159: James Buckley Takes Over!

What's poppin' everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Make It Happen Mondays brought to you by our sponsors, Sales Loft, Gong, Vanilla Soft, Vidyard, Proposify, and Owler. We're doing something a little bit different today and talking to two frontline reps about what they're doing to stand out in 2020. Resources for improvement are in high demand right now, and these reps are leveraging the brand new JB Sales on Demand. These guys are true frontliners and looking to step up their games for different reasons. Let's tune in and make it happen. What's poppin' everybody? Thanks for joining us for an episode of Make It Happen Mondays. I am your host, James Say What Sales Buckley.

You might have noticed that John Barrows is on a much-needed hiatus at the moment. He bought an RV and jumped in it and took his family who knows where. So we're looking to get a little bit of a different episode in your direction today, and we're talking with frontline reps and the results that they're seeing now that they've started training with the new on-demand platform that we released not too long ago. So this is definitely going to be an interesting conversation. We're talking to Steve Pronichin. Steve, did I say your last name right? You got it. You got it pretty much spot on. Pronichin, and it's a lot better than 95% of the people do. Dude, I work really hard on the name thing. That's a big thing for me.

I got bit in the ass once because I didn't get a name right. So I'll tell that story another time. But we're talking to Steve today. Steve has been an account executive slash sales rep for the better part of a decade, if I'm not mistaken. So welcome to the show, Steve. Thanks for coming on. Tell everybody about yourself. Hey, James. Thanks a lot for having me over here. Yeah, so in a nutshell, I've been in sales for close to a decade, as you mentioned. Started off actually in the operations end of it in the mailroom, and then networked my way internally into sales through our corporate softball team. Started off as a researcher on the sales team. Was then promoted as an SDR. So I obviously have all of my own experience generating my own opportunities.

And then made the jump from SDR into a full cycle sales rep onto our mid-market enterprise sales team. And what enterprise meant to our team at the time over there was organizations that have $500 million to a billion dollars in annual revenue and higher. So made that jump, and it's been one heck of a ride. And right now, I'm on the market today looking for my new sales team that I'm looking forward to be a part of and help drive new revenue. So thanks for having me and look forward to our conversation today. Yeah, man, that was a great synopsis of your experience. And I think so many people will probably relate to that journey because we sort of all start in the SDR space. And then it kind of takes us wherever the natural progression might be.

I think it's different for everybody. But the traditional is obviously SDR to AE or full cycle sales rep, depending on the way that your company is structured. I want to get the backstory here. So why don't you start with telling everybody exactly what it is about sales that you love and where it comes from? Yeah, so it's twofold, right? Really. I mean, and I got to sales by accident. So I originally wanted to get into the financial services sector because I have great analytical skills. And I said, you know, I want to be able to have control of my income. I love the whole idea of being, you know, comped on performance. So I'm not somebody who's going to come in here just nine to five and try to get a paycheck.

I want to be incentivized to perform at the top of my game and help contribute to the company. But the two things from a sales perspective that I really like, and this is something that that's different in the financial services model was that one, I really enjoy finding business challenges and helping organizations solve real life pains that they're going through. So I get a lot of satisfaction knowing that, you know, the product that we're helping other people with and how we're helping them address these challenges is making those potential people, their lives easier and also having a real impact on their business. So, I mean, that's first and foremost. And the second one, and this sort of transfers from, you know, originally why I wanted to get into financial services, which was because being able to have that income potential for my family, right?

And I mean, I'm a very driven person. I think if anybody says that they get into sales just solely because they care about people, they're full of it, right? We're also here to make money. So that's what really appeals to me about sales. I love it, man. I think it's so many people fall backwards into sales. We meet so many people that have a similar story about wanting to be in this space, but landing in another or going to college and specializing in something really specific and then coming out of college and saying, oh no, what am I going to do now? I can't get that job I wanted. So I have to find something to do. I guess I'll sell insurance or something to that effect. So we see, we hear this kind of story kind of frequently, I would say.

But we're pleased to have you here. Recently, you signed up for the JB Sales On Demand platform and you got certified. I want to know about the nuts and bolts that drove you to sign up for that and what you want to leverage it for in the future because you're in a kind of a predicament right now or a situation, if you will, that a lot of people are in. And there has been a ton of talk about how people are leveraging resources to be able to find that next opportunity or react to the situation that we're all in and functioning in in 2020. Yeah, absolutely. And this, you know, this isn't been a year that anybody's been able to predict or thought going into. We're all like, 2020 is going to be a great year.

It's got the great ring to it. We're all going to crush it. And 2020 did the crushing to a lot of us. And we're trying to find our way to rebuild and get back on top here. So, you know, what really appealed to me about the certification was, you know, I took, before I even thought about it, you know, getting certified, I just took a step back and said, you know, where am I right now in my life and what's going to help me differentiate? And I said, Hey, you know, I'm on the job market right now. You know, what's going to help me separate and differentiate myself from other job candidates. I was like, well, one, I've got a blank space on my resume and LinkedIn profile around certifications. So I wanted a top notch training program that has a lot of credibility.

When I was looking for something that carried a lot of weight, in my decision. Um, and then I said, okay, what appealed to me specifically about the training was that, you know, you guys were running at the time there on the live cast was the video message training. Yeah. So I'm somebody who always likes to stay on top of my skillset and continuously sharpen it. And I didn't really leverage video messaging in the past, um, in my previous roles. And I knew that this is the way, you know, this is sort of the next step. And I said, well, let me, let me learn something here. This would be a great investment in myself. I'm going to get a certification from, from JB training. Um, I'm also going to be able to learn about the video messaging.

And then I'll also, I don't have to wait for a job to be able to implement these techniques that I learned because I said, I said, shit, I'm going to be able to learn and leverage this right away into my job search. You're prospecting into the job, right? Prospecting into the job. So not only am I learning, but I'm going to actually demonstrate, you know, the skillset that I have in my abilities and take that same approach. So, I mean, don't just look at a piece of paper that I have here, but I'm demonstrating in real life, in real time, how I would go about breaking into an account by breaking into my next, my next potential job with my employer. So this all made sense to me. And I said, you know, this way too, when I have conversations, I could point to, this is what I did to, don't just tell me that you're driven.

