43: Customer Success And Sales with Emmanuelle Skala

Thanks for listening to the Make It Happen podcast. Make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you enjoyed the show, let me know by leaving a review or sharing your favorite episode with your team. Hey everybody, good morning. This is John Barrows with Make It Happen Mondays. Hopefully you all had a fantastic weekend like I did. I did some selling Girl Scout cookies with my daughter, which was super fun. So did I. Oh, you did? No way. That's awesome. So I'm here with Emanuel. I'm super excited to be here with a good friend of mine, actually, Emanuel. Emanuel, introduce yourself to everybody on the audience here and tell them a little bit about the background of, first of all, how we met and also kind of what you're doing these days with Toast.

Cool. So Emanuel Scala, I'm running our customer success team here at Toast in Boston. And people may not know much about Toast because you don't see us at a lot of the typical SaaS conferences because we sell to the restaurant community. But we're one of the fastest growing companies in Boston, up to about 800 employees right now, and kind of growing like crazy. So it's been a lot of fun. I've been at Toast since September, so pretty new. And I've also jumped from being head of sales for my last few gigs to now running customer success. So it's a little bit of a change for me. John and I met when I was running sales at a company called Influitive. Before that, I was running a channel at Sophos.

I was running inside sales at VM Turbo, and I also ran sales and customer success at DigitalOcean. So I've been doing most of the sales thing, but more recently shifting to CS. Awesome. And that's what we're here to talk about. First of all, you're being a little modest, by the way. Weren't you running third fastest growing company in the country, not just Boston here? Yeah, so Deloitte 500 fastest growing companies, we were doing phenomenally well, not just in Massachusetts, but across the country. Yeah, that's bananas. So congrats on that. And what we're here, the reason I wanted to bring you on board here to have a conversation about customer success, and the reason is because I'm actually starting to see a lot of clients of mine who typically engage with me on the sales side of the house ask me about, hey, do you have anything for customer success?

And so, because most of these organizations are looking for customer success to cross-sell, up-sell, and now these kids are starting to have quotas. And it's funny what I'm seeing, there's this perception of sales and customer success where it's almost like, gross, no. I absolutely do not want to, like, you bring the word sales into the equation of customer success, and there's almost this visceral reaction, like, ew, gross, leave me alone. And to me, it's a lot of perception reality just in general about the perception of sales for most. But talk to me about how and why, first of all, you went from VP of sales to customer success and what that journey was. And then, you know, how are you reshaping the mentality of sales, if you will, for your customer success team now you're at Toast?

Yeah, so you're right. There is a little bit of a sort of an initial reaction of, you know, used car salesman or something along that line. My journey, so I was always sort of a customer-obsessed sales leader, right? I would, you know, I was always looking at sales reps to not just sell any deal and not just close any deal, but ensure that they're closing the right deals, right? And make sure that it's, you know, aligning, you know, with our vision and our mission, ensure that the customer is really brought in and is set up for success, you know, at the very beginning. Can I ask, I'm going to pause right there? Yeah, go ahead. It's actually important because I think a lot of sales reps do not have that mentality coming into sales.

They're like, whatever, let me get my sale. I don't care. I'm going to get my commission. So why did you have that early on in your sales career? What, was there something that somebody said to you or was there something that you just noticed that why it was so important to bring on the right customers, just not any customer? So it's a great question. It was sort of an evolution. So I'm like my background, like even before I got into sales is in operations, right? And so I, like factory operations originally, like right out of college, I worked at Intel and then moved into sales operations. And so initially my, as a sales leader, I was all about like efficiency, efficiency, like finding the most efficient way to market, you know, so I ran channel sales for a while.

I ran inside sales for a while. And what I started to notice though, is that as sales was going up the efficiency line, as we were squeezing more and more out of every dollar that we were spending in sales and we were improving our CAC, we were actually killing this customer satisfaction. So there was a direct, there was like an inverse correlation, right? And so, and I was finding that companies that were really good at the top of the funnel were actually starting to not necessarily be really good at the bottom of the funnel and were having funnels, right? And so I started thinking, well, you know, as a sales leader who was obsessed with, you know, efficiency, I was actually causing another problem right down the line.

