60: Social Selling with Olivia Bodnar RingDNA

But I did want to promote real, real quick before we jump into this, Olivia, but so for those of you who haven't been paying attention, my store, store.jbarrows.com, we are taking all profits and I am 2xing the profits on store sales this month and we're donating it down to a charity down on the borders that is helping families get back together. So if you were ever interested in getting a Jay Barrows or Make It Happen Monday or something like that gear, please go to store.jbarrows.com. You get something as far as cool gear and you give something to this charity to just help families. I'm not trying to be political with this, everybody. I'm just trying to do my part to help keep families together because I don't care what side of the house you're on.

That shit is wrong. So let's try to make this a little bit of a better place. All right, everybody. Welcome. This is John Barrows with Make It Happen Mondays. Hopefully you all had a fantastic weekend. I actually had a great weekend. I took some time off, a mental health break based on what all the shit that's going on out there right now. Way too much drama, way too many issues. So I had to detox a little bit. Went to a Dave Matthews concert, got all messed up and had a good time. With that as the pretext here, I'm excited to have this conversation with Olivia because it's all about social. It's all about social, but doing social in a different way. So Olivia, you want to introduce everybody to yourself and your background and where you're coming from these days?

Hi, everyone. John Barrows. Pleasure to be here. I'm in like a rebirth moment with my career in sales and everything. So it's a really awesome timing to have this conversation. I've been selling since I joked that when RuPaul was on WebEx billboards, like that's how long I've been selling SaaS. But most recently I've joined RingDNA to lead their sales team. And it was a move that I debated a lot. And so I really wanted to find like a really special place that was doing kick-ass things to make me move. And this is the place. So I'm psyched to be here. And I'm about 60 days into the role. So right, square in my ramp and all systems go. Love it. And that's actually what prompted this conversation was because when you first, so you're 60 days in, and when you first started, you put a post out there on LinkedIn to help you ramp.

Do you want to kind of explain what you did? And we'll actually tag the post in the Facebook Live thing here. But do you want to explain to people kind of what your thought process was and what your approach was? Yeah, absolutely. So there were really kind of three objectives to the reason I did it. One is, listen, we all work really hard to build awesome networks, but like it's not enough just to have it. I wanted to mobilize it, right? So I was like, okay, I have these people who I've built awesome relationships with and know a lot of important people. Like number one, make something out of that. Number two was just honestly for my own ramp. Like I truly believe the fastest way you get up and running is just to start selling.

And so I wanted to do that. I wanted to be out giving pitches and hearing objections and like going through the motions. And number three is now I'm building and running a team, right? And I have always really respected and learned the most from my VPs who sold, right? It's like, it's not enough to be in your ivory tower on high, like get in the game. And so I put a post out on LinkedIn and I said, listen, I'm in this new gig. Like number one, it's not just enough to say, hey, I have a new job. The end. It's like, great, you have a new job and what, right? So my and what was asking these people who are all in sales and no sales managers and no all the DMs that I need to make an introduction, right?

To help me set up qualified meetings and literally build a pipeline. So that's what I posted. I made an ask of my network and they came through. It was really cool to see social working in that way. And so first of all, so the goal was how many meetings in the first month or something like that? I needed to get 10 qualified meetings and then two closed ops. Awesome. And did you hit the goal? I did. Thank God. Can't put that out there without going through, right? Yeah. So, and I think that's what led to this conversation. And I've actually been hearing Gary, do you follow Gary Vaynerchuk at all? Totally, yeah. Right. So, so Gary's been talking recently a lot more about sales. Yeah. And how like, look at the end of the day, sales is the life of a lot of any organization.

And I think that's, you know, the challenge that people have with social selling, right? Everybody understands when you make a cold call. Everybody understands when you send an email to a targeted account. But then social is kind of this, eh, right? How do I use social to sell? Because the way I always position social is this. There's two sides of social selling. There's the one side, which is the listening, right? So I heard that RingDNA is about to open up a new office or whatever it is. You tweeted about it. So I'm going to use that to engage with you and say, hey, Olivia, just saw you tweeted about this. I know RingDNA is doing this. I want to talk to you about it. So that's, I think, the little bit more tangible component to it.

The other side is the brand building, which is much longer term, right? And the whole idea there is industry expert and that type of stuff. But what you did is kind of in the middle here, which is you leveraged your brand that you've built to actually drive sales using social. I want to kind of explore that a little bit more with you. Because I also kind of put the context on this of you're a VP of sales, right? How long have you been doing this in sales in general? 15 years, I think. So I'm upwards around 20, 22 years, been a VP of sales, built my network, like you said, have a lot of strong people in my network. But let's talk about that 22, 23, 24-year-old kid, right? That worked at a company for a couple of years or whatever.

Yeah. Now is transitioning. How do they leverage social to sell in a short term? Because, and one more context on this or preface to this, which is, I think it's evident, hey, I'm starting a new job, help. You know what I mean? Like, here's my ICP, any intros, please, please. But that obviously can come across as a little, you know, needy, if you will. So what do you tell that 25-year-old kid that's starting a new job, that just transitioned, might have a, you know, decent amount of connections, go about it tactfully without being super cheesy, being like, ugh. Right, right, yeah. Well, I think the framework is the same, right? Because even if you don't have 20 years worth of relationships, you still can do these little micro versions of the same thing, which is building reciprocity with these people, right?

So you talk about, like, listening and then activating, like, don't just listen and check the box to be like, oh, they tweeted about something new. Like, what does that mean? Get interested in why they even posted it. Comment on it for, like, the bigger long-term cash in the bank that you're going to deposit, withdraw later, right? So, like, each time you do that and you're interacting with someone on social, do it in a way that is adding to your bank account with that person, right? Your social exchange. And that's why people harp on, like, adding value. It's not just because that's the right thing to do, but it's because you want value out, right? So you have to get value in. The more you put in, the more you get to cash out.