Don't tell me, show me. So I put my certificate, this is what I have. And, uh, you know, it was a, you know, you and you and Morgan both put on a phenomenal, phenomenal training session. So kudos to you guys there. And I know I took away a lot from it and I'm sure that a lot of the other, um, folks that participated in it did as well. Man, thank you so much for that. And we appreciate all of the accolades that we get from people, but these are the moments that matter for us. I think is when people take the takeaways that we throw at them and they really leverage them to better their lives. Like we look at this, like both personal and professional development. It's growth on both fronts. If you look at sales as a practice, what you're talking about is a lot of life skills behind this.

How do you negotiate what you want out of life? So the fact that you saw it from that high level perspective, all the way down to that nitty gritty, I'm going to use all of these techniques to get what I want. That is the thing that really resonates with me strong. Um, one of the top questions that people get in interviews is, well, if you were to get this job, how would you go about doing it? Being able to say, say to your, say to that interview, interview person, that hiring manager, that interviewer, well, I would, I would go through this process and here's how I would structure it. And my messaging would look like this. And I would, you know, design cadences that have an omni touch approach, all these different things that you could throw at them because our training has provided you with this knowledge will gain you the experience that you need because oftentimes it's one or the other.

It's knowledge plus experience. And that's a tough thing to find. So I really, you know, big, big kudos to you for taking a step and investing in yourself there. Um, being certified though, that word certified means something different to so many people. Tell me what it means to you to hold some kind of certification that says, I know how to do this job. Yeah. In a word, it means credibility. That's why I got certified. I mean, that's plain and simple. We could elaborate on that, but it speaks for itself. Credibility, getting that, that certification right there. And you know, you're not, there's aren't certifications that are getting handed out to everybody. And for the listeners out there, this wasn't some play and pay model where, Hey, you pay for it.

And all of a sudden you get certified. No, man, we had a legit assessment that you had to take at the end of it. And it wasn't those assessments where, Oh, you got it wrong. Try again. You got it wrong. Try again. You, you don't see the, the correct answers. So it's making sure that you actually retained what was, what you were taught in the, during the training session. And you have to make sure that you retained it and you can apply it back in the assessment and then take that and apply it to your, to your job going forward. I love it, man. I, you know, and there's so many opportunities out there for people to have certifications that don't really have a lot of meat to them. Um, I see that all the time where people will have something there and you're kind of wondering about relevance.

It's interesting that there's a lot of certifications out there that don't tie directly back to the role that they currently have. I think that's an important piece. It's nice to have a certification that says you are a class, a rock climber, you know? Uh, but if you're in sales, then you need to have certifications there that are also sales related. I think the rock climbing thing is important for like a, what I call a macro, something that will pull others to you that also are interested in that, in that practice. But I don't think it's necessarily a certification that needs to be in that section of your LinkedIn. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, it's relative to what you're trying to portray there too.

I mean, rock climbing is great. It's sort of a little minute detail just about who you are, but when you're trying to really present yourself in a professional manner, something that's going to catch the eye of, you know, your peers, hiring managers, potential customers, they want to be able to see what do you bring to table from a professional standpoint, not just, Hey, what are some of your hobbies? So in an interest to sort of help you in this journey, why don't you tell our listeners what you're looking for in your next opportunity specific to how JB sales on demand might provide value to them? Were they to come say, Hey, Steve, I heard you on the, on the make it happen episode. And I would love to get an interview scheduled in the interest of that happening, which would just be amazing.

What, what does that, what does that look like for you? What's the job you're after? Yeah. Hey, thanks, James. So I'm looking for an enterprise account executive, right? Individual contributor role. I'm really looking for, you know, either SAS or managed services and looking for some of the things that I'm looking for as I'm vetting out opportunities. One, obviously need to have a product market fit. That's there. Um, two, looking for solid sales leadership that's at the helm because you know, I've, I've learned a lot, but I'm not done growing by any stretch of the imagination. So while I don't need somebody to micromanage me, I also want to be at an organization that's going to invest in me and help me take my career to the next level as I'm helping contribute to the team and drive new revenue.

Um, and three, if you're looking for a team player who's driven and coachable, I'm your man. I love that. I love that. So listen, if you're out there, Steve has both the knowledge and the experience. And as I said earlier, that's quite the rare find. So thank you for telling everybody what you're after. Um, so I want to dive into the content that you've consumed so far a little bit, um, so far, and I know you've had it for a little while now, so I can only imagine how far you've come with it. We're planning to add a lot there. So keep an eye out and you'll see all the new stuff flooding in as we create more content to add to it. But in your opinion, what's been the most valuable eyeopening perspective, changing nugget that you've pulled out of there and you wrote it down immediately.

I'm like, Oh my God, that changes everything. Yeah. I'm sure there's a few, but what's your favorite? Yeah, there were definitely a few. And I was taking notes as we were going through the training. So one of the things that I didn't originally think of when I thought about video messaging was from the cadence perspective and how to go about it. And that was something that I was really interested in learning about. And I thought, okay, you know, just shoot over the video and you're going to be good. But it didn't appear, it didn't dawn on me that, you know, the best approach might be just the base text email initially. And the reason for that is to make sure that you get through any potential email or spam filters.

And then once you get through, then you can drop the video message. And again, this is, if you're going email, we know that social is a great way too, because it's something different. I know if you're not connected with somebody on social, it was, for me, it was sending that initial email to make sure you're not blocked because you can have a great video message, but if it gets blocked in the spam filter, it's never going to get seen. So for me, it's making sure that that message gets delivered and it gets seen. So that was one key thing that I really took away. And the other one that, that I love, and I don't know if you remember this, but it was when, when Morgan mentioned the wave, right?

It's just kick it off that call, the wave. And I mean, you know, and when I first started shooting it, you do this thing where it's this, this cheesy wave and you're waving your hand back and forth. You just got to get a strong wave, hold it up. And you give a quick little, little motion there and you're good to go because it's the very first thing somebody sees it's welcoming and inviting. And it just kicks the, it kicks the video off strong when you get introduction, the reason for the video message and why you're reaching out to that, uh, to that person. Yeah. I think perspective shifts like that are the things that set us aside from your everyday reps that are reaching out and saying the same things over and over again.

I always ask people, how many emails do you delete before you start your day? And I've, I've never had anybody be like, none. I read everything that comes to me. Some people will say they do that, but I think that most people, if not everyone has this moment in their morning where they start their day and they scan their inbox really quick with their eyes. And what they're looking for is two things. One stuff that I'm not expecting right there. If I'm not expecting it and I don't have a connection with you from the past that triggers in my, in my memory, I'm checking that box to add it to the list of things I'm going to delete. And then the other thing I'm looking for is clearly canned messaging.

