what that's going to retain you. And I think that is the difference for me as they have found a way to be supportive of folks like myself and albeit I am a minority, but they know that it's, it's good for them.

It's good for the community that we're leaders in the Atlanta community from this, from this standpoint. And you've got people like myself that can't wait to come back. When you say minority define like why are, when you say you're a minority in what regard? I just mean in the sense of, you know, there's not a lot of companies that I see. Here in the Atlanta techs, not just the Atlanta tech community in general that have taken this approach. I mean, this is a very modern way of viewing people in the workplace. And I think, you know, one of the things that gets lost and I think it's super important is when you have a baby, this doesn't just affect the woman, right? You're super passionate about your family, about your daughter, quite obviously, right?

In the book and everything that's going on. And I think what they've done a brilliant job of is also giving benefits to men and allowing them to have the same thing. And you have to remember, again, we're in a different world now. It's not that the man is working and the woman stays home, but that also means that there comes an emotional turbulence for the man too. And so to ignore, you can't just focus on your women. You have to focus on your men too, your dads too, that are also trying to strike a balance. And that is so critical because, you know, in today's world, we're hearing a lot about women and women in sales and diversity and the workplace. But that doesn't mean you can ostracize the 50% of folks that are men that are also fathers or may want to be fathers.

How are you going to support them? Because again, likely there's now a working mom on the other end that's trying to figure out how they can do both or have it all. And knowing and understanding those dynamics are so important. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, you know, the thing, you know, as a, as a man, right. I mean, obviously I don't, I'm very cautious on what I, um, complain about, right. Because I've been very fortunate in my career, uh, for, in a lot of ways, right. I've been fortunate in this since I was born to two parents that still are married and love each other. And I was given a great, you know, and they paid for my college, you know, so all that stuff. And I'm a, I'm a white guy.

You know what I mean? Like I've never been, I've never been, uh, There's nothing you can do about it. Well, yeah, but I've never, I've never been discriminated for anything. Like almost everything I've ever done, I've been promoted for as opposed to judged for. Right. But I'll tell you right now, you know, the, the guilt and like for my daughter, the hardest thing, and I've always said this. And one of the reasons I wrote that book with my daughter was because the hardest thing I have to deal with is, is literally leaving is, is, you know, with traveling is, is getting on that plane. And I tell people, you know, I spend the first hour to two hours when I leave the house, um, and I do all the routines with my daughter.

You know, we got this nice little secret handshake that we have and, you know, we do FaceTime and all that other stuff. But, you know, the first two hours of me getting on in that Uber and getting on that plane is as close to depression as I get, you know, I don't, thankfully I don't get depression. You know, I don't, I, I'm, you know, I've been blessed with not having the addictive personality and not having to really the, the, the science behind depression. Like that doesn't affect me, but you know, so I can't say I know what depression feels like, but it's about as close as depression as I get every time I get on a plane. And I, you know, but the perception is, Hey, you know, guy out there charging hard, whatever, like, you know, whatever, you're the dad, just go make it happen type of stuff.

And those emotions shouldn't, you know, you, you, you shouldn't be able to show, have to show those emotions. But, uh, you know, that, that's the part of, to your point, if I worked for a company and they didn't respect that and, and respect that the stress that it puts on the other side of the equation, you know, it'd be hard for me to stay at a company like that. Right. Yeah. And, and again, it's, it's one of those things that I always, when I look at the landscape of company, it's not just in Atlanta, but beyond, it seems to such a, such an easy thing to fix. And I get, there's, there's finances and money and investment that goes into that, but it makes a huge difference. And again, one of the things I'm most impressed with at sales love specifically, if you look at the tenure on the sales team, over, over 12 of us have been here for years.

Yeah. That's incredible. Unheard of on the sales and a sales department and a growing software company. So that just goes to show you. And it's interesting while I may have been, you know, the trailblazer and having children, so many of my colleagues, their wives are now expecting, or, you know, so I'm seeing my, my friends who, you know, feel like family kind of coming into this new chapter and I know they're going to be okay. And it doesn't mean it's not going to be easy. It's not easy. None of this is easy. No. And you're going to have days like the day or the week that you're having. Yeah. And at the same time, I know that I'm, I'm going to get myself out of it. Yeah. So I think that, that, that part is really important for companies to hear is yes.