And, and it was impacting me in the long run because these days buyers really trust two things. They trust their own experience or they trust their, the, the experience of their peers. And if they don't have a great experience or if their peers aren't having a great experience because they were oversold or the, you know, or they, or they just, they weren't even a good fit to begin with. It just, they weren't part of like an ideal customer of their profile. Then that, the word was going to spread very quickly, really, really quickly. And with social media and, you know, online reviews and all sorts of other things, the word spreads really quickly. And so it was actually making it harder for my reps to get that next deal because it was like, well, you know, I heard some not so great things about you or people weren't willing to take, you know, necessarily phone calls or were, you know, or, or entering into a sales process with a lot of trepidation, meaning that the sales rep had, you know, had to work harder to close the deal.

And so, and then also as a, as the leader, you know, in sales, when, you know, I'm being measured on total ARR or total MRR of the company, right? And if there's a leaky funnel at the bottom, right, then I just have to keep filling it more. So while, yeah, maybe my quota is a million dollars, right? But now if we lost more than we expected, so now all of a sudden I have to make it up. And next thing you know, my quota is $1.5 million, right? Just using that math. So it was making my job harder, you know, at the end of the day, my job was so much harder, not focusing in on, you know, right fit customers and, you know, doing what we can do to make the customer journey overall successful. So that's why I jumped.

You know, I, I wanted to, I wanted to see if I could influence our overall customer journey and customer experience by being the leader on the other side, having a lot of empathy for what the sales reps go through and how hard that of a job, the sales reps job is, but also giving them more empathy for how hard the CS job is. Yeah. And I think that, you know, what's interesting is because I'm an all about that ideal customer profile. And because first of all, the sale ends up becoming so much easier once you really hone in on that perfect fit, right? The challenge I see with a lot of reps is that most, not most, a lot of leadership doesn't share your same mentality of bringing on the right customers.

They'd still beat these kids over the head with, you know, make your 50 dials, get your pipeline, you know, you know, but you know, I look at, first of all, those are probably companies that I don't want to be a part of anyways, if I'm a sales rep. But second of all, you know, if you're the way I, and trying to translate this to the audience here, if, if your goals are to become in leadership, to become like, you have to be paying attention to this stuff now. And if you're in one of those churn and burn type organizations that you're just trying to get deals in and they're losing, look to see what happens, right? With the, with the success of the company, how hard it is to sell. And also just the overall, you know, just success of the organization, right?

Because over time it's going to, it's going to, it will pay, it will come back over time, right? You may not see it in the first year or the first or the second year, but you know, once those renewal cycles start heading, you're going to, you're going to see it, right? And the other thing too, I don't know about you, but I would hope that sales rep would feel crappy, you know, selling a deal and then that deal churning, you know, three months later, six months later, a year later, whatever, you know, whatever it is, you know, because it wasn't, it wasn't the right fit. You know, when you're, when you're recommending a product to somebody, you're putting your own personal, you know, reputation and your own credibility on the line, right?

And if, you know, if your customer's coming back and saying, oh, well, you told me it would do this, or you told me it would be a good fit here, or you told me I could do this and, and, and it wasn't quite true, right? Then, you know, you just, you know, I don't know, your, your reputation's on the line, right? And, and the word will get out. It's a small, it's, you know, the world is a small, you know, small place, right? You almost, you want, you want your buyers to give you amazing reviews, right? And, you know, in terms of like, yes, this person was great to work with. They were super consultative. They really helped me through their problem. You know, you know, they told me what the, you know, what, you know, like they told me how to set myself up for success.

They told me what some of the, the common traps that customers fall into. And I was ready for those. Absolutely. Yeah. No, you'd hope so. I mean, I think there's, with the whole predictable revenue model though, I think we're getting a little bit away from, you know what I mean with the segmentation of roles. Cause I think at least when I was first started selling the, I did the whole sales cycle and, and, you know, when I was also a startup, you know, founder of a startup. And so I saw the direct impact of bringing on the wrong customers versus the right customer because I managed them through the whole sales process. So I had that. I think there's a little bit of a disconnect these days with the SDR, BDR, AE model of, Hey, let's just get as many leads as possible because, and look, some, some reps do it really well and they really do care.

But then unfortunately, sometimes they get smacked over the head because their numbers aren't where some of the other reps who don't care as much, which I think we're in this real weird middle ground right now of transition of that model in general. I think that, I don't know about you. I'd love to get your perspective on the whole, the whole model in general and where you see evolving to because I don't see the SDR, BDR, AECS. I don't see that as customer centric in any way, shape or form. Nobody likes to get passed off 15 times to get an answer between something. So do you see any shifts or I know we're taking this off in a little bit of a different conversation, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.