Things like, I hope you and your family are safe during this time. That stuff typically gets the checkbox as well. And then I go up to the top and I hit delete. Steve, on average, how many emails do you delete before you start your day? Any, anywhere from, from 10 to 15, you know, it depends on the day. It might be, it might be a light day, but some days just going through it. And like you said, you're looking to see if it's, if it's something that's in there and if it's an unfamiliar email syntax, right away, I'm looking at the subject line. Is this something that was actually, and probably even before I opened the message, I'm like, is this a canned email based on the subject line alone? Yeah.

Or the preview that you can see, right? If you can see the preview, like sometimes you can tell it's canned based on that preview. Um, the video part is the part that I think is really interesting there. So it's great that you brought that up. And that was a big takeaway for you because I think sometimes when we see somebody that's in a video, it's an eye catcher. It's a pattern interrupt. Like Morgan says all the time, pattern interrupts are the things that don't get deleted. They're the things that get opened. The open is like the most important starting point. I got to get somebody to want to talk to me. So thank you for pointing out that. I appreciate it. We talk a lot about goals and we talk about where, what steps are being taken to get to those goals.

So first, what are your top two long-term goals that you've put in front of yourself since 2020 started? Yeah. So top two long-term goals and where I'm at right now. So one, um, you know, landing a new role at a great organization where I can have it, have an impact and contribute to the team to drive new revenue. And then further down the road, um, you know, eventually I want to be able to run my own sales team and pass along the knowledge and experience that I gained to help train and coach the, uh, the people on the team. I love that. Um, so, so far, what are the steps that you're taking to put that stuff together in a way that says, once I get here, I can implement this plan in order to get here.

Yeah. So right now I'm treating my job search like a sales cycle. Right. And I've also had some other, some other great folks help me, help me and sharpen up my approach, um, throughout this process. So, you know, too, too many to list right now, but shout out to all of them. They know who they are. Yeah. You know, so what I've been doing too, is treating it just like if you're breaking into an account, I mean, you're not just going to send one email, send your submit button and be done, right. You're going to go try to identify the appropriate people, which would be for me, it's going to be the hiring manager, uh, maybe potentially somebody on the team. Also somebody in HR, the, the recruiting talent acquisition side.

Yeah. And then be able to, cause you don't want to start reaching out cause you want to keep these messages special. So if you're sending out five, 10 of them, it loses that. And now you're just spamming people. So it's really doing that qualification upfront to identify the appropriate person. So if either I try to do that through my own research, or if I had connected with somebody within the organization, I'll ask for direction because you have the network there. There's no shame in asking. So, you know, let me cut down on a ton of this research and just ask somebody that I know within the organization. It's either going to confirm the person that I already have identified, or it might be somebody else.

And then while I'm doing it too, I can sure go ahead and, and, you know, guess and check and get the right email address, but let me, you know, I'll offer this as, Hey, is this the right email? Can you confirm this? And then sometimes too, that saves down because time's precious, especially in the job search. You can spend a ton of time getting lost in the research phase, finding the correct emails. So what's also helped me is being able to ask for help. And that's something that's been, you know, I look at it as a completely separate skill and that's something that I'm continuously looking to improve on. And you know, you got, sometimes you have to put your pride aside, ask for help and be able to help maximize your, your efficiency, especially when time's a precious commodity and there's a sense of urgency, you know, jobs posted.

It doesn't mean it's going to be posted forever. So you got to get it, get into that account when you can and be able to, um, have that conversation with the appropriate person and share why you'd be able to help be a positive contribution to the team. Yeah. I, you know, I couldn't agree more. And I want to, I want to also put a caveat on that with a little like job search tip for everyone that's out there looking for their next role. Social is a great way to get super deep into a company that you would like to work for. That's how I got this job with a very elite team of sales professionals and trainers. I was very active with them on social consistently leaving thoughtful commentary, always sharing, tagging, liking, commenting, uh, recommending that people check it out, pushing individuals in their direction.

I'm sure lots of folks came to John and Morgan and were like, James Buckley said that I should follow you for advice, right? Like all of that stuff leads to value that you deliver before you even start working for them. It puts you on the radar. So that was really helpful for me. For those of you out there looking for jobs, be sure and be active with those companies that you want to work for on social and support them. And you'll find that you get those interviews much quicker that way. Um, in your experience, when you talk about coming into a new role, we talk all the time about having baked in skill sets. And sometimes those skill sets are full of lots of bad habits from old companies coming in, coming out of the on-demand platform and into a new sales role.

Are there a lot of things that you're going to do differently as a start off employee at a new, at a new role that you might've not considered had it not been for the on-demand platform and the value that it delivered and the change in perspective? Yeah. And that, that's a great question. And the way I look at it, and there's a lot of great takeaways that I took from the course is that whenever I'm implementing change, it's not about, and I already had a, I had a, I'm confident that a pretty solid background coming into this, but when I'm implementing change, it's not about 10 different moving pieces at once. Cause you're moving too many different pieces. It's hard to get it all right. So what I want to do is focus on a couple of key elements, the video messaging being one of them.

Um, and then making sure that as I implement that, then you start implementing more. And this way it's going to ensure that what I have, it's really sticking. It's resonating with me. I'm executing it to the best of my ability and the way that, uh, the way that we've been coached to, to execute it. Right. And then just keep adding other little pieces, uh, to the puzzle from there. Love it, man. Um, we have to, we have to constantly be growing and changing what we're doing. And every time we start a new role, we have to find all those bad habits in our process that we need to remove and replace them with all these new habits that we don't really know if they're good or bad yet. Right. Because we just started at this company.

Um, you put out a video, I'm going to throw you a little bit of a curve ball here. So I hope you're ready for that. But you put out a video that really hit me hard. I watched it a couple of times. Empathy versus EQ. Now I want to tell you, first of all, I want to tell you why this concept that you have is really important to me. I feel like when I first started out, I got those confused a lot because I'm very emotionally intelligent, but empathy is something that can be viewed lots of different ways. So I would often start with, hope you had a great day. Fake empathy, right? When this thing first started, we were all very close to, or some amalgamation of, I hope you're doing okay during this time.