Focus on your women, your women. Definitely go to the physical and emotional trauma. Hormones are a real thing. I always say that, but your men, your men now are, are in different relationships than existed 10, 15, 20 years ago. It's just completely different dynamics. Yeah. And I think a lot about it's perspective too, right? It's like, you know, and I think this goes to my, the way I handle stress to a certain degree is, you know, I always try to realize that no matter how bad my day goes, right. I mean, I could legitimately have the worst day of my life and it still ain't that bad compared to most, most, I mean, literally, I mean, I used to watch the news a lot more than I do now. Now it's just, I just get angry, but, but I used to watch the news for one very specific reason.

And it was because all I would have to do is, you know, I, you know, I'd have a terrible day. I'd get yelled at clients. I'd lose a huge deal and blah, blah, blah. And then I'd turn on the news and I'd watch some kid out and, you know, somewhere in the middle East and they'd be frightened because there was a drone over their head. And I'd be like, Oh. That's not bad. Yeah. Hmm. Maybe so. And, and especially in sales, right? I mean, yes, it is a stressful job, but at the end of the day, like human lives are not at risk with what we do. Right. I mean, not even remotely close. So if you don't get that, if you lose that deal, yeah, it sucks. If you, you know, if you, if you, if you don't get to that proposal to the client by the right time, like, okay, but just take a breath, right?

No, completely. And, you know, to that point, you know, I am an extreme competitor, but I always remember my dad tells me a story of a gentleman that he knew really, really well, passed away probably over a decade ago, very accomplished businessman, great husband, wonderful father. And on his gravestone, all it said, it said his name and all this, the dates. And it said, I did my best. I love that. And I think that so often, you know, especially when you're juggling, not just work and you're juggling parenthood and whatever other things, you know, everyone has their stuff. Right. Can you say at the end of the day, I did my best. And if you can say that, then you just have to accept that and try to be better the next day.

But I try to remind myself on whether it's a deal or just a bad day, or I'm not feeling like a good mom and I was late to daycare or he's driving me crazy. And I just like, can't wait for it, you know, for me to drop him off at my in-laws, you know, at the end of the day, I'm a human. And can I say I did my best? And I think that that's more something that we should all try to kind of center ourselves on. Because you can, when you do your best, you do, you do a lot of good things. Exactly. And, and, you know, I'd layer on top of that, do your best for the right reasons. Right. You know what I mean? Like for, like for genuinely the right reasons that, and that's why sales, you know, we started the conversation with the perception, right?

Of you, when you got in from IMG to sales and you're like, uh, you know, the perception is, is that, that people are sleazy and slimy and all that other stuff. But really genuinely sales is, that's not anything about what sales is. Like all that perception stuff. Yes. Okay. No question about it. There's a portion of our population that are sleazy, you know, Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, bullshit assholes, stuff like that. But the vast majority of people, we're just trying to, you know, make the connections and help people out. I mean, that's really ultimately what sales is, right? Is, is solving problems or helping people achieve their goals. And that's why I can always sleep at night. You know, even if I do offend somebody, you know, even if I do every once in a while say something and I just am talking like in general in life, I just, I know ultimately my intentions are right.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm not trying to screw somebody. I'm not trying to, you know, fuck somebody over or whatever it is. And so with that, you know, yeah, I might say something a little off color. I might insult you because I said something that I probably didn't think of before that came out of my mouth. Right. But at the end of the day, it wasn't coming from a malicious standpoint. And that to me allows me to go home and sleep at night and feel like, okay, sorry, but at least I'm not trying to be an asshole here. Right. Yeah. And look, in this world, you're going to offend everyone somehow. Yeah. Yeah. And if you can sleep at night and you know that that intention was a good one or it wasn't malintention, then that's all that matters.

I love it. So let me, I want to shift a little bit to talk about CloseHer for a little bit, if you don't mind. What is, first of all, what is CloseHer and why just started? Yeah. So I'll kind of start with the why first. So I was at SalesLoft my second year selling. And at the time, we just didn't have many females on the floor. And I thought, well, this seems a little bizarre. And I was, I wasn't yet pregnant, but I was kind of looking for more outlets to talk to the female counterparts as it relates to how they're dealing with things, how they juggle things. Again, women were, were different animals. We balance different, different emotions and we process things very differently. And I went on LinkedIn and I wrote this long LinkedIn post about how I wanted to connect with more women in sales in the community.

