181: Victor Antonio's Thoughts On 2020 And Predictions For 2021

What's poppin' y'all, it's your man, James Say What Sales Buckley, and this is another episode of Make It Happen Mondays with your host, Jon Barrows. Big shout out to our partners, Sales Loft, Gong, Vidyard, Proposify, Zoom Info, and Rise. Thanks for your continued support and all that you do for the sales community. Today, we have a very special guest, one of the most inspiring and real people that I've ever met in my sales career. Mr. Victor Antonio of the Selinger Group will be joining Jon to talk about reaching an experience level that makes sales easier, recognizing anxiety sources and cutting them off early, selling in other countries, and much, much more. This is sure to be a fantastic episode.

The JBSales team can now be followed on Instagram. Just search JBSalesTraining, all one word, to get all of our tips, techniques, and suggestions there on Instagram. Also, be sure and visit us at JBSalesOnDemand. That URL is ondemand.jbarrows.com so that you can join and subscribe to our community of sales professionals, become certified in filling the funnel, and learn to close like we do and build a personal brand that stands out. I'll send it over to Jon and Victor now to get this going. You got it, fellas. Let's do this. Good afternoon, everybody. This is Jon Barrows. Make it happen Monday. Hopefully, you had a fantastic weekend and a great break. And I am fired up to have my good friend, Victor Antonio.

What's going on, Victor? How are you, my friend? Jon, all good, man. I think I'm feeling refreshed, Jon. I think I'm ready to go, man. Let me in the game, coach. Let me in the game, man. I was going to say, I've been itching. We talked about, we talked right before we get on this, that, you know, about two weeks of total checkout, right? But I don't know about you. Like, after about two weeks, I start getting antsy. Like, I don't, did you take, from a vacation standpoint, the max for me is two weeks. Because otherwise, I'm like, I gotta fucking do something. How about you? Like, do you have the same mentality there? I didn't go two weeks like you did. I think that's pretty bold, man. Because you said your birthday was on the 21st, right?

So happy birthday. Everybody now knows your birthday. And so I took it off. I think I got seven days in there. I think I got seven days before the new year. You know what I mean? Just kind of said, let me just do this. And the thing is, for you and I, it's tough not to work on little things, right? So we cheat. I don't know about you, but I cheat. You know, I go over there and just kind of like, eh, let me just check that real quick. And then make sure the wife doesn't catch you, right? Yeah. Yeah, I will say, though, for the first time in a long time, last year, when we took our ridiculous RV trip, it was two weeks. And it was the first time I actually did not cheat. I did not check email. I did not do anything other than a little bit of Instagram stuff just to kind of tell the story or whatever.

And it was refreshing. I'm finally getting to the point with my business, too, that we have, like, I have 10 people now, which is absolutely bananas. I never thought I was going to. Congratulations, man. Thanks. And I'm finally seeing that proverbial light at the end of the tunnel saying, wait a minute. Like, my goal this year, we talked about goals. My goal this year is to, if I can step out of the business for a month and it can still run from a revenue standpoint and everything else, and it doesn't skip a beat, that's my goal by the end of the year. So that by the end of the year, I can say, guys, I'm gravy on top of this engine right now. Like, if I don't do anything, this company still runs.

And I'm excited to be there because I think we got the squad to do it. So you're basically going to Gerber-fy your business. Remember, Michael Gerber said, don't work in your business, work on your business. And that's when you know you got a process, man. There you go. Good for you, man. Well, I've been working in it for 10 years. You know what I mean? Like, I've been grinding and training and all that other stuff, which I love to do because it keeps me connected. It keeps me fresh and all that other stuff. But I have not had the luxury of taking a step back and really working on the business. And I think if I can get to that point, we're going to be able to take that leap to that next level of where we're going.

So, but let's back up a little bit before you and I just shoot the shit about everything. Let's talk a little bit. For those of you, I mean, I was on your podcast, but give the audience a little bit of background. You're the sales trainer and motivational keynote for Selinger Group. Give us a little bit kind of history, where you are, what you're doing, that type of stuff and where, and then we'll take the conversation from there. All right. A little background. I started out in engineering. People don't know that. Started out in engineering, background as electrical engineer. Did a lot of software development, hardware testing, all that good stuff. Worked on a torpedo system. If you saw the hunt for Red October, I worked on that torpedo system.

Then went into application engineer, just hung out. Then the sales engineer hung out with the salespeople. Then realized they make more money, John. So I said, you know what? I think I want to do some of that. And then eventually, you know, moved up the ranks, became a sales VP for all of Latin America. And so we lived in Argentina for two years. And then a CEO of a technology company out of Christiansburg, Virginia, selling satellite transponders. And then May 9th, 2001, 3.48 p.m. John, Victor Antonio calls it. I'm done. I want to do my own thing. So it was May 9th. May 9th is my independence day. And so I've been doing sales training and, you know, motivational speaking. People always ask me about the motivational speaking part.

Because I always think, I'd love to get your take on it. I don't think you can motivate people, John. I think what you can do is give people the tools. And once they see success using those tools, they're motivated. That's kind of my perspective. I have a similar one. I actually feel, look, I love Tony Robbins. But it disheartens me a little bit that so many people need somebody to, quote unquote, or think they need somebody to motivate them. I think you can inspire people. I genuinely think you can inspire people to do things. But I don't think you can actually motivate people. Because motivation to me is an internal thing. Whereas inspiration is an external thing. I get inspiration from people I talk about.

But if I don't have that internal drive to go do it myself, it's not going to happen. Or if something doesn't happen, I'll give you a perfect example. With me this year, last year was a wake-up call for me from a health standpoint. 45 years old, all of a sudden, some shit started happening that I just couldn't control. You know, high blood pressure. I sprained both my ankles. I broke both my ankles. And I've been treating my body like a trash bag for 45 years. I mean, the fact that I'm still here is just astronomical. But it really kind of got me to take a step back and say, huh. And my dad has heart issues. My sister has heart issues. And so with my high blood pressure, I was like, it was like, okay, I am now motivated to get in shape.

I am now motivated because it was that. But I wasn't before. I really wasn't because there was nothing. I was like, whatever, look at me. You know, I'm fine. You know, I look fine with a t-shirt on. I'm okay. But when that wake-up call hit me, so I think that's what you can uncover. From somebody like you or somebody like me or somebody like Tony Robbins, I think that we can uncover somebody's hidden motivation, but I don't think that we can actually motivate them. Yeah, I think we inspire people to try to change and do things differently. So I'm with you on that. My father passed away when he was 58, and I'm about to hit 58, believe it or not. And, you know, so I've always had that in my mind.