Fake empathy, right? Uh, it comes across the wrong way. Right. Yeah. You're playing it safe. You know, there's nothing. And, and, and I hope, I hope, I hope your family is okay. I don't, I don't know your family. A lot of people. There's so much weird stuff. Yeah. When I saw this video and I thought about the difference between empathy and EQ, it was like this giant black line in the sand that went right through my brain because I never separated them. So first of all, thank you for that. A lesson I learned from you, but also I want to talk about where that came from. Yeah. So where that came from, you know what I mean? I'm, I'm very active on LinkedIn and I saw a lot of people talking about empathy, empathy, empathy, and it resonated to a point with me, but I said, wait a minute here, you know, cause this is still early on in COVID when I released this video for, so, so for some context for everybody out there, this was, um, I believe the video was put out either around April or May when I did this.

So this is when we were still kind of at, at its, at its peak over here and everybody was still trying to pivot and figure out how to do this. And everything was getting flooded with empathy and said, you know what, you know, at the very beginning, then everybody's supporting it. And I said, I'm going to take a step back and think for myself over here and not just follow the masses. I said, at the end of the day, right, we're in sales because we're helping companies solve their business challenges. So you're going to dial into your, your ICP, right? You're not going to focus on small accounts that, or accounts that you might not be able to help with six, 12 months down the road. So your message is still being valued.

It's still going to be valuable. So it's dialing that in, focus on the business challenge and have, if somebody wants to talk and they're opening up to you about their personal life, that's where you pause and you still say, okay, let me have empathy and be able to talk with this person at the level that they want to speak to. But then don't just start leading in. I hope your family and your dog is safe. Cause as you pointed out, you don't, you don't know them and it's going to come off very disingenuous, especially now when everybody's doing it. So it's getting back to the basics. Why am I in this role? I'm in this role to help people solve their business challenges and deliver value where I can help them immediately.

And if I can't help them immediately, they'll tell me. And then you move on to somebody else where you may be to help them. So that's to me is sort of sparked the inspiration for the video was to just, I also want to be the voice out there and say, Hey, don't just listen to all this advice that you're seeing here. And I'm no, I'm no guru or expert, right? But I wanted to take my spin on everything that I was seeing and be able to share with people. And hopefully that helped them spark a little idea in their head that maybe take a little different approach than sort of everything that they were getting spoon fed. Man, it was such an impactful video for me again, because I never looked at it that way.

And I consider myself to be relatively versed. I never consider myself a thought leader or an influencer in the way that other people say, I always say like, you have to let other people call you that. You can't call yourself that you have to let other people call you that. It's okay for other people to call you that. It's not okay for you to call yourself that. So when I saw that, I was very like, Oh man, that is an epiphany for me. So thank you for giving us the origin of that. And I think you're spot on with the way that sales reps need to draw that line of distinction and really recognize the difference between the two. So what's your best advice for people that are currently looking for, for the next thing or people that are in the same boat that you are the same situation.

It's been a year of ups and downs for so many people, and there's a lot of moving around. When you think about the best things that you've learned in this process, going through what you've been through in the last, let's say five months or so, what's the best advice you have for those out there? Yes. And sharing from my own personal experience, the two pieces of advice that I'd like to share with the listeners that may be to help them is one, the biggest thing is leverage your network to be able to get in. I mean, don't, don't just go online and apply. If you could shorten that and circumvent that and get directly to a hiring manager, because you know, somebody within the organization, leverage that, you know, now you also don't have to run the risk of getting rejected by the ATS.

You don't mind making sure that you're getting your name out in front and it's taking a different approach again than the extra, you know, hundreds of people that are flooding their, their ATS and their recruiting team. And the second part is that this is, it's really testing my mindset and my resilience because this is different than your regular, okay, I'm going to work today. I'm getting the rejection and I'm getting the no. And so also saying, don't, I'm doing, working my best and still it's, it's a challenge for me is not to take this rejection personally, moving on to the, to the next potential opportunity and staying positive through all of this, because there's a lot of other things that are tied to finding a new role.

I mean, you have a lot of personal, personal issues and obligations that are tied to this, you know, financially, family, your own, your own, you know, self-esteem. And a lot of people place their self-worth on, you know, where they are in their career and where they are in a particular job. And that's, that's, that could be a slippery slope and on, and quite frankly, unhealthy. So it's trying to see that you're so much more than where you are at any particular point in your career. It's a piece of who you are and it's a part of it. Don't get me wrong, but it's not your collective whole. So being able to differentiate that and still know that, you know, if you're getting told, no, you're still an awesome person, you know, keep moving forward, keep striving to, you know, to find the right place.

And when all the pieces align, it's going to happen, but it's being able to have that resiliency and that mindset to get through this time. And we don't know how long it's going to be. I'd like to say, you know, I'm going to get hired next week. It might be, it might be weeks. It might be months. I don't know. I'm, all I know is I'm going to control what I can and do the little things right each and every day. And then from there, just, just keep plugging along because that's all that I can control. Yeah. That's, that's been a big focus for us at JB sales for a long time. John will often say, and he, you know, he came up with this talking to his daughter, like there's only a handful of things that we can control, but three definites that we have control over our effort attitude and how we treat other people.

So I always try to echo that to people when they talk about mentality and mind frame. Um, and I couldn't agree more with you about having that ability to say, it's not me. It's not my, it's not a personal attack when somebody doesn't want to do business with me, doesn't want to collaborate with me. I mean, I've had many instances where I've said to people, can I use this thing? Can we do this thing together? And they're like, no, it just doesn't align with my brand. It would be a really easy thing for people to take it personally and have it really be detrimental to their attitude, their effort, how they treat other people. Right. But if you constantly look at it, like, no, that's not personal.

And I can move past that. And I'm onto the next one. It's okay. Right. Um, opportunities are in abundance. They only sit there and wait to be uncovered. It's on us as salespeople to go out there and uncover them. So, uh, I appreciate you coming on the show. I want to talk about the best way people can reach you because so often we think that we can go to any social media platform anywhere and reach out to people and they're just going to instantly respond to us. But I know many, many people that have email addresses that never get checked, that have social media platforms they never log into. So what's the best way for somebody to reach out to you and have a conversation with you about one of two things.

One, please come and interview with us. I think you'd make a great fit for our company. Hint, hint, drop the, drop the, the bomb right there. And then at the same time, Hey man, I heard you on make it happen Mondays and I loved what you said and I'd love to get your advice. What's the best way for people to get that? Yeah. So the best way for people to reach out to me and shoot me a connection request here on LinkedIn, drop me a DM. Um, I do my best to check my inbox over there. So if they don't get back to you right away, I'll make sure that, uh, that I'm checking it usually within 24 hours, but that's the best way to get ahold of me. If you're interested in seeing, you know, more of more of my thoughts or other types of material that I put out, you can follow my hashtag at Steve pro keep it nice and simple for everybody there.