And you could totally do that in little, you know, being 22 out of school, you could absolutely do that one at a time. And at the same time, build a bigger account so that a decade from now, you're just running on that machine. Right. And that's what's interesting because I think the, you know, when I talk to people about brand building is, yeah, there's the ultimate kind of industry expert thing that we're all trying to get to. Right. Right. But the journey is actually more interesting to me. Yes. And I think to most people. So, you know, for instance, when I got on Snapchat, right, I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing on Snapchat. You know, I'm showing up. I'm starting here. Yeah. Right.

Like, you know, again, being 42, I'm like, I thought Snapchat was just for sending inappropriate pictures to people on the double floor, right? So, but then Gary Vee got me on. I was like, okay. And I remember my first post and I remember being like, look, Snapchat, I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing on Snapchat, but apparently I'm supposed to be on Snapchat. So I'm going to figure it out along the way. Come join my ride. Right. And I think so many people are so much more interested in the journey and watching people's journey than they are the end result. Totally. So I think that's actually one of the areas that reps could leverage, which is, hey, I'm starting a new industry right now. Yes.

Follow along because I'm going to try to expedite my learning in this industry as much as I can by engaging with as many people and consuming as much content as I can. And when I come across something that's valuable, I'm going to share it. But along the way, you'll see my dips and falls along the way. Right. Totally. And I think that's just such an authentic way of getting people to engage with you and help you, too. Right. Yes. Yeah. Right. Like the ask doesn't have to be give me a meeting or an op. Right. The ask can be like school me. Teach me what you know. I'm new to this. I'm learning. Right. I'm the first one to be like there are really smart people out there who know way more about every topic than I do.

And people will absolutely engage you in that way. In fact, it's much more approachable. Right. And coming out hot is like, I know I know all there is to know. Let me teach you. Right. It's much more approachable for you to say, hey, I just started like selling to HR people. I've never talked to those people before. If you or anyone in your network know someone who does that job, could I learn from them? Like that's a totally legit ask that people will be happy to help with. It's funny you bring that up because the best one of my favorite sales of all time was PTC, so Parametric Technology Corporation in Massachusetts here. When I joined Basho, my boss challenged me to get in there because he couldn't get in there.

The CEO couldn't get in there, whatever. And so I made it my mission to get in there. But I was brand new training. I'd never trained before. This wasn't my, you know, I'd sold before, obviously, but I'd never done sales training. Yeah. And so I remember knowing that somebody from PTC was going to be at this event. Okay. So I went to this event. So I did my whole strategy and I went to this event and it just, you know, stars align type of thing. I sat down at lunch and the woman sitting next to me, I just strike up a conversation with her. I'm like, hey, how's it going? And she's like, oh, this, you know, I'm like, oh, and halfway through, I was like, by the way, what are you doing? She's like, oh, I'm the EVP of worldwide enablement for PTC.

I was like, holy shit. You know, and I had to kind of check myself to be like, ding, I'm going to like go to sales guy mode, right? Because I was so anxious to be like, okay, so. But I ended up being like, hey, because she was talking about international travel. And I had never traveled internationally for business. And I was going to start training internationally. And I said, hey, would you mind if, you know, I'm brand new into this field. I'm going to be traveling to all these weird places. Would you mind if I grab coffee with you one of these days and just pick your brain about the difference between U.S. training and international training. Cool. And by taking that approach, going out and grabbing coffee with her and being genuinely interested in learning.

Like that move only works if you're totally authentic and in wanting it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that's and all of a sudden, like, you know, one thing led to another and I got that deal. But it was because I didn't, you know, I leveraged, hey, I need a favor. But I'm not just asking for a favor to your point. You got to put some in to get something out. Right. You know, like brand establishment and brand building has changed a lot. Right. In recent years, when I first set out, I joke that I had like two different personalities. I had like a Sasha Fierce, who is like my sales personality. Right. And then there was like the real Olivia. Yeah. And for a long time that it was like old school sales.

That's how it worked. You had like. But over time, that has gone away. And now, like the only way you can be effective and be authentic and out there is to merge those two. Right. Like you have to be a real version of yourself and your professional self. And that's tricky. Right. You have to be even more thoughtful about how you're doing it than you used to. Right. And I think that's that blend right there. I think it's a challenge. I'm trying to figure it out. I don't know about you, but, but, you know, I, I tried for the longest time to keep my Facebook, my personal Facebook. Right. Yeah. Right. I was like, I'll keep everybody else. Like I'll be cool. Every other platform. I still want to be able to town, like spew off on something.

You know, pick a fight with somebody and be like no filter at all. Right. But then Doug, you know, Doug Landis. Yeah. Yeah. So Doug's a good friend. So we became business friends, but then became really close, just personal friends. Yes. He hit me up. This was a while ago. He, and I always said no to anybody, but then Doug hit me up on Facebook says when he connected, I was like, okay. You opened the box. Then it was out there. Oh, and then the floodgates, because he's connected with 7,000, you know, 7 million people. Oh, you're connected to Doug. I'm like, shit. Yeah. So now, it was ultimately a good thing, because it put me in check to realize I can't have two different personalities. You have to be who you are.

Now, you can be different people on different platforms slightly, but it all has to come back to your core boundaries. Right. It's like your audience. Like all of that still applies, right? Be thoughtful about who's in that room with you when it comes to like your own self and how you, because listen, they're not that different if you get to the root of it. So like the first time I was introduced to you and your training was right when I came back from maternity leave. So you want to talk about like a make it happen mindset. I was fully in it. Right. Like my time was never more valuable. And