Like, you know, I mean, I don't treat my body like trash because my wife won't let me. You know, so we're like 34 years into the game. I pretty much do what she tells me to do. You know what I mean? So thank God I've kept this like that. But I hear you. I hope you're feeling well, man. I am. I'm feeling a lot better and a lot more optimistic about where things are going. I want to say, you said Argentina. And actually, I don't think I told you this. Do you know where I am right now? No. You're in a hotel room. I know that. So talking about wives, right? My wife, about two months ago, she was like, look, COVID ain't getting any better. So and our daughter was still live in school. She would go to school.

But we were figuring, all right, come January, everything's going to be locked down in Boston. So it's going to be virtual anyways. So my wife gets on Airbnb. She Googles Caribbean and finds whatever Airbnb was in. So we're in Aruba here for two months. So we packed up the whole house. And if we're going to because we were like, what if we're going to do if we're going to do COVID and lockdown, might as well be in nice weather than shitty weather in Boston. So we are now in two months here in Aruba, fully set up with this big, huge house that we bought, you know, that we are renting out. And then we got a pool and everything else. So, you know, Aruba, when you said Argentina, it got me to question, like, why Argentina for a couple of years?

What drove you to go there? Was it work? Was it passion? Like, and what did that do for you from a perspective standpoint? Yeah, from a bit, you know, it's interesting. This is just full disclosure, right? So I got an MBA because when I was director of sales, somebody told me, you'll never make VP unless you have an MBA, right? But that wasn't an asshole. So anyway, so like I said, the company was going to pay for it. It's a big telecom company. They were going to pay for it. I said, let me do it, right? And so I did it in the evening, got it after two years, got my MBA. And about like literally what happened was, John, what's interesting is that I actually told the company I was going to leave.

I said, I'm leaving because you don't have a spot for me. I jumped out of, I was director of sales. I jumped back into product management because I wanted to manage a profit center and run a team, right? So I wanted to have that experience. And so I said, you don't have a spot for me. I want to go back to sales. And literally a month after I had the conversation with the VP of the company itself, he was like, Victor, I got a spot for you. How would you like to be VP of Latin America? I'm like, all right, got the language down. I've never lived into the region. And so there was one prerequisite is I had to move into the region. He said, every VP that's handled Latin America has failed, never sold more than, I think the number was like 10 million or 11 million, something like that.

And he said, you have to move into the region. And I said, all right, so Puerto Rico, my family's from Puerto Rico. I'm going to go, give me Puerto Rico. They're like, no, no, no, in the region. You know, like they put that spit in the region, Victor. And so we, so I had, it was Venezuela, Mexico, and Argentina because we had main offices there. Mexico had a high kidnap rate, not doing that. Venezuela, I was there when Hugo Chavez has their first coup attempt. I was doing a presentation there and I heard the cannons that night. I'll go, I'll go, yeah, I'll go to Argentina. I was there. I was in Peru when Fujimori sent the troops into the embassy. I was doing a presentation to a company. A person runs in, cancels the presentation.

I mean, it was, I got war stories, man, of traveling. So when people talk to me about sales and traveling and war stories, I'm like, let's come on. Let's, let's, let's rack them up. Let's have some beer and wine. Let's rack this up. Let's Hugo's. And so, so I do another podcast just on those stories, man. Interesting stories, man. It's fascinating the, the, how you have to do business down there. And so I had all Latin America that, that would include also the Caribbean, Mexico, everything. And so we built it in two and a half years, we went from 14, that was the number 14 to $98 million in two and a half years. Just major ramp up. So they were happy about that. And what I learned down there is that, you know, you know, we live here in the United States and it isn't until you travel to other countries that you come back and you, I don't know about you, but I'm always kissing dirt.

When I come back to the U S I always tell people that I'm like, yeah, you know, I mean, we got issues. We're trying to work things out, but I got, I've seen problems. So Latin America got a beautiful country. I think these countries are so beautiful, so gorgeous, probably like a rumor, right? That if they ever get their infrastructure and their act together, they don't need the U S. I mean, if you think about it, they don't. And so the biggest aha down there was, you know, I learned a lot, John. I learned, I learned how to manage people. I learned how to make the tough calls when I had to make the tough calls. I had to make sure I put in the right infrastructure, just like you're doing now. You're building your team, you're scaling it.

You're putting an infrastructure in and then man, you got to drive the business and you got to be that guy. And you got to be that guy. So I grew up quite quickly down there after two years. And so after two years, we got the numbers up and they allowed me to come back. Like Lily said, you can come back if you want. Now you can run it from Miami. So I just moved to Miami. We ran it from there. So it was interesting. That's awesome, man. Those types of experiences, I didn't give a lot of perspective too. Like you said, I feel bad for a lot of people that don't travel, that don't experience other countries, right? First of all, it opens up your mind to a million different other ways of looking at things.

But also it gives you a lot of perspective of what, how fortunate I think a lot of us are in, you know, living in the United States, having the opportunities that we have to do things that we want to do. Because other countries, you literally don't even have that possibility of the opportunity. And so. John, here's how whacked out it is sometimes. So we're living down there in Argentina. Just a funny story. I go down there. I need to buy some cars, right? We can't ship the cars down. I got to buy some cars. So I try to go to the bank, take $1,000 in the bank just to open an account, right? And then I get to the door. It's closed. I'm like midday. So I just start, you know, pulling up a little bit.

And then all of a sudden this guard comes off to the door, you know, got the rifle sideways down, right? And he's like, how can I help you? And I'm like, you know, I just wanted to open an account. He goes, what do you mean? I said, money, open an account. He says, come on in. I'm like, what the hell? So I walk in and he says, wait right there. Guy walks over there and says, how can we help you? I said, I want to open an account. Got money, got passport, open an account. He goes, he says, how much are you going to deposit? I said, $1,000. He goes, wait right there. And they took me finally to the next guy, took me into the back room. And I had to explain the whole story while I'm down there.

And they still wouldn't let me open up the bank account. I said, but I'm giving you money. All I need is something to take it out. But it didn't work out. I had to fly back to the U.S. Because when I went to buy the cars, I couldn't do credit. So I had to do cash. But I didn't have a bank account. So I literally had to fly back to the U.S. And hopefully nobody's listening to this. I had to fly back to the U.S. Literally had $30,000 in my crotch. Oh, my God. And I had to come back. And when I went to the dealership to buy these two cars, and they were used cars because they're going to be there a short time, we thought. And I remember I walked in with all this dough. And they're like, they took me to the back room so I could do a whole countdown.