And again, James, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate the opportunity to be on here and I have this conversation with you today. Yeah, Steve, it's been a real joy. And I want to say again, congratulations on the recent certification. It's going to take you a lot of places. Uh, and let's, let's stay connected because I'm sure that we have lots of different conversations that we could continue to have that would be beneficial for the community. So thanks again for coming on the show. Everyone out there connect with Steve, follow, like, comment. This dude has been in the game for a long time and has some skin to give out. So you definitely want to connect with him. Who knows where he's going to land for all, you know, he's the perfect prospect for you when he takes over a sales team in the next few weeks, next few months.

So jump in and have a conversation with Steve. I promise you won't regret that. And again, join us, check out on demand.jbarrows.com to see the on demand platform where you can get certified and really stand out in a sea of candidates or sea of sales reps that are out there vying for attention, job opportunities, sales opportunities, or whatever. Um, check out our main website. It's been revamped. John Barrows is one of the quintessential sales trainers of our time. And it's really been amazing to learn from him and sit with Morgan and get these skills. And I'll tell you what, there's too many people out there that need the help today. So we want to hear from you. Be sure and join our Facebook group.

Make it happen Mondays. I'm there all the time and we look forward to everyone's feedback on this episode. Let's get out there and make it happen. What's up everyone. Taking a quick break here to talk to you about the latest project that we're super excited about and is already helping real sales reps get real value and real results. JB sales on demand is our new online training platform that gives you unlimited access to all of our popular courses, videos, webinars, podcasts, live casts, and more anytime. And from any device, we want to give a shout out here to Ben, a sales rep that wrote in to tell us that he went from having three scheduled meetings in a month of May to now having 21 scheduled meetings in the month of July out of the 40 reps at Ben's company.

Ben is now ranked number one in meeting set. That's what we're talking about, Ben. Keep making it happen. So if you're interested in checking out JB sales on demand and seeing real results, just like Ben head over to on demand.jbarrows.com. Let's make it happen all right, everybody. Thanks again for Steve being on the show. We appreciate it. We're going to keep things rolling here and we're going to talk with a young rep that is out for knowledge and experience. Matt Campbell is currently using the JB sales on demand platform and he wanted to be unique and he knows the value of standing out in a crowd. So what did he do? He started using video and Matt's awareness that only a hundred, that a hundred percent of his communication is felt with video is what led him to dive deeper into what videos can do for his prospecting.

Matt, welcome to the show. Tell everybody about yourself. Thank you, first of all, so much, James, for having me. Really excited to be on here. So I guess I'll just start off. Graduated from Michigan State University with a marketing degree technology and went into sales. So I'm a year into my role as a BDR. And I think kind of the reason I got into sales originally, and I'll make this as short as I can here, but when I was like 12 or 13, I started a YouTube channel and I made graphic design videos as well as like motion design. And then I started selling it. I didn't realize that I could actually make money through this. And I think that's looking back at that, that's what started that kind of hunger for making money through a service.

And then I went into marketing from there and I kind of was always confusing marketing versus sales. And I decided, I think, to go into sales more so than marketing just because I've always heard it's something that would serve you really, really well in the long run. Even if you're not that comfortable in it, and I really haven't been, I'm still learning. You know, this has been a pretty rough journey, but I'm glad I'm here. And I'm glad I went through it. So really excited to just continue learning more as a sales professional. That's great, man. It's, you know, it's good to have the distinction between marketing and sales, but it's also great to see how they're similar because so often one of the biggest hurdles that we climb is how do I get sales and marketing to align?

This is especially true in SaaS, but I'd imagine it's industry-wide. If you're in sales, you tend to have this one specific view of your marketing. And then if you're in marketing, you have this one specific view of sales. But I found that the best sales and marketing professionals have held roles in both. So for you to want both of those experiences is probably going to end up being way valuable for you in the future. I want to talk about how you came into the SaaS space specifically, because you were at Apple for a while. And I can't tell you how many people have that on their LinkedIn. And then the very next thing I see up is a SaaS space, like a SaaS company. So like, I'm curious as to what that was like for you, going from being in retail, working at the Apple store, but also probably more of a consultant to consultative approach with people coming in like, so I have this problem, or so I need to know how to do this.

Right? That's, that's very common for Apple employees. And I think SaaS has a lot of similarities with that kind of dynamic. So I'd love for you to dive into that and sort of tell me what that's been like for you. Yeah, so I'll start off to with, I think, what helped a lot is actually managing working at the Apple store, I go in the college full time. So I was working like 30 to 35 hours. So first of all, that's what helped a lot to prepare me for life in SaaS, because it is a grind. You know, there's, there's not like normal eight hour work days, there's sometimes when you're working 10 to 12 hour days. So I'll start it by that, saying the whole thing about putting in that work ethic. But also when it comes to the consultative approach, and things of that nature.

Definitely. I mean, you're, I was a technical specialist. So I'm like the front line. And somebody comes in, they have a problem with their phone or whatever, they're really upset. They take it out on you. You have to be able to handle those situations well, align what their problem is, with what your solution is. And our solution was a service to help them, right. And that totally relates to sales, what you're doing, reaching out to people, but instead, you're actually looking for that problem. So in retail, right, they're coming to you with a problem. But instead, we're actually looking for a potential problem, or maybe they don't have a problem. You know, yeah, maybe it's simply an educational process, right?

Yeah, definitely. And then of course, just kind of, you know, building a strong mindset through that. You know, I've been sworn at, yelled at, but I've also had people who, you know, it was a really good connection with them. And it's, they were so happy when they walked out. And there's nothing better than that. And I think that's in sales too, right? It's a solution that can help. And I love that. Totally. It's, you know, it's ironic that we have the same approach. And yet people react differently, because they're people, and I say this all the time, you could have a great sales process that you've dialed in. And today, you're really hitting hard. And you close one, two deals that day, the next day, you try to rinse, lather, repeat, do the same thing, because it worked.