I wanted to meet them. I wanted to learn from them. I wanted to share experiences, roadblocks, things like that. And I had a great friend named Kara Brown who commented on the LinkedIn post and she said, well, you know, don't do this in a conversation form. Don't do this in a private form. Like let's make this a public forum because she believed like, like I ended up believing that there's a lot of us out there that feel very small or feel like the minority when in fact, maybe we're not the minority. But all we have to do is bring these people together to create this community and Closer was born. And what I love about Closer is it's a group for women, not exclusively, you know, if men want to come and learn a little bit more about what women experience or what we think and how we process things, they can certainly be a part of that discussion.

But it's about creating events on a quarterly basis. We do a lot of events here in Atlanta. We have we have a lot of events in New York. We've gone to Austin. We're doing things in San Francisco and we create these topics and topics that we want to learn about, that we want to hear about things like compensation, things about balancing motherhood and sales, things about hiring. How do how do we stand out? And it's it's not necessarily an empowerment movement, but it's more to give people a reminder that there is a community out there that can support you. And it's quite inspiring. And every time I leave a Closer event, I remind myself, wow, like this is this is real. And there's people that see a lot of value in this.

And and I'm one of them. And that's so fun for me. And it's become a part of, you know, sales office, obviously, incredibly supportive of it, but it's my my side project that I work on. And it's been so fun. And I get to meet so many incredible women and all different leadership stacks, you know, stacks. And what you realize is someone may have 25 more, 25 more years of experience in sales, but they're still learning and they're still growing and they're still balancing their own stuff. And we want to hear those stories. Well, so what are, you know, for the men out there listening, right? What are some of the things that you've been able to uncover with this group that that men can because I've always said, you know, I had that we need to talk webinar and all those other things that I was that I actually felt uncomfortable being kind of again, the 40 year old white man having this conversation, but also using my platform to help elevate the conversation.

You know, there, I think there's a lot of men out there who are, who are empathetic. They, they, they genuinely support women, but don't necessarily know that they might be doing some stuff that, that isn't supporting them. So I guess what, what would some of the things that you'd say that some men can do within organizations who are kind of going about their day because, Hey, I'm doing my thing. Right. And not necessarily being conscious of it, but you know, you, you know, it's a little bit, there's other things that we could be doing. Is there stuff that tactically like a guy within the organization, like at Salesforce, for instance, could proactively look for or do that would help, uh, elevate all of us?

Yeah. I mean, I think it's all about creating dialogue, right? You know, we're, we're all so quick, everyone, everyone's so quick to make assumptions. Oh, this person's doing this because of this, or she's not doing well because of why, you know, we're all, we're all have a lot of layers to each other. So I think it's, it's figuring out the best mechanism for your, for your, uh, company or for your organization to open up that dialogue in a very constructive matter. Right. And what we want to prevent is this, you know, we're this, uh, opportunity where people are just kind of complaining, right? We don't want to just complain, right? We're trying to find results. Everyone's looking to find constructive feedback so they can build a better company for, for all of their employees.

And I think there's like a few different ways that I've seen it manifested. So some for some, and it's, it can be a combination, right? So sales off, there's now a women's integrated networks. So there's like a group that meets once a month, they have different, um, conversations, things of that sort, but then it allows women to kind of share maybe some things that they're feeling or expressing, which is also a really great way for the company to get a pulse on how are, how are people feeling? But if that is too extensive, look, surveys are a real thing, you know, you can get and do a very good pulse check on your employees as a whole, and then parse out your women specifically to say, how are women feeling in relation to men?

How are your most tenured employees feeling versus the people that just started? And then if you're a really small company, it's just having a conversation and, and, and that's where trust comes into it. That's where the hiring process is so important, right? You should feel comfortable expressing how you're feeling to someone. If you have a tactical and kind of compassionate way of sharing those things. And I think that alone, that lending of their hand to want to listen is in and of itself, the best next thing you, a person can do. Yeah. And I think you said something important there too, which is, you know, don't assume malintent in the sense that like, look, an overt, everybody knows what overt sexism is, right?