And I'm like, little things like that, infrastructure-wise, even just to try to get a license, even try to get a city sticker or whatever it may be. It was just, again, we take so much for granted. You know, we can complain about government, but in many cases, government has it right. You know, but so we take that for granted. That was a big eye-opener for me. Yeah, I think that, and again, I think a lot of life is about perspective. And I think that's a good transition to where the theme of this conversation is going to go, which is perspective on last year, right? And you said, in kind of some of the prep notes that we put together here, that 2020 was your best year or one of your best years.

One of my best years, yeah. So for a lot of people, right, it was probably their worst year for personal, professional reasons or whatever it is. There was a lot of people that got, and I think there was a lot of people that got stuck with the excuse of COVID. And some people actually had a legitimate excuse because of very, very real things. But other people, I think, used it as an excuse to not succeed. So why, first of all, let's talk about why 2020, from your perspective, was one of your best years. So I had the, I just finished my first quarter run. Just if you do a lot of sales training and speak, you know that the first quarter, maybe the first two quarters are big. Then it takes a dip in the summer and it comes back up at the end.

So I was finishing up my first quarter run. I was in Puerto Rico, came back a week later, shut down. End of March, right? And about a week or two in April, I'm going, oh, shit. I said, and I remember telling my wife, we're done. She goes, what do you mean we're done? I said, all my contracts are going to be canceled. And John, all the contracts, almost 90% of my business whacked, right? I was like, oh, shit, that's not good, right? My brain thought was like, that's not good. And immediately, I went through the whole thing, the whole pivoting. I hate to use the word pivot, it's been abused too much, I think. But I said, okay, now what do we do? We have the online academy, the Sales Velocity Academy.

Now we're going to really push that. Then let's start promoting the whole virtual thing. I started doing a show called Sales After Dark three times a week, which people are like, why are you giving away content three times a week? I said, because you don't understand marketing yet. That's what I was saying. And so I started doing all these things, and all of a sudden, business starts coming for me. Because I'm not the outbound guy, I'm the inbound guy. And I produce content. I mean, that's my philosophy, produce the content, generate real value, people will find you. And so what happens is, now I'm getting virtual business. But so my revenue will be, and I'll give you this number, it's 10% less than a year before.

So you say, but Victor, why was it a better year? Dude, because I've worked like two, three hours a day only. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm not making as much money. But 10% loss, I'm thinking 10% loss. I'm not getting on a plane. I'm not traveling to a hotel, staying in a jail cell. I'm not doing any of this. I'm winning. Dude, I said, I'm winning. So it was to me, I keep reminding people the phrase quality of life. Because that's the balance. Everybody can make a lot of money. You know what I mean? You can really make money if you really just focus in on it. But can you have a good quality of life? You know, that's what you were reminding me when you were telling me about your last two weeks.

I go, that's quality of life. Do you think that changes with age? How much do you, well, I know it does. How much do you think that changes with age from a perspective standpoint? 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, right? Because I think I've gained a much different perspective in my 40s with a kid. And those type of things about quality of life and what's important to me. What does quality of life look like in your 20s, though? Like, you know what I mean? Is that when you should be doubling down? Or is it something you should always be focused on, right? Do you think of things as stages, if you will? I don't know, John. You know, I've studied memory a lot. How people remember things. And, you know, the concept of memory distortion, right?

And I realized that, and there was this one study, it was a really interesting study. They asked people a year later, you know, what happened on 9-11? Where were they, right? And they gave their story. And then they came back, and I think it was five years later, they asked them, can you tell me where you were on 9-11? And their story had changed like 30% in five years. That's memory distortion. Because as we recall things, we distort, we change things. And so when people ask me questions about what would you have done when you were 20, your younger self? And I go, I don't know. At that time, I was so insecure. I was coming out of the hood, right? You know, we were poor. I was making money. That's all I cared about.

I didn't have to, you know, ask people for money. I had money in the bank account. And in my 20s, and maybe even my 30s, I was still running. I know that I had a moment, though, John, at 36. I can nail that sucker right there. Why 36? Very easy. That was my midlife crisis, by the way. So at 36, true story, 36, I realized I had that moment. I said, shit, 36. I said, that's two times 18. And your first 18 years are kind of your golden years, right? Yeah. Friends, family, first girlfriend, you know, the whole thing. And then I said, man, I just lived another 18. And I realized that the second 18 was not as good as the first. And that was the beginning of what I call the quiet discontent that I have to change.

And it was around two years later is when I decided to quit and walk away from corporate America because I said, I don't want to live the next 18. I live my life in 18s, by the way. So the third 18, I just finished the third 18. I'm telling you, that third 18 was champion, man. What happened in the next 18, the stuff I've experienced in the last 15 years, easy, amazing. I've met amazing people, been to amazing places. Unintended consequences. Had my own television show. Do you know what I mean? People are coming to me and I'm doing these things because I decided to do it my way. But on that whole thing about quality of life, I think like you, it started hitting me at 40. And at 50, this was something you might want to consider this because it helped me greatly mentally.

I came up with at the age of 50, I gave myself the greatest gift. True story. Not in a line. I gave myself the greatest gift. And that was the gift of forgiveness. Here's what I mean by this. Too often, we hearken back to stuff we used to do and what we did wrong. All the stupid stuff we did, right? God, I was such an idiot. And so at the age of 50, I said, okay, from this moment forward, we can't recall bad experiences. I literally said this to myself. So it doesn't, it's out of bounds. So next time you like, you castigate yourself for doing something stupid, you can't reach back before 50. And so what happened was I kept stopping my brain from reaching back. And that put me one in a more positive state.

I can't explain. You'll have to kind of experience it yourself. But, but I also think that as I hit 50, I started like becoming, and I'm working on it still, I'm more patient now. But the big change was I stopped comparing. I don't compare myself to other people. I don't compare. I don't look in your pocket. I don't care how much money you're making. I just don't care. You know, you know, when I, when I see all these people say, you know, like, and we'll talk about our industry, you know, these sales trainers got the best book, best. I just don't care, man. Congratulate. By the way, I salute you. I congratulate you. Bravo. Well done. By the way, can we go get a beard now? Yeah. And it's not, I mean, I think that's what people miss is it's not a, it's not a zero sum game here in the sense that if it doesn't mean if I win, you have to lose.

Like there's plenty of business out there. And, and I, and I had that same conversation with my team this year. I'm like, guys, because I did, I will say, you know, early last year and, and kind of bled into this year, I started like, I was kind of comparing myself or being annoyed that other people were, were copying us. You know what I mean? You know, man, we just did that. Now that person just did the exact same thing, charging the exact same amount, whatever it was. And like, fuck that. And then halfway, like, you know, it's when COVID hit, it kind of gave me that perspective. I'm like, guys, who cares? Literally. Cause I saw my team doing the same thing. They were like, Oh, did you see this post by so-and-so?