But you get the door slammed in your face, three, four, five times. You're like, man, this worked so well for me yesterday. But it's not about the approach. It's about how the people respond to the approach. So I love what you're saying there about really coming in hot at a retail level and being like, I have this problem. And you saying, well, do you? Like, maybe this isn't a problem. Maybe this is just an educational need. And we can help on that end. And in the end, what you get is the opportunity to provide that pitch of, we do have a service plan that we can sell you and help you with this. So I could see the reason why you would have a really smooth transition from one to the other. That seems to make sense.

So thanks for diving into that a little bit. I'm sure there's a lot of folks out there that are making that same transition and feeling like, oh, okay, that I can draw some lines there. I want to touch on video because the on-demand platform is very specific in like being unique and being different in your approach, personalization. And you've really taken the video thing seriously. So I want to talk about one, why you started and what it, what it, where it all came from, but then like some of the results you've seen would be wonderful to hear about today. Yeah. Um, I will say I've kind of was slacking on video this past week, but I only started it Thursday. So like less than two weeks ago. And the reason I got into it is I've heard of it.

I knew it was working. I've heard Morgan. I was watching like, uh, muffins with Morgan for a little bit. Um, he actually came and spoke to our BDR team back in June and he said something about video, but I heard that and I didn't take any action. I was like, oh, I made excuses with like, I'm not going to have the time to do that. How am I going to do that along with everything else? But it's like sitting at home. I just need to be more efficient with my time, which is something I'm still working on. You know, everybody has different skill sets and like that constant improvement, right? Definitely. So there's that element, but also it was just like, well, if this is going to drive results, why not just give it a shot?

And I reached out to you and then we spoke and it really kind of motivated me to just say, screw it. And then I started doing videos and that same day, I think I sat like two meetings or like the next day out of saying like nine or 10 and it was just incredible. And I think the reason it works though, is because you're actually able to put your empathy into it and you can actually tell them you care or you see something that you really like about their company and you can align it to your value. It's hard to do that over email. It's hard to do that if you can't get them on the phone, right? It also just expedites the process. That's what's great about it. Even if you're going to know, you're going to get a response much quicker, which I think we're after just as much as the yeses.

So, yeah, you know, I feel like when we talk about this frequently when it comes to the use of video, you know, only 8% of our communication as a whole is the words that we use. The rest of it, 92% of it is the tone and our body language, right? And those are, those are night and day from what we might be saying to the way we might be portraying it or our tone that it might be coming across to our prospects. So we talk about this element of using a hundred percent of your communication skills by creating a lot of videos for prospects specifically about them. That's another aspect of it is that there's this inability to automate these. You really do have to personalize them if you want them to mean something.

Now I've seen instances, I think where people have like made a video for a guy named Jim and then ran a report in Salesforce. First name equals Jim, right? And then just email that same Jim video. It's crazy, but I have seen it. It's, it's crazy. You have to say, I mean, and it's all about the things like saying the company name, right. Mentioned the company name a couple of times. So there's these small things. And I think everything I learned as a BDR in this past year, I'm able to actually put into that video. Right. I have the skills. It's just been, it's been a lot of organizational things and like not getting responses and that drives you a little bit crazy. Right. So I think that's, what's so great about video.

It's like, it builds your confidence up too. I mean, practicing on it too. Like I think you get more comfortable in the back and forth as you get more familiar with your own body language and learn to harness the conveying of those ideas. You know, we've all, if you've been to, if you've been through high school or college, you've had an instructor that was just a wealth of knowledge, but their ability to convey that knowledge just wasn't there for you. You weren't connected. The video aspect really gives us the ability to harness that power and deliver it to our prospects so that they can feel what we're saying on an emotional level, which is often what they buy with. When you're talking about need, you're talking about pain, you're talking about something they want to solve for.

So there's that aspect that I think is worth talking about. What kind of results have you seen? You said you sent about 10 videos your first time out and you scheduled two meetings. Has it gotten easier for you as you've moved forward? Like I said, I mean, and I think it's also the strategy. I'm trying to learn like the best strategy about it. I haven't used like video or any of those tools yet. So I haven't done it over email. I've only been doing it through LinkedIn. Last week was great though. I set a bunch of meetings in different ways. So I didn't get to it. I was like, I had a good week. I'm like, it was like Friday. I'm like, I should send some out. And I was like, nah. Hey, you know, that's when you get creative.

Yeah. Yeah. But I would say, so it was two that I converted out of like 10. And then I also, I think, got responses on two as well. One was a no, but at least I got, I was able to dig more into why that was. And that's just as great sometimes too. Might circle back, you know, who knows they could go back and watch the video and be like, who is this? Somebody said something. And then they reach back out and say, Hey, this is actually relevant right now. You never know how long people hold onto those things, you know, and I've had instances where someone's been like, James, we're not a prospect for you, but this is a great video. I sent it to my team so that they could see an example of video done right.

That kind of stuff makes you feel all warm and gooey inside too. So it's a good idea. The guy wanted to hire me. Nothing else. Oh, there you go. See? Yeah. He's like, he's like, are you looking for a role? And I'm like, oh, that doesn't answer my video question. What are you talking about? Oh, hey, champagne problems. Yeah. And I was just like, like, he didn't even address what I said in there. And I was like, what? I'm like, you know, I'm not looking for a new job, man. But you know, and I think it also, but there were people who didn't even do the videos. So, I mean, I called a guy and I talked to him on the phone. I'm like, did you see the video I sent over? And he's like, no, what are you talking about, man?

But he probably will go look for it though. I probably would say that that's a likelihood and you never know when those things come back to you. I still see like Vidyard will tell you when somebody watches a video that you sent them. And, you know, you send 90 videos in a day, you don't know when people are going to watch them. But sometimes you see the same names popping up over and over. You always wonder to yourself, like, are they watching it over and over because I'm hitting a high note? Or are they like laughing at me while they watch it? Either way, I'm totally fine with it. Look at this big idiot right here. Yeah, you know, there's that fear. But I guess when you get over that, you stop caring about that.

You just start trying to like connect with people on a real level. It gets more fun, I think. And that's a big part of it for me. So, I noticed that you had that degree in marketing before we jumped on here. And I often talk about like having marketing experience and a marketing mind and then doing sales and how that those two things kind of collaborate in the mind. And when you're making videos, you're essentially creating content. That's a lot of what marketing people do. So, how does that sort of come together in your brain as someone holding a degree in marketing, working in sales, when so often there's almost no marketing experience when salespeople join the ranks, but you have an entire education built in behind you?