You know, do you see this model changing over the, over the next few years? I do. I think, I mean, it somewhat depends on how transactional the sale is. You know, the more transactional it is, actually the interesting thing, the more transactional it is, the more likely there is going to be to be a handoff, right? You know, throughout the process. So that's one, the more enterprise and the more strategic it is, the more likely that the single person is going to own the entire life cycle. One thing I do see a shift happening is there's two shifts that I think happening. One is I actually see that from a leadership perspective, leaders caring and, and being compensated and measured on things that are full customer life.

So maybe not the individual. So the individual may still have, you know, a BDR job or an AE job or a CS job, but their manager cares about everything, right? So that way their manager is going to put in place the right processes and the right incentives, you know, down. So for example, right, one thing I see fairly frequently is if a, if a deal churns within X period of time, whatever the, you know, the company dictates, right? It can get clawed back, right? From, from the rep, right? Or if a, if a, you know, if an account never goes live for whatever reason, because once the CS people got into onboarding, they uncovered it wasn't a great fit, you know, the rep doesn't get paid at all. You know, or I've also seen reps, um, carrying, uh, churn, um, and retention metrics, right?

Even if they're not the ones doing the, the, uh, you know, doing the actual retention activity, right? Um, carrying those metrics or the, the manager carrying those metrics. So I do think leadership, you know, is, is revolve, is like kind of evolving to one, you know, one revenue person, right? Um, it was not the CRO, right? Like centrally the CRO. Yep. Yeah. Cause I mean, that's, I, I came to the conclusion a little while ago cause you know, CRO probably popped up. I don't know, like that title really started to take hold maybe four or five years ago, something like that, give or take. And it, to me, it was the realization. It was almost kind of almost because sales and marketing couldn't get along.

Um, you know, so you get your VP of sales and your CMO and they're constantly beating it up and the CEO is just like, I don't want to deal with you two. Shut the hell up. I'm going to hire somebody to basically be your parent. Um, but, but also now with customer success being a critical component of it. And, and let me ask you, who do you report to over at TOS? The CEO. The CEO. So do you have a CRO yet? No. So we have, we have a head of sales. Yep. Um, and, uh, and then, and a head of marketing and a head of CS, right? Okay. So they're all reporting. So you, so you, that's how important this role is. I mean, you report directly to the CEO, right? Yeah, no, this is, this is, it must report directly to the CEO.

Unless there is a, you know, a CRO who owns, uh, who owns the entire thing, all revenue, which I do think is actually the, you know, the ideal situation is that you have a CRO who owns all revenue, including retention, cross sell, upsell. Right. Um, and who's really, you know, who's looking after it, because then you don't have like the, the debate about top of the funnel versus bottom of the funnel. And you don't have a sales leader saying, I don't really give a shit if the, you know, the funnel is leaky. And if these customers turn and then, you know, and a CS leader, you know, looking at their number and thinking there's no way I can ever hit it because we're getting handed bad deals from the beginning, right?

Um, which you see as, as typical. And then in that case, the CEO ends up being, you know, sort of the moderator. Um, yeah, I do think that, uh, well, I agree with you that like the old school way of selling, you know, has been, you know, numbers, numbers, numbers, just sell anything you can. I am starting to see more and more sales leaders, A, take on, um, for that, you know, kind of total revenue, um, leadership perspective, but also, uh, you know, care because at least at the executive level, if, you know, the, the sales leader should be bonused and measured on not just incremental ARR, but total ARR, which includes churn, right? So they apps, because they have to be measured in the same way that the board looks at the business.

So they absolutely need to care. Um, and I think it's, you know, you can rely on the rep to, you know, have their individually want to be customer centric, but really it's up to the managers in the organization to put into place, right? You know, the processes. So whether that's be like better discovery or something that we put in at an influitive was a, um, uh, even up at the BDR level was a red, yellow, green. We had a pretty detailed description of what our ideal customer profile. And, and, and we had rules that was like, okay, if, if it looks like, and smells like the green, just go ahead. You don't even have to ask anybody. One of these, one of these things, you know, comes up, right. Then it yellow, like talk to your manager, right.

Before you pass it on, talk to your manager, talk to the AE. And if it's one of these things, it's red. Don't even pass it. And if you do, you're not going to get credit for it, right. Because, you know, it is red. We don't want to sell to companies like this right now. Um, spending time defining what those, that red, yellow, green is, is super important. And then you don't, then you're, you just don't give your reps the chance to pass on red stuff. No, I love it. And that's why I keep reinforcing everybody that ideal customer profile, like as a rep, if you, you're probably get given your basic ideal customer, you know, you know, this, this many employees, these industries, but man, the nuances make the difference.