Did you see this? And I was like, wait a minute, let's stop it guys. Let's, let's focus on what we can control. We can't control them. Who cares? Like if, if they're a better fit, if somebody wants to go spend their money with them, then God bless them. There's a billion salespeople out there that we can work with. There's professionals that we can engage with. We just got to go find out who they are and do our thing. And I think that's where- That's a big step, man. That's a big step right there. Yeah. That's a big step. Good for you, man. I love the fact that you shared that with your team, because if you got some young, some young guns in there, you got to teach them. I said, don't look out, look in, let's figure out how we can do it better.

And I think you, you wind up creating more creative stuff when you don't look at other people's. I mean, by the way, we notice things that's okay with noticing what people are doing, but I'm not sitting there, as you pointed out, comparing, look what they're doing. I don't even do that anymore. I'm like, no, not for me, man. Yeah. And I think it gives you that, that ability to, to, to your point, get creative and not be put in the box of what everybody else is doing and push yourselves to, to really do. And I, and I did this a long time ago. I remember when I was selling IT services that, um, I was so fixated on selling against my competition that I lost sight of selling to my client. And so what was happening was when I would come up against two or three of my top competitors, I would know their, I would, and I would sell against them, but I stopped listening to what the client needed.

And so I would lose. Dude, that's such a great line. That's such a great line. That's such a great line. Because it's so true. Thank you. That's good. Yeah. Use it. Cause, cause it's, it is so true because now once you start focusing on the client and who gives a shit, if they choose somebody else, then either your product was not the right fit or you need to get to do a better job at fucking selling, man. That's it. That's it. That's it. Get better. Mindset. And by the way, that, that mindset brings us anxiety down. To me, a big word is anxiety. We, we get anxiety when we think we're funny on that fear of missing out things of that nature, you know? And as soon as you just say, stop, stop, stop.

One of the best books I read, my book of 2020, my book of 2020 was, it was a sleeper called positive intelligence. And positive intelligence is about a book. It was almost, I think the guy, it's almost like a, a redux or a rehash of a book that came out like in the 70s or 80s called Taming Your Gremlin or something. It's about, it's about all these voices in your head. And the one, the biggest one being the judge, that's always judging others, but more harshly judging you. And if you label the voice in your head, you can stop it. And it's a great book. So, you know, if people are in a funk and they're trying to get out, this is a good book. I don't know how y'all feel, but Victor for me is one of the most gripping speakers and trainings that I've ever met.

To gain knowledge from his experience could potentially spare you from a big mistake in your future that you might've made. It will also spark inspiration in your life that will open countless doors for growth. There's just no telling what you'll learn from a single conversation with Victor Antonio. Remember to send me your sales wins at james at jbarrows.com. I really want to hear your stories. That way you can be highlighted on another episode of Make It Happen Mondays in the future. Today, we shout out Glenn Becker of Echo Global Logistics. He signed up for JB Sales On Demand and increased his meetings per month by 5% and his open rates by 15% thanks to the skills and tactics that he gained from his JB Sales On Demand subscription.

Keep going and keep growing, Glenn. Way to sell better. You too could be selling better, just like Glenn, by joining ondemand.jbarrows.com and taking your sales results into your own hands. Glenn boosted his monthly performance and you could do the same. The process and structure at JB Sales On Demand will have you prepared on a daily basis and seeing more results more often. Sign up today that URL again, ondemand.jbarrows.com. We'll see you there. Back to the show. Actually, you know, it's funny you bring that up because a mentor of mine, we're both stoners, right? So we get into these stoner conversations and one of the things he, and he's very cerebral and, you know, big picture oriented.

And he talked about, he always had this, he felt bad that he judged people, right? Like, you know, I mean, cause we all do, whether we consciously or subconsciously do it, the way they dress, the way they look, whatever it is. And he always fought that about himself. He was like, you know what? Like, I feel like, ugh, I don't want to judge people. But what he did, I guess, and I don't know whether he did it with a psychiatrist or whatever, but he labeled, to your point, he labeled that judgment. And he actually even created this little character. So he has this little Buddha elephant, right? And he's like, that's my judge elephant. That's my judgy elephant. And what it means is it's a part of me, okay?

I'm not going to try to remove this thing. It's a part of me. And I accept that it's a part of me, but it's only this small part of me. So at certain points, yes, I'm going to be judgy and I'm going to give myself the authority to be judgy and not feel bad about it because it's just part of me. But realizing that I can take that little piece and put it away anytime I want, but it's only this little small piece of who I actually am. And it got him to compartmentalize and label that as opposed to feeling bad about it. And it's kind of like going to the gym, right? One of my old CEOs said, you either go to the gym or you don't. Don't not go to the gym and then feel guilty about it, right? Because now it's a double negative.

Now you're not getting the health benefit and you're getting the mental angst about it. If you don't go to the gym, then fuck it. Sit on the couch, eat a bunch of, you know, ice cream and say to yourself, I'm doing this because I want to do this and I'm not going to feel bad. I'll go to the gym tomorrow, right? It's that mindset of compartmentalizing and labeling things that I think is so critical to get in that healthy mindset, which is really where I wanted to, you know, take this, which is from your perspective, how do you think, based on what happened from last year, that people should be right now, as of January, getting into the right mindset for 2021? Like, what's that look like for success?

And everybody's definition of success is going to be different, right? But mindset, I think, is critical to achieve that success. So how do you get in the right mindset? As of January 1st, we're working with a relatively clean state from a slate from a sales standpoint. COVID's still here. We got to mess the go through. But what can you be doing right now to get in that positive mindset? Yeah, for me, what drives me, unless, you know, if there's an unexpected event, we just have to react, which is what COVID was for us. Unexpected event, right? As Joseph Schumpeter would call it creative destruction, throws something in the market, blows it up, everything resembles, right? But now that we don't have that, now we kind of know what's with us right now, right?

So as we move forward, what helps me and what's helped me with that, I'll give you the example. When I was doing, when I decided to do sales after dark, I committed publicly to doing 100 episodes and three a week, and that is hard. You can only imagine how hard that is. And I couldn't give up because one, I said I was going to do it. Two, I let everybody else know I was going to do it. That's what I said I was going to do. And so what helps me, John, is in terms of setting the mindset is I try to go, I run to the end of the year and look back. What do I want? What are the minimum guarantees that I want? And so the minimum guarantees, like right now this year, so I had to make new decisions. So this is the decision made over the holidays.

So we're going to do two, and I'm telling you again, I'm publicly stating because I'm letting you know where I'm going. So we're doing two webinars every month all the way through the end of the year. That's, I mean, we're just going to do those. I'm committed to doing like podcast interviews. That was my new goal. I'm going to insert some Spanish ones this year. So we're going to do two a month. So we're going to do those in Spanish. And then what we talked about before, there's something you had already done is I'm going to take off Fridays again, continue to do that. Call it the free day. You called it was my day Friday, my day, but my day Friday. So I called it free day. And then also I'm going to, I'm going to work on a six hour sprint, six in the morning to 12 and at 12, I just stopped working.

And I'm going to see how that. So those are the things that if I know that if I do all those things, John, I don't know if, I don't know if my money will be right, but I think it will be. But I know I'll, I'll feel good because I have an action plan. I think anxiety comes anxiety and lack of action come from when you don't know how to approach the year. It's like the, and I don't mean to be long-winded here, but just, let me just give you this one more analogy. Cause I thought it was powerful. The Heath brothers wrote a book called switch chip and Ben Heath. I think I love their content and they gave this beautiful analogy. They said, there's an elephant, think of an elephant and a writer on top of the elephant, right?

The elephant represents the emotional part of you. The writer are represents the rational side. He says, and here's what happens. He says, you know, you tell yourself, I got to eat better this year. You rationally say that, but then the emotional elephant who's much stronger than the writer sees the donut and just takes off in that direction. Right. And then sometimes, you know, again, you rashly say, I need to do certain things, but you just can't get the elephant to move. We need to do this. And the elephant won't move. So, but what happens when your goals and your emotional piece, so not logically, you know, you have to do something emotionally. You're in the game. I got to make more sales, right?

I really need to hit certain numbers. Logically. I know what I need to do, right? Mostly I'm in the game because financially I need to make this happen. So now mostly the elephant's in the writer is also in, but people still don't do anything. So then they added the third component, which I thought was like, to me was an aha moment. He said, what you have to do in a phrase they use, you have to shape the path for people. And I thought that was an interesting phrase, shape the path. Here's what they mean. It's like Jenny Craig. Emotionally, no, you got to eat healthier. Logically, you want to do it, but you need somebody to shape the path. And shape the path means let me choreograph the moves for you.

And if I choreograph the moves for you, then that anxiety goes down. And so when I put a stake in the future, I'm actually choreographing my moves, what I need to do to be successful. And I think you do this, but you don't, and we do this, I do this as trainers because we do it subconsciously. Look, I know what you're trying to do. I know how you're trying to scale your business. I know where you want your team to be. I've done that. You know, you walk through the whole pit. So here's what we're going to do. Now you're shaping the path. Phase one, we're going to do this. Phase two, we're going to do this. Phase three, and just having something chunked in phases reduces anxiety because you're shaping the path.

And I thought that was just a beautiful visual. So when I talked to people who don't want to move, I said, I need to help them shape the path. I need to shape their path so they can do it. And I think that it's interesting because, you know, I did the, to your point, subconsciously, even though I actively said it, you know, my theme this year is mental and physical health. Like that's my theme, right? Mental and physical health. I got to get healthier physically. And I also need to make sure mentally I'm strong enough to be able to deal with whatever's coming up. And the way I said it was, you know, Q1 is my Q1 to your point where crazy Q1, it's bananas. I'm going to go bananas in Q1 just because it is what it is.

Q2 though, I'm going to lock down to my training schedule of only Tuesdays and Thursdays. That's it. No ifs, ands, or buts around it with that Friday off. And then Q3, because I have a couple people ramping and whatever, by Q3, I should be able to remove myself from the professional services part of the business and have it run on its own without missing a beat, right? And that to me, I told my team, I go, look, at the end of the year, if we can show that if I take a month off, that the business still runs and is profitable and doesn't need me, the trip that we're going to go on as a team, like the party that we're going to throw is going to be astronomical because that will prove to me that now all of a sudden I have a business and it's not just about me.

So those, and I chunk it out in quarters, right? So, but let's now contrast that with, you know, having a plan I think is a good one, right? Is, is like, what's our goal? Let's back into that goal. Let's put some structure around what those milestones look like. But what about the adaptability part of this? When, when, when you kind of get to a certain stage and you realize like, if I keep going down this path, like if you just kept blindly following your original plan, it's like a meeting with a client. You can walk in with a mental agenda of how you want to see the conversation go, but then all of a sudden the CEO pops into the meeting and you have to adjust. So how do you, uh, uh, how do you adjust for, uh, or, or make room for adaptability?

And when do you decide to adapt based on your original plan? This was accidentally hard coded in the minute, in my first internship. When I told you I worked with the, uh, it was Honeywell undersea systems division, right? And I was working on the, uh, the Mach 50 torpedo system. The one in Hunt for Red October is 46. The next one, next level is the 50 and artificial intelligence. Then was called expert systems. That's what I worked on because it was more rule-based. It wasn't a lot of machine learning. We didn't have the processing power and the way the system work is that the torpedoes dropped into the water from a helicopter or launch from a ship. As soon as it hits the water, it goes into its hunt mode.

It starts hunting. Sonar starts kicking on the pinging begin. The ping is just a sound emitted into environment and it's bouncing off objects. And it's trying to figure out what's the shape of a ship. The way the system works is that it'll bounce, bounce, bounce. And if it sees an underwater rock formation, it says, ah, it's not what I want. It'll come back and say, look, from now on things that don't move, you do not chase because it's probably a rock, right? It goes after a whale. He says, things that are smaller than this, you do not follow. Writes that rule into its algorithm. And then a school of fish properties of school of fish, uh, doesn't have the right density, right? And also turns shifts directions very quickly.

If it doesn't have the density, it doesn't have the speed. Do not chase. That's my mindset. That's how I think about things. When I go into any situation, it's like, it's that algorithm in my head. All right, what didn't work? All right, let's change that. Okay. If it does this, if the customer doesn't do this, if the customer doesn't respond to this, doesn't fill out this form, doesn't do this, don't follow, do not chase. And you start creating these rules and that rule reduces, I go back to the word anxiety because I said, no, no, every time I've seen these things, they don't buy. Just like you, I know that you can figure out why people don't buy. And what you're doing is your algorithm is building all these rules.

And so I think that's the adaptability part. You're just like a torpedo building your algorithm, but you're always thinking eventually I'm going to find my target. So how do you, because this is actually one of the questions I would, if I could get a chance to talk to Gary Vee, I'd ask him, which is, you know, he talks a lot about patience, but also, you know, quickness, right? So you got to be quick as far as failing fast and all these other, but you also have to be patient with your career. So how, how long do you let something go before you determine that it's not the right path? It's not the right approach. It's not the right thing. Like what's your, what's your test case here, if you will, that says I've seen enough of this to realize this, I need to shift, right?

Versus like, cause I think a lot of like, let's bring very tactical stuff. You know, one of our, our call approaches is you don't start with your name first. You don't say, hi, this is John Barrows from JB sales. You start with, Hey, Victor, thanks for taking my call. You got a couple of minutes, right? Or you don't leave a voicemail with, hi, Victor, this is John Barrows from JB sales. You say, Hey, Victor, the reason for my call today is blah, blah, blah. And by the way, this is John Barrows from JB sales. People try that. It's uncomfortable. They don't like it. They don't see a result in making 10, 15, 20 phone calls. So then they revert back to what they used to do. So what's your use case?

What's your test case that tells you I've seen enough where I need to change? That's a tough question to answer. And here's why, and I'm not trying to cop out. I'll give you my best answer. But the reason it's hard is that in the example you cited is some people, because it's not them, it's not natural. They won't sound natural. And it's not that the script is failing them is that their delivery of the script is failing them. So that's always a hard one to predict, right? And on the other side, you don't know what the hell you have. It's like a black box, right? And you don't know what's there either. And so it's a hard question to answer, because I remember in engineering school, we had to put signals into a black box, and you look at the output.

And then you put different signals, and you look at the output. And then eventually, you figure out the circuitry in the box without having to open it. And I think selling is like that to a great extent. You keep putting signals in, you go, all right. And then after a while, you just simply don't know. When I think Gary Vee talks about patience, I think he's just getting older. This is a positive, not a negative. This is a positive, right? Because before, he was just da-da-da-da-da, you know, whatever it may be, you know, and 100 curse words within a span of time, right? And so what I think he's finding is what we're finding, that as we get older, what we do is we just look more, we just observe more, and we just take that extra time.

And maybe it's that extra 30 seconds to look at something. And then I also think what happens is that patience ties into the following. When you're a patient, and you're not trying to run and gun in your brain and try to be all quick-witted, when you slow down that conversation, like I'm doing with you right now, in your brain, you can ask more incisive questions. You can develop more incisive questions. And then something else also kicks in. You grow some balls, if I can say this, because as we get older, we ask the tougher questions that younger salespeople will not ask, because they don't have the confidence or the experience. And it's how you deliver that question. I mean, you've done this to people, because I've done this to people.

I just stopped the conference, I said, look, before we go any further, let me just ask you one question, because this will tell me everything I need to know. And then, boom, you know what I mean? And in many cases, have you found it, you get a more genuine conversation? 100%. Because what did you just do? You slowed down that conversation. That's what he's talking about, patience. I think that's how I see it. When he talks about that, he goes, he's maturing. And I don't mean that as a knock on Gary. I'm not saying that. No. That he's understanding the value of patience more than he did in the past. Yeah, you hear all great athletes, they say that at a certain point, the game slows down for them.

At a certain point, it's almost like they're going through slow, they're in regular mode, and everything else is in slow motion, and they can kind of see it a lot more clearly. And there's a moment where that, you know, for some of us, it's really early on in our careers, because we're just bred like that, in the sense that that's ingrained in us internally. But, you know, for others, it is a experience, like you've been doing something for so long that eventually you can start to, and I kind of chunk things out in groups of 10, right? In your 20s, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. So you're always looking up, looking for permission, basically. 30s, you kind of still feel like you're, you feel like you've arrived, you're doing well, that type of stuff.

But you're still kind of holding on to your 20s. And you're still looking up to the people in their 40s and their 50s, right? You still think you're cool, partying, whatever. And then when you hit your 40s, you kind of start talking about things. And I don't know about if this happened for you, but in my 40s, like when I would start just talking what I would just generally think about sales, for instance, to somebody who was new in sales, something that I thought was so basic, they'd be like, holy shit, dude, that's fucking genius. Like what? And I'd be like, wait a minute, but that's like, isn't that common? And it's not. It's that 10,000 hours. It's that whatever it is that you do something enough where you, yes, and let's go back to the script.

You read a script when you first start because you don't know what you don't know. And you just need a structure and a guideline to that. But then you make that script your own. Then you find your language to it. Then you find that transition. And that's where the magic happens in so many ways. I like the phrase about, I like the example of basketball players. And I've always loved that phrase. You slow down to speed up a sale because as we walk through it, we just don't leap over things anymore. We're like, wait a minute, what's that? You said this, what's that? Where before we would just kind of go, let's keep going. And I think that's where the patient piece. So it's hard for me to say, you know, how do you know when to give up on something?

I think you just have to ask tougher questions and qualify harder. But I say with this, with this gentle patience and people seem to respond to that. This is what I'm finding. And you go back to the authenticity and the realness factor of the no bullshit, like the script and the pitch and the slide deck and all that other stuff versus having a legit conversation with somebody and assuming that they're not a good fit. You know what I mean? Assuming they might be a good fit, but I actually qualify out more than I qualify in. You know, I'm asking you all the questions like, wait a minute, why is training, why is the training the fix for that? Why wouldn't you buy a software? Why don't you hire more people?

Like, what do you think training is going to do? And it's almost like I try to get them to convince me that what I have is the right fit as opposed to me trying to convince them that what I have is the right fit. It's almost like the takeaway, right? Yeah. I said, you know, why should I even do this? And I think that you have to have a certain level of confidence and courage to do that. And a lot of people don't have that because they're so desperate for business that they don't do that. And that's the blessing we have, right? When you got enough clients, you can go, I don't know, maybe I want you, maybe I don't. Let's talk about this. And that's where, I mean, early in your career, you kind of go back to doing what you're supposed to do.

You got to make the calls. You got to, but then when you can start to see how important pipeline is and how important really focusing on your, the real ICP of who you're going after, not just anybody that fits your list. I mean, I tell that to entrepreneurs all the time. Anybody who goes out on their own, the, the, the, the, the danger that I see most entrepreneurs who start businesses, um, they take on any type of revenue just so that they can pay the bills and I understand that I've been there before multiple times where whoever the fuck's willing to send a check, I'm doing work for the problem with that is, yeah, the problem is, is that if, if it's not a good fit, if it's not exactly what you do and it's going to be mediocre at best, it's going to then take you away from focusing on the clients that you would bring the highest value to.

And you're going to have all this messy shit that you're going to have to deal with as you try to scale the business, which is going to hold you back. So as much as you can, if you, and those, for those of you listening out there who want to go off and start your own business, you know, I try to put yourself, I mean, I'd like to talk about your risk profile real, real quick to finish this up, but you know, I'm a calculated risk taker in the sense that I don't just jump into anything with no insights and say, fuck it, let's see what happens here. Like I need, there need to be pieces in play, but I also don't overanalyze. So I'm like, all right, you know what those pieces, right? So, you know, I think, I think we're the same in that category that we analyze things.

And by the way, so the question to answer your question, you said something interesting is that we've all taken on those clients that we know we shouldn't have taken on. Damn it. We had, you know, we kick ourselves and you're like, ah, what? And, and, but if you look back, you needed the buddy, whatever the situation was you were in, there was different decision-making process going on. And so that's why it's a hard question to ask. When do you give up on something? Because it really depends on your level. The thing is, if we're comfortable financially and we're moving up that, that Maslow's hierarchy very comfortably, right? We're not in survival mode. Our decision-making process is totally different.

We'll say no. Right. But I think people are starting out. They're just trying to make it happen. So, yeah, look, I worked it in, man. I worked it in, by the way. Make it happen. I love it. I love it, man. Did I send you one of these yet? I got to send you one of these. No, man, you have a large. Thank you. All right. I will send it. When I get back to the States, I'll send you one. Because I think that's the key there is the, you know, fail fast, but don't give up too soon. I think that's the dynamic I'm trying to figure out is how do you fail fast, but not give up too soon on something? Because if you just made that, again, super tactical, if you just made that one extra phone call, if you just asked that one extra question, it would have tipped the scale, right?

Versus, ah, this isn't something. So let me move on. Because I think that's where people get stuck in this. They fail too many times because they didn't give it enough of a chance. And then they just go back to doing what they're supposed to do, which was what other people told them to do. You just reminded me. You know what I hate, John? You know what I hate? I hate overhyped motivational speakers. Just to say that, because here's what happens. I think they damage people. And this goes to your point. And that is, they'll say, look, you know, buy this program, you'll get this. Buy this, you'll get that. And so what happens is you got the young mind walking into this going, yeah, yeah, stars, right?

That's going to happen. They then go and try to implement it and it doesn't work. And then they feel like they failed. And then they fail again. And all of a sudden people get discouraged. What they don't tell you, especially a lot of these speakers, what they don't tell you is that the reason they're successful, well, first of all, they're selling you their product. That's why they're successful. Let's keep, put that one out. But in many cases, something happened. There was an unintended consequence that gave them a boost that helped them reach a level and legitimately they reached that level, but it's not duplicatable. You can't do it that same way. And I think a lot of people get, you know, when we talk about selling and I'm working with salespeople and I'm coaching them, I like to use the inoculation effect, which is telling them, look, you're going to get your teeth kicked in.

That's part of the game, you know, and it's going to hurt a lot. You're going to screw up a presentation. And then when it does happen, they go, well, Victor said it was going to happen. And they're still motivated to move forward because he said it was going to happen as opposed to like, everything's great. Just use this. It'll work. So I really hate the, you know, you know what I mean, those speakers just kind of overhype the thing and says, come on, let's be real about it. That's why I like your, I'm a realist. I'm not an optimist. I'm not a pessimist. I'm a realist. If I lean, obviously more towards optimism, but I think that's where a lot of people get damaged because they see other people making millions of dollars.

And then they're saying, why can't I? We go back to comparing ourselves again. Yep. No, I think that's a dangerous game to compare. It's good to, it's good to pay attention, but compare, you should only be comparing yourself to, to who's ever in the mirror right there. So last question here before we wrap up, what's, what's something that isn't being talked about enough right now that should be in 2021? Let's, and let's be specific about sales, right? I think a lot of people will talk about, you know, remote selling video agility, those type of things, but what do you think that is not being talked about enough right now for the success of 2021? I'm fascinated by two things right now. One is, and they both kind of tie together, is content creation slash content management systems.

In other words, what's happening is we know this already. So the buyer's finding their way, right? And so I'm saying, okay, the buyer's finding their way. This is me just throwing my thought process. They're trying to find their way. You never know how, what touch points are going to be, are they're going to use to get to you how many touch points they're going to have. So we're using AI to try to figure this out, right? So the marketing department now has to create content to meet the buyer at these different stages in their buyer journey. How do we do that? Do you know what I mean? How do we do that effectively? Because I think what's happening to the salesperson, I used to laugh at marketing, man.

You know, remember that John Wanamaker thing, 50% of marketing, you don't know where it's spent. And so now what I see now is that marketing has taken a primary role to sales. I don't know if you agree with this, but marketing is in the lead right now. They're doing all the conditioning. They're doing all the heavy lifting for us. I don't care what anybody says. So I think that's a big piece. So it's how do we, what type of content should we be producing? One, the interview with your boy, James Buckley, say what sales, which is a fun interview, a great interview. And, you know, we talked about personal branding online. And I think that, that right now has to be pushed more to the forefront. So I think you guys are in the right space pushing that forward.

So I love the fact that you're doing that because we have to see ourselves as an extension of the company we work for, if you're working for a company and the whole branding part you guys talk about, I think is a big push forward. What Daniel Disney talks about with link, you know, social selling that stuff that's push. So that's a big one. The other thing is I read a great book called, uh, selling is hard, uh, selling is hard, buying is harder. And it was all about, uh, Garen has talks about how, what happens when you do the demo, right? And then you schedule the second demo and there's that space in between. And his whole approach in his book is about how do we create content, specifically videos to kind of bridge those behind the door conversations to get to the CMO, the CEO, the CXO.

And I think that to me is a fascinating topic. How do we create content that we can kind of give to our champion and arm the champion to do battle in these large enterprise companies. So those are things I don't think we're talking about the content management side. How is that going to play into the buyer journey? And then how do we create content to sell beyond the wall to give to our champions? That's those two things I think are really important coming up. I like that. Yeah. I, I, I have a similar mentality. So my mark, my background is marketing. Um, this is at least my degree, isn't it? Um, but that I think sales reps need to take a much bigger, uh, page from marketing these days and think about this as an impression world.

Like we are in an impression world, a positive impression world where they see us, they hear us. So that, that, that comment on their LinkedIn post, that, um, that voicemail that never gets called back, but might get listened to is all leaving an impression so that when the time is right, you're the one that they are there to call. And it's a long play. It's definitely brand building and sharing content or creating content is, is definitely a long-term play. There's very rarely that you're going to post somebody and something and somebody is going to come back and say, Hey, let's do business together. But that positive brand. And that's why I think also companies are going to have to get a lot more comfortable with sales reps, having their own brands within the company that the, and allowing them to do that.

I mean, one of the reasons James left one of his previous positions was because he was doing James say what sales and he was getting really successful with people coming on his podcast and all those different things and webinars. But his company, the marketing department of his firm didn't like it because they couldn't control it. And that's where you, they lost an extremely valuable employee, like somebody like James, who's going to bring, yeah, he's going to have a million conversations and probably 95% of them are going to be so irrelevant to your business. But that 5% that he's going to attract to your business, it's going to be excellent, exponentially more than the 50 cold calls that that other rep made.

Right. Cause it's a positive brand impression that he's putting out there. You know, you know, what's funny that if you, cause I've had to deal with marketing my past life and you know, it was just difficult to deal with. Cause I, as a sales guy knew what I needed and market was like, no, we need to be more aesthetically pleasing. We need to follow the set. And you're like, just give me what I want, but they wouldn't do it. And what winds up happening? What is it? 70, 80% of the materials never use salespeople create their own crap anyway. But what's interesting about, uh, look at what James is trying to do and your team's trying to do with the branding is that if you had said to like a company and you bet, look, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to make our salespeople do pull double duty, which is do sales and marketing. Do you think they'll go for it? They probably said, no, they're not going to go for it today. They're willing to do it, but companies are holding them back from doing it for fear. As you point out, losing control. And I think that's where they're losing big. I think they need to be brand extensions of the company, you know, within some guidelines, don't go nuts and promising, but you know, it can, it can happen. Yeah. And I think that with those guidelines, let them, let them be free. And then let's go back to let them fail fast. You know what I mean? If they're doing something that's not working after a quarter or two, then fine shift and adjust.

But, but if you're not trying new things out right now, if you're still sticking onto what was and not trying out what is and what could be, you're, you're going to lead a very painful life here. And especially in 2021, because if there's anything that 2020 taught us, it's quality over quantity in so many ways. It's, you know, people, you know, I don't know about you, but I, I really, it helped me really understand who I did care about and who were important in my life because I was calling people. Those are the people that I phone, I called to check in on to see how they were doing family, all that other stuff. And customers, same thing. It got, I mean, there were some customers that I, I really genuinely thanked for sticking with us through the mess.

Like VK over at prolific. I mean, I did a podcast with him recently. We're going to do a webinar coming up here. I mean, he literally, he was the last flight. Okay. So I was, everything canceled. I had APAC, I had EMEA and I had U S and I was on a flight to Chicago from Boston and it was the last one because everything else had been canceled. And I get this text, John, are you still in town? Are you still in Boston? I'm like, yes. Why? He goes, I got, unfortunately I got it canceled. I'm like, shit. So I run off the plane. But what he did was he called me back and said, Hey, um, send me the invoice. He goes, send me the invoice. He's like, I know you didn't deliver it, but I know you're a small business.

And I know this money is going to mean more to you than it is to us through this time. I love that, dude. That's, that's, that's bravo to him, man. I had a couple of those, by the way, one was a really big one. Yeah. And they're saying, you know what? It's going to be, you know, 2021, but you know, we'll know you'll deliver Victor. So here you go. And I think that, you know, uh, not to end on Gary Vee, but let's get back to Gary Vee's book, the thank you economy. And his whole thing was, you say, thank you. You know what I mean? You really thank the people that support you. And I think that's a great point you make, man. Yeah. The, the, I think the, the gratitude and is one thing I've been continuous.

I actually even have a little notebooks is, you know, gratitude journal. And this is all the things I'm happy. Every day I just write down something that, that I'm, that I'm thankful for. And that shifts a huge part of your mentality in a positive state. So I think there's, you know, love it, man. John, man, you're like full of wisdom today, man. Just, oh, please, man. Like, no, this is, I think it's, it's, uh, I don't know where it's the fresh air and Aruba here or whatever, but, uh, but we're having fun. Um, look, uh, Victor, how, what do you want people to know about? I know you have a course coming out, uh, a new course masterclass coming out. Talk to us a little bit about the virtual engagement masterclass, you know, doing the sales after dark for a hundred episodes and then also doing, you know, uh, presentations to company.

I figured out the engagement game, you know, and how to keep people into the game mentally into a conversation for at least more than an hour. Do you know what I mean? At least go an hour. And so I want to go through some of the basics that, uh, go through some of the equipment, go through some of the techniques. So it's a great class. If you just go to victorantonio.com, you'll find the information. And that's the big thing that's happening this year, man. Like I said, aside from me trying to do my six hour sprints, only four times a day. Love it. I love it, man. Uh, and, uh, and you're on Instagram, you're on all the other ones too, right? So they can find you pretty much. And the sales influence podcast, if you get a chance, the sales influence podcast is out there as well, man.

So just trying to keep up with guys like you, brother. Ah, please, man. You're leading the way. You're leading the way. Let's, uh. Thank you for having me, man. No, thanks for coming on. I always love having these conversations, just, you know, business life, you know, all these different things. They all play together. And if we can't figure out how to make them all work, then, you know, we got to be doing something a little different these days. So, yeah, I think the big, if I can just say, I love the fact that you, you really hit on this. Cause I haven't talked about this with anybody. So I really love the fact that you've taken some time to say, you know, let's be human for a second. I mean, let's just be human for a second and say, you know, we have to live our lives, that whole thing.

And so cool. I'm glad you emphasize that, man. That's cool. And by the way, realize that other people are human too, in the sense that that person on the other end of that phone, the person on the end of that like email, they are people and they are going through their own shit. So if they react poorly to whatever you're doing, it's probably not you. It's probably them. And give them a break for it because I think we all need a little bit of a leeway these days based on what's going on. Amen to that, man. Awesome, brother. Well, thank you so much for coming on. For everybody else, look, I hope you got as much value out of this conversation as I did. Definitely go check Victor out. He's got some great books, some great podcasts and putting a ton of awesome content out there.

And like I always say, and I think to now it is more important than ever, no matter how bad your day goes, right? Go out and make somebody smile today. Cause if you make somebody smile today, you know, you had a good day in this world needs a lot more of that right now. So Victor, thank you again for coming on, man. I appreciate it. Thank you, John. All right. Cheers, brother. Guys, Victor has been amazing. I want to thank him for coming out to the show. His insights have helped me both personally and professionally. Experience like Victor's can help us see the bigger picture, help us slow down to take more information in and have us having more meaningful conversations with prospects and customers.

Thanks again for coming out to the show, Victor. What a great conversation with John. Visit ondemand.jbarrows.com to gain access to all of our training. Tips and additional content. You could be the top performer in your sales organization this year with JB Sales in your corner. The success that you're looking for won't come without an investment from you personally. We look forward to being a catalyst for that sales growth, professional advancement, upward mobility, and promotion that you all deserve. Sign up today and get started at jbsales at ondemand.jbarrows.com. See you next week, everybody.