Yeah. So, definitely what's been the most helpful, but it can also kind of hurt you in a way, is the analytical aspect of it, right? The tracking and measuring? Yeah. That as well as just always looking and critiquing your messaging almost too much, right? You're trying to make the perfect message is what you're doing because you're looking at it from a marketing mindset instead of like a sales where sales is volume a lot of the time too. It's going to be about volume. It's reaching out to a lot of different contexts, sometimes a lot of different accounts. What a marketing mindset kind of does sometimes is like, oh, I need to be very analytical with this and do this, that. Sales is just going out there and doing it, right?

And then getting on the phone. That's not something you can be taught in marketing. But I'd say it relates in that way because you're able to, your writing skills are much better, I would say, as a marketer. And you can kind of convey that into your messaging. But more so just knowing, I think, the business side of it, right? Like I'm only 23, so I still, my business acumen, I still want to work there. But it's like knowing what marketers care about versus salespeople. So with that background, it's definitely helped me in many different ways. But I would say, for the most part, it's the analytical aspect that does help. Yeah, the tracking and measuring and the data collection is often a challenge for sales professionals, even elite sales professionals that have been doing it for a long time will tell you.

Well, predictable forecasting is definitely, forecasting is something that John will often refer to as story time. And the reason he refers to it that way is because so often we get the happy ears, you know, we get off, we get off this wonderful call. And we're young sales professionals that don't realize that things take a long time to progress and make happen. And a lot of next steps have to be there. They, they see the top of the mountain, but what they don't see is the mountain, right? So, so that, you know, they come in with these happy ears, they come in saying to their forecast meeting saying, I got a great call with this one, it's going to close, I got it. And listen, you know, we're all guilty of this, because people tend to want to please others naturally.

So we say things to each other on these calls, like, yeah, we'll set up another call for next week, keep the conversation going. Takes a little while before you realize that you've not really gotten anywhere. And then you realize quickly that those happy ears have come back to bite you because you told somebody it's going to close. So there's a lot of check marks and boxes that we have to go through to be able to really have an accurate forecast. What's that, what's that process been like for you thus far, tracking and measuring? What are some of the things that you've seen that, that you're doing well? And some of the things that you're like, Hmm, I never thought of it that way. Or I never bothered to look there.

More so like, in performance wise, or like email responses and things of that nature? Are you sure? Yeah, if that if that's part of the metrics that you're looking at right now? Yeah, definitely. So we do forecast, it's usually like every two weeks as BDRs, which is great. It's already preparing us for that next roll, whatever that might be, right? When it's more serious and you're forecasting with actual dollar amounts. Um, so that forecasting process is using a lot of your conversion rates. So we have data in our system and we're able to see, okay, where are you converting your rates at? Or what are you converting your leads at? And you can actually kind of plug that into I think it's like an Excel doc or something.

It's really, it's a little bit more basic of a forecasting process because we're all still learning. And there's also that kind of gut aspect of it. That's the hardest point to get is when you look at your pipeline. And you're like, this one, I kind of think I could maybe get him, you know, there's a lot of kind of the maybes about, will I get a meeting here? So building that into the forecast can be a little bit difficult. But I think it's all there's a science behind it. And it's, there's hard conversion rates, there's a certain amount of leads that you need to work to get to your goal. And all of that plays into the forecasting there. And yeah, as far as responses and everything, we're not able to check that quite that well.

But I, I, I'm able to and I keep it kind of, I don't know, those are a little bit tough because it's also you're going to get more grounded. Or would you say that happy ears is something you experience as well? I think I, that happy ears, could you explain that one more time? Yeah, sometimes we hear things on calls. And we think that means that the deal is going to close. And then we wind out later that you haven't really gotten anywhere, you haven't progressed on to move the needle at all. So you end up feeling like it's going to close and you find out later that it's not going to close. Oh, yeah. Like, would you say that you get that feeling often at this point? Yes, I agree. That's why I wanted to reconfirm that there.

Oh, 100%. I mean, it's like, you'll have traction, you'll have them on the phone. And they're like, yeah, I'd love to speak with you. But you didn't provide enough value in that call. And you call them in the middle of something, or you didn't provide enough value in the follow up email. And they ghost you. And it happens to everybody, right? The ghosting is the worst. It's pretty real. Definitely. Yeah, but you get happy ears when you get off the phone. And you're like, Oh, it sounded great. Yeah, we're gonna have a great meeting. Then I'll tell my A.E. Even my A.E. gets, like, they'll get happier. Yeah. Yeah. Or I'll like say, Hey, got you a meeting with this person. Like, I'll go on Slack.

And then the person doesn't get back to me. And I'm like, why did I do that? You know, I just kick myself in the ass. So sometimes it definitely can come back to bite you. Yeah, but it's all great. I mean, it's, it's better to learn these all this stuff. Now, I think that's the best thing about sales is it's challenge. And there's so many moving pieces. And yeah, it's supposed to be fun and challenging at the same time, you know, if it wasn't challenging, everybody would do it. But the fact is that it's challenging. And that's why a lot of people tend to steer away from it. So you recently joined the on demand platform. And I want to talk about some of the takeaways that you've gotten from that.

You've only started diving into it, and you're working towards that certification right now. What's been the takeaway that stands out most to you so far? Yeah, there's like a lot of small tips that John has throughout, where I'm realizing, I was doing wrong for, I'm not kidding, like 10 months, or it's really small things. Yeah, like the voicemails, right, where you can try to leave your maybe name at the end, or just ideas like that, where maybe it makes a difference. Like maybe it doesn't, who knows, really. But I know that that's probably something, John's talking about it, it works, right. And I think it's just reconfirming that. So that's one of those things, those small tips, but also just the biggest thing is kind of the time management aspect in the organization.

Like the Excel doc that's provided and kind of being able to personalize your emails more. I know there's kind of back and forth on the personalization thing and what all that is, but the targeted approach and just being able to do mass scale personalization to buyer personas. I knew of that before, right? These are a lot of the things I didn't know, but I think it's actually the strategy to do that throughout the day and be able to still have time in the day. That's been the biggest thing for me, the organization aspect. And John goes over that, he goes over everything in it. Yeah. So what you're saying there, if I'm gathering what you're saying correctly, what you're saying is that a lot of these things are things that you view as common sense.