Like you can like that. It's like, all right, fuck you. You know what I mean? Like that, and, and, and when we had that webinar, like there were some questions that women had that were like, Hey, what do I do where I have just this straight up sexist boss that is talking to me? And I'm like, quit, literally quit and go find another job. Cause you're not ever going to change that, that person. You know what I mean? You're just not. Um, but it's the, it's the little things. It's the, it's the guys who've been grown up in a culture where certain things are just normally accepted. Right. And, but the, you know, the, I'm, I always try these days to just seek to understand, right? Before I chastise somebody for what they did or how they acted or what they said, take a step back and say, Hey, you know, can, can we have a conversation about that?

Right. And this is how it made me feel or this, can I under, can I, can you clarify for me what you meant by that? Because then that was like, that opens the dialogue versus attacking somebody for saying something. I mean, right now it's like, we're in such this sensitive world. I think where everybody's so hypersensitive about the smallest little fucking thing that somebody says. And it's just like, give me a fuck. You know what I mean? Like give somebody a fucking chance, you know, over, I mean, people are like careers are being ruined because somebody said something that they thought was funny and it maybe wasn't, you know what I mean? Or, I mean, I, I even go back to, let's talk about Atlanta, you know, sports in Atlanta.

I mean, and, and I'd be interested in your perspective on this. Um, Michael Vick. So Michael Vick. Okay. One of the most incredible football players I've ever seen in my life. Right. He, he was, he was, uh, he had dog fighting, right. Which is awful, which is absolutely awful. Right. Making dogs beat up. But that's the culture he grew up in as a child. Right. I don't want to excuse it. Okay. But he got his, his, literally his entire career was ruined because PETA and all these dog, you know, people like, as opposed to being like, well, wait a minute, this kid grew up since he was a kid, seeing dogs fighting and thinking that was normal. You know what I mean? Like in his head, dog fighting was normal.

They're animals. You know what I mean? And I get it. Some people look at animals as, you know, as kids for crying out loud, but whatever. But what, like, what's your thought on something like that? Like something as stream as Michael Vick and something as bad as what he did. But I'm like, my thought is, fuck man. Like he did not deserve what he, what happened to him. So, uh, obviously I'm very familiar with the Michael Vick story and being a very disappointed Buckets fan year after year. Yeah. Sorry about that, by the way. Um, I'm surprised you didn't sneak in like a 28th and three. I just said sorry about that, by the way. No, I mean, I, I completely agree. And, and, and that's one thing. I mean, I think we share, it's kind of this, this outlook that look, we, we all make mistakes and we're all a product of our upbringing, right?

The majority of people that end up in therapy or in therapy because of things that they experienced in their adolescence that shapes literally everything. And I think, you know, you talk about it from a sales component, right? We could tie this into sales content versus context. Exactly. Okay. So someone like him does something really, really bad. Like for some people, it's just completely unimaginable. But if you have context to realize what shaped and what framed those behaviors, I'm not saying it's excusable, but it allows you to approach someone with a little bit more empathy. And I think just in general, it's just, it's just, it's just, it really kind of kills freedom of speech and it kills democracy in some ways because people are living off a soundbite.

They're living off a taste, living off a taste, living off a taste, living off a social media. And just, and that, that translates in the workplace as well, right? Because what happens is, you know, you know, you're not going to be able to do that. You know, you're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. As a whole, it's so important to know what you're getting as a whole, not just as a sliver of that person's profession. Now I get for some people, that's really uncomfortable. And that's a really difficult shift from the mindset of, well, what have you done in the last five years in sales?

And what are your numbers? But you have to understand the backgrounds in which people come from that will kind of give you an idea of how they approach life, how they approach sales, how they approach relationships in general. And I think the Michael Vick one is a good example, but, and I think it ties in really nice with the things that you talk about all the time with content versus context, because in life, it's all about context, period. You cannot take things just black and white anymore, especially not now, especially with all the fake stuff and not being credible. And it's very hard to understand what is real and what's not, which is why it requires, frankly, more work. Human, you might always hear that sales and life, you know, robots, I don't buy into any of that because you lose so much context.

You lose so much understanding of the full picture. If you rely solely on data and solely on what someone says, there's so much more there. And I really challenge people to think about that in their everyday lives, as well as in the workplace. And just stop reacting. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's the, it's like, just take a second, just take a breath before you send that email, before you tweet, before you post, you know, any of that stuff. Even with clients, you know, a very micro example on this one is when clients ghost, right? Like, I used to get so pissed off at clients that after, like, especially, you know, and I don't mean after like an initial cold call, right? I mean, like, I mean, like, right, like, somebody said they're going to do business with me and then poof.