Oh, completely. It's nuances, like, you know, something, something, yeah. The personnel, if you're, if you're a startup, right. And you're selling to early adopters, right. So what are the characteristics, you know, that you're going to be able to identify in the sales process that's going to indicate whether they're an early adopter or not, right. The thing to do is profile all your successful customers and then, and then you're not successful customers and figure out like, is there a correlation, right. Is there something about all the ones that haven't been successful that's common? Is there something about all the ones that have been successful that's common? And this is where you can work with your marketing team or, you know, the whole revenue team can come together and define that.

I was going to say, like, what you need to do is you don't just have your sales team talk about what's a success look like. You bring customer success in and you bring finance in because the finance, you know, the sales rep is going to say whoever spends the most money, the customer success is going to say who's ever the least pain in the ass. And then the finance person is going to say who's the most profitable, right. Yeah. And who has the longest LTV, right. Who's the best LTV, right. Exactly. Yeah. And that's like, so the role of like sort of a revenue ops or a finance team or something along that lines. Right. Because, you know, if this, if you can, if you can get great ARR by selling to a company, but they're more likely to churn or less likely to upsell or whatever it is, their overall LTV of this selling to this industry or this size company or this characteristic is low.

That's great data to, that's great data to have to go forward. I would actually recommend anybody, any leaders out there who are looking to engage with their sales teams and their customer success to literally have like a company-wide meeting where head of customer success, head of sales and finance all get together and just like dig through your top five clients and why they're your best five clients. Right. Completely. Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely agree. I think, you know, you said something at the very beginning, right. The more CS is evolving itself from an organization that has like just been about, you know, onboarding and customer sat and sort of soft stuff and a little bit hard to measure unless you have a churn problem, right.

And then you measure it in retention, but if you don't have a churn problem, like Toast doesn't have a churn problem. Right. So yeah. Then like, how do you measure the influence when you don't have a churn problem, but it's a thing from the softer stuff, right. To definitely more of a, you know, of a revenue role, you know, in and of itself. And it's not, I think, you know, it's very different than obviously a new sales role because you're, you're trying to grow revenue within an existing, you know, existing account base and customers who are already, yeah, bought into the vision of your company. And it's not a hard sale. It's, you know, it's a, you know, it's more of a consultative, right. You know, if there's something that you need because it's going to help you grow your business or it's going to, you know, help you meet your, your objectives, then a CS person will, will sell it.

But, you know, we're generally the differences, is there not, you know, is revenue is not their only goal. And, you know, and it's, and the bonus of a CS person is significantly smaller than a bonus of a sales rep. So it doesn't become as much of a leading indicator or leading factor. You know, it was funny. It was a while back, about two years ago, there was a post that I saw on LinkedIn where some CEO was like, Hey, I'm never going to hire sales, another sales rep as long as I run companies. And his point was, look, sales reps are all incentivized for the wrong reasons. It's end of month and a quarter commission. So it's not customer centric at all. And what he said was, he's going to, you know, invest heavily in marketing and drive inbound leads and then hire customer success people to take those and not really, you know, pay them higher salaries, whatever, but not commission them and really just help the customer through the journey.

And when I tell you, I haven't seen a post explode like this in a long time, like, and it was 50, 50, like 50% of the people are like, yeah, right on screw sales. And the other 50% of like, screw you, you're shitting all over my profession. Right. And, and when I had to comment, obviously, but my comment to him was this is like, look, everything that you just described about sales is what bad sales professionals do. Everything that you just described about customer success is what actually good sales reps do. Exactly. There's really not a huge difference. If you really pay, if you just take the word sales out of the equation, there's really not a hell of a lot of difference between a really good sales rep and a really good customer success rep.

Yeah. And that's like, I actually had, well, so my old CEO at DigitalOcean, he might've even written that post, but, but that is, that's exactly, that's exactly what we did. And yeah, I was, my joke was like, I don't honestly care what we call it. We can call it foo, right? Like it doesn't actually matter what it's called. Right. But the idea is that, right. That there is a human being, right. Who wants to talk to an existing customer or a prospective customer, right. To help them understand our solution. Right. And help them, you know, with adoption of the product. Right. And help them meet their goals. Period. Right. Like that is it. And, you know, and frankly, it was actually, it was another post recently that I saw about, it wasn't as explicit, but it did say something like, should, should we stop commissioning sales?