Like we know these things inherently, but the strategies and how to execute on them. Yep. That's the part that you take away and you go, okay, I can structure my days like this. Right. And because I can structure my days like this, I can find my equations, plug everything into this process. And what I get as a result, that's predictable. That's what you're after there. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, hey, if there's one takeaway I would say is effective, it's the ability to look at your process and be able to say, hey, I expect X, Y, or Z out of the end of this month based on this process, this structure here. Yeah. Because the forecasting in there too. Yeah. It's like everything in one. That's what I love about it is just, it's not like there's just a couple of tips here and there.

That's just what I like. But what I think is very useful is just all of it's there. Yeah. When you guys, when you started this journey, I guess, into the sales ecosystem, what kind of resources did you immediately know you were looking for when you joined and said, this is my choice. I want to do this for a living? In sales? Yeah. Like resources outside of my company? Sure. Absolutely. And like anything you were like circling around, you know? Yeah. I would say reading a lot like before as well as when I started was like reading sales books and learning more about like the whole process of like what you can say to make people and like, it's hard to speak to an executive. I mean, it's definitely not easy for a 23 year old to have the confidence to get on the phone with the CEO and you constantly think you're wasting their time, but you're not.

You need to realize you're talking to my heart right now. We talk about this all the time. Yeah. But that's the biggest thing there and learning that. But to be honest with you, what happened was about a month in, I just kind of stopped that. I didn't look outside. I just kind of relied on internal processes, which are great and work. Right. But you still have to adapt your strategies as you go on. And I think I fell into just kind of bad habits of doing the similar messaging and things maybe that didn't resonate as well. And, you know, you go through a lot of change in your role and yeah, there's a lot of distractions that will happen. And I think I lost that. And I'm finally kind of have that back.

And I think that's, that was part of the reason I also made the investment into the platform is just like reaffirming and learning more. There's, there's always so much more you can learn. Yeah. I mean, you never stop growing when you're always looking for that next thing to evolve to, right? And we're always looking for that next step. Let's talk a little bit about your goals, because SDRs always have goals that are in place. And sometimes I see them as really attainable. And sometimes I hear about these goals. And again, you see the mountain top, but you don't see the mountain itself. So what kind of goals you got in front of you right now, man? Yeah. So I would say right now, I still have not hit 100% my goal yet.

So short term goal, is to actually hit 100% next month. I'd love to do it month. I don't know if I'm going to end up with a quarter, but monthly, right? So that would be short term. What I'm doing right now is of course, I mean, like this was a couple of weeks ago, I finally like reached out to my manager and told him this has been just a horrible past couple of months. Like, yeah, it's been rough. And I was in a kind of dark place there and reaching out, like when I reached out to you too, and just kind of flip the script a little bit to learn more and just be more positive about it. That's what I'm doing to get there. Honestly, the mindset and the learning, um, not doing the robotic templates and all this stuff, like this gratitude and stuff.

And that's the video as well. So short term, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. No, the short term goals you have there are spot on, right? I haven't hit quota yet. So I want to hit 100% of my goal, taking some steps to get there. It's always great to have those small attainable steps that inch you closer and closer to hitting that goal. So, you know, really respect those goals. I've, I've heard some whoppers in my time when I asked that question. So that's a good answer. Um, for in your experience so far, there's a lot of reps. I always tell people that like having two groups in your life, people that are where you want to be and people that want want to be where you are. There's a lot of reps behind you that are joining right now.

Uh, they just graduated. They're not sure what they wanted to do, but now they're like SDR. I hear it's a good thing and I have a good personality. I might be good at that. What's your advice for the new reps coming in that are not 11 months in and didn't have a YouTube channel and didn't get a marketing degree, but landed here anyway and are searching for some sort of hope that there's some skill sets out there they can focus on and develop. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you could start with the resources. Um, don't always rely on what you have internally. There's many ideas in there, which are great, but there's also many ideas outside too that will overlap with those ideas as well. But it's just trying new things.

That is the biggest takeaway. I'd say I have, um, stick to the process of what works, right? Of course, if something's worked for you, keep doing it, but also be sure to adapt your strategy. Don't sit there and just keep thinking. And that's, that was the mistake I did. I think after COVID hit, I was, I was able to keep up kind of, you know, before as a BDR, but then when COVID hit and I was just still doing the same thing, I was like, Whoa, I'm getting, I'm getting wrecked right now. Like this is not good. And I didn't adapt. And that also goes to another point. If you ever do get in those spots, um, and you're, you know, there's the peaks and valleys, right? When you're in those valleys, make sure that you're, you're reaching out to your manager, you're reaching out to other people inside your company.

Uh, the biggest thing is just don't go through the journey alone. I, I mean, somebody told me that last week too. They're like, Hey man, don't ever go through this journey alone. Like, um, everybody's been there at some point. So if you're feeling negative or you're looking at your number and you're like, I don't know how I'm ever going to get up to this person, don't compare yourself to other people. Just focus on yourself. Look at those resources and take action. Don't sit there and just wait and think things are going to change. Yeah. That's, that's good. That's strong advice right there. What's the best way that folks can reach you? Yeah. Um, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So that's probably the best way there.

Uh, Matt Campbell's probably common name, but, um, my cell phone's on there too. So I guess I'll put my cell phone out here. Uh, my cell phone's eight, one, zero nine, eight, six, zero eight, four, five. So I put my cell phone number out everywhere. You're the first person I've ever interviewed that did the same. So I like, like just I'm around phones. I'm like, ah, everybody calls my phone. I have it like all over. It's just like, highly responsive. Like that's part of what makes it. I want to thank you for coming on the show, being vulnerable, really showing what you've been through and your growth and starting your journey with us to get today. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to meet with me.

It does mean a lot and we appreciate all of our make it happen community members. So thanks a lot for coming on the show, Matt. Thank you so much, James. Huge. Thanks to our guests. Thanks everybody for joining us today and sharing the experience and the struggles. It takes guts to get out here and bear all in this way. So there's a lot of hard months ahead and this isn't going to get any easier. This is the new normal that we live in. And a change is needed now more than ever in your process because we have to impact our customers and be unique. So, uh, this has all been in the, in the, in the, in the betterment of the community, so to speak. So for what it's worth, leave your comments, subscribe, join us, join our Facebook group, check us out at on demand.jbarrows.com.

If you're looking to see the on demand platform and get JV sales certified, uh, be sure and document all your wins. The wins are worth so much in the grand scheme of things. And we look forward to the sales community that really makes a difference and helps elevate the profession. Hashtag make it happen. Thanks a lot, everybody, for joining us. We'll see you real soon.