And I remember vividly, I was so mad at this guy for ghosting me. I was like, who do you think, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I wrote him this, like, just basically a F you email. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you said all this stuff. And he gets back to me. He's like, yeah, sorry, John. My kid's been in the hospital for the past three weeks. So I haven't exactly been up to date on my emails. And I'm like, holy shit. I'm like, what kind of a fucking asshole am I? You know what I mean? Like, oh my God. So, so now, you know, lead with empathy. You know what I mean? Like, just realize that that person that cuts you off while you're driving to work and gives you the finger and gets all mad at you, they might have had some real heavy shit happen to them that morning that you'd have no idea about.

That client who hangs up on you or tells you, you know, that type of stuff, again, they might just be taking it out on you because their home life is a mess and, you know, that type of stuff. So I don't know. I just, I just wish people were more willing to, or less willing to react and more willing to understand. But to your point, unfortunately, it takes, it takes more time. It takes, it takes effort to do that. And, and it's, it's hard to put that effort in when you're trying to put in the effort into everything that you're trying to do. You know, it's like, I get it, but man, I wish people would fucking take a breath. So anyways, so Jordan, uh, we're going to cut this because we've got about a few minutes left here, but, um, this has been an awesome conversation.

I really appreciate you coming on board. I enjoyed it. It's been a lot of fun. And, and, and so what, you know, what are some of the things for the audience here, um, that you'd like to share or, you know, about, uh, what you're doing with CloseHer or Sales Loft or anything that people can connect with you? I mean, what do you want people to know? Oh, you know, I think the first, you know, we talked about a lot today. We covered a lot work, life, sports. Yeah. So you actually, everyone got a very good glimpse of, I think both of us, um, I think, you know, first and foremost, the three takeaways I hope someone has from something, you know, from this is number one, essentialism, you know, learn very quickly what's important to you, what makes you tick and revisit those things because what was important to you a few years ago or even a few months ago may have completely shifted and really take some time to understand those things.

So you can learn to say no to the things that don't align to that, even if they're really, really good, like have a tech community. The second is relationships are everything and your support system is everything. And that doesn't just mean your home life. That means the work place that you go and enter into every single day. I talked about the maternity leave here at Sales Loft, but it's not just that, right? It's that I know I have the support of leadership that is, that does and will continue to understand the ebbs and the flows of just where I'm at dealing with children and dealing with sales and all the things that come with a scaling company. So it's not just relationships with your customers and your prospects and your friends.

It's the relationship that you have with your, your business and your, and your company. And then the third and final takeaway, you know, everyone wants to do it all. And I, I think on social media, I look like I am doing it all. And maybe in some ways I am, but really what I'm telling myself every day is, did I do my best? And, and that's, and those are the three like primary takeaways that I hope people, you know, if you're going to summarize this, that's how I would summarize it. That kind of the intentionality that I came in here with today and in general, I'm always happy to talk to people. I'm very accessible on LinkedIn. So people want to connect with me or find me there. I love meeting new people.

Again, I'm, I'm a connector, I'm a relationship builder. So if I can be helpful to anybody and helping to figure out how to, how to do things better with the company, or if there's a woman or even a man, like we talked about today, that's going through this big life change, you know, let's have that conversation and let's diagnose what, what we can do to put you in a position where you feel good and you're excited because at the end of the day, you can have fun at work. You're going to do really, really well. And life just gets a little bit easier. Yeah. That's awesome. And for those of you wondering, you know, it's Jordan and her last name is A-R-O-G-E-T-I. So you can go find her on, or just type in Jordan Sales Loft and it'll come up in LinkedIn.

Easier than my maiden name. Trust me. My maiden name is Moskowitz. Moskowitz. Yeah, Moskowitz. I saw that. I was like, I'm really good. That one would have had a venture. But yeah, Jordan, yeah. Awesome. I love seeing you and meeting more folks through this opportunity. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Jordan, for coming on. Hopefully everybody enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Awesome. And for those of you out there, as I always say at the end of the day, you know, if you do nothing else today, go make somebody smile. Go make somebody happy. Because even if you had a shitty day, if you made somebody's life a little bit happier, you ended up having a great day. So make it a great week, everybody.

Thank you so much, Jordan. And see you soon. Make it happen. Thanks. Thanks.