Like, are we incenting sales in the wrong way? And I commented on it. I'm like, well, I think that, listen, I'm a big believer in goals and, and have, you know, some kind of goal and metric that's tied to the, the company's goals and metrics. So I don't think it's that you have to stop commissioning salespeople. I just think you need to figure out how to align their incentives with the incentives of the company. Right. And so if, you know, for instance, here at Toast, the sales rep will get paid partially unbooking, but the rest of their commission doesn't come until go live. So they're incented to ensure that, you know, that's a successful launch and a successful go live. Right. And so they're working with the implementation team that, that is reports under me really carefully to make sure that that happens.

And so when aligning, it's all you got to do is align incentives and then you don't have that sort of sales, you know, kicks bad deals over and, you know, and customer success doesn't know how to sell sort of mentality. It's funny. Um, I, when I was 25 and started my first company doing outsourced IT services and I was the VP, I was the only sales guy. And then we finally started hiring. Um, uh, you know, we had a really good PR person and I got in a magazine and it was cause we had a model is before predictable revenue, but it was predictable revenue. Cause I had broken down the sales process into opening processing and closing. And I caught in it and the actual title was kill the commissions.

Yeah. And it was, it was my philosophy on, yes, I'm going to pay you some commissions based on your individual roles, but we are going to get much. I provided bonuses, quarterly bonuses that were rather significant if we, as a team hit our target. And then I also come to you cause we did MRR, like that's what, like, so if you say our average deal size was 3,500 bucks a month, I would pay you one month, uh, commission on your, on your deal. But if that client churned within six months, I came and took that money back. Yeah. Like I straight up said, sorry, that money's coming off the table. I'm, I'm taking that $3,500 back and you know, and it was amazing what that did to the, to the, uh, uh, approach from sales reps and what clients they started bringing in.

Cause I, cause originally I was bringing on the ideal customer profile cause I knew it. Right. But then when I started hiring sales reps, they were bringing on anything and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We can't do this. And that's where that came from. So it's, uh, I, you know, what's old is new again, right? You know, one thing which really surprises me is that, uh, the sales leader and the CS, if they are two different people, a sales leader and the CS leader or line managers or any, anybody in management don't get together often enough to compare before 2000, you know, before you starting your year to actually align compliance, simple thing of, okay, let's dig into the details of exactly how a sales rep is paid and exactly how a CS person is paid and align those, um, surprises me.

And I mean, I've seen examples of, um, comp plans where like the, the upsell revenue is whoever does it. Well, like that, that you're instantly causing inside your own organization, you're instantly come, you know, infighting about like, you know, who's going to upsell or something along the line of, um, you know, like, or, or incenting the sales rep to do, you know, sell everything upfront, right. When that might not be the right model for a customer, right. Maybe the best model is, you know, more of a land and expand model, right. Where you, you know, you get a customer and then over time you grow that customer. If, if, if there are not incented to do that, then they'll sell everything up front.

And that might be actually the worst thing for the customer. So something as simple as just, let's really think through what, what motivation we're putting on our teams. Um, it can go, you know, can go a long way. I love it. Well, we've got about five minutes left here. I did want to highlight a couple of things because I read your article and for those of you who are listening on the podcast here, um, go Google, uh, sales for life and the title of it, stop over promising five tactics you need to align sales and customer success. Um, but for those of us who are watching it on, on Facebook here, um, let's talk briefly. I mean, there's, there's five things in here, but what are some of the things that you think like, what are like, like one or two of the top things as a sales rep I should be doing to make sure that my customers are set up for success and customer success is set up to, to service them?

What, what are some of those things that a sales rep should do at today? So one thing that's really small is go ask your CS folks for the, all the materials that they use in an onboarding call, right? And so, or that kickoff call or whatever it is, but how do they describe the post sales journey, right? Um, and make sure that you're doing it in the exact same way, right? So you're using the exact same language. So if they say things like, you know, it's going to take, you know, uh, uh, half of a resource to do the onboarding, or it's going to take four to six weeks to do it, or it's going to, you know, this is, this is what we need from you, Mr. Customer during this onboarding process. Frankly, you should just be using the exact same slides because there's nothing worse than a sales rep saying, you know, Oh, our onboarding is really easy.

You'll be live in two weeks. And then they get into that first kickoff call. And the CS person says, you know, it takes a full resource on your end and it takes four to six weeks to get you live, right? Because instant disconnect, right? Instant angry customer. Um, and, uh, and then, you know, obviously a ton of room for, for churn. So I think, um, that's one that's, uh, that's, that's really easy is just use their materials, right? Um, the other thing that I would, I would say, um, do tomorrow is just go talk to one of your CS reps and ask them, you know, when customers do churn or when they are at risk, um, you know, or, or unhappy or, you know, whatever it is, like what's, you know, what's the, what's the major cause, you know, what is, you know, what's generally, what generally has gone wrong?

What are you, what are the kind of the patterns that you see? Um, because if you, the, just awareness of what those are, um, can make such a difference in terms of the way that you're, uh, you know, that you're, that you're working with your, your rep. And then the last one I would say is make sure that, you know, you're not, when you're handing off to a CS, that's what there's, I would get, stay involved. So the ideal scenario would be you're on that kickoff call, right? And also the ideal scenario is the buyer is on that kickoff call. Cause there's a big difference between the buyer and then the user. Yes. If it goes from sales rep plus buyer to CS plus user, those are four completely different people, and like two people were involved in the sales process, two people were involved in post sales.

They may have never, ever talked. So my ideal kickoff call is sales rep plus buyer plus CS rep plus user, all four on the call doing that handoff. The buyer can say why I bought what, what I was hoping to gain from it. Right. The sales rep can, you know, put any, uh, add any color to that and everyone's aligned. So if, if you can, I'd require it personally, require that kind of kickoff call like that. Yeah. I mean, I, I think, you know, I say this all the time. I think life is about expectation setting, you know, excuse me. I mean, if you, if you think of the last time you were pissed off about anything, it's, I almost guarantee it's because your expectations were misset. And, and, and, you know, you talk to customers and you say, well, what, why do, why do customers get upset with us?

Right. It was because we misset expectations about what our stuff can do. And then all of a sudden they realized, wait a minute, whereas why do we get upset with customers? Well, because they misset our expectations about what their timeline is, what their priorities are, what their budget is, all that stuff. And without that connective tissue, it's just bound to be a disaster. And so one of my nuggets and everybody knows this one who's been following me is that summary email. There's another very small thing that you can do throughout the sales for every stage of the sales process. So an SDR, BDR makes a phone call, qualifies the account, summarizes the conversation with the key takeaways, flips that over to an AE, AE has more conversations, continues to summarize, gets confirmation from the client.

And then the CS, they just actually add up all those summary emails and say, is this, is this still all accurate? And if it is fantastic, let's move forward, right? Right. Don't want to have a conversation, you know, have the same conversation over and over and over and over again with you that makes your organization look pretty JV. So, well, and it's also frustrating, right? I mean, I always use the example of when you're calling into like, say your Verizon or whatever, and you get that frontline person who asks you 30 minutes worth of questions. And then you're like, oh, sorry, I'm going to have to elevate this to somebody who knows what they're talking about. And then that person gets on the phone and like, so how can I help you?

And you're like, what the fuck? Right, exactly. I got the same 30 minutes worth of questions. Yeah, no, I mean, we can get, companies can get in their own way from having a really bad customer experience, just based on communication alone. So, and, you know, right when the sales process is over, the customer is at its, it's at a peak in terms of their experience and their excitement, right? And the worst thing you can do is take them from that peak of like, all right, I'm excited. I just bought something. And this is going to help me to an instant low by having the CS person be like, okay, so tell me about your business. God, that's the worst thing you can do. Awesome. Well, I know we're up on here.

I know we both have a hard stop here. So, um, Emmanuel, tell, tell everybody where they can find out more information about you, more information about toast and everything like that. Sure. So, uh, find me on LinkedIn, Emmanuel Scholar at Twitter at L E L L E S K A L A, um, toasters in Boston were, but we hire all over the country. Um, 50% of our, uh, team is remote. So sales CS, um, hit me up. Awesome. Well, Emmanuel, thank you so much for this time. I really appreciate it. I think we could go, I know we focused a lot more on kind of the sales side of the house. Maybe next time we get over, and I'm going to actually look for feedback from my audience here on how many customer success people are out there.

Yeah, that'd be great. A little bit more on what does customer success do to, to be successful in sales? That sounds good. All right. Thanks. All right. Have a great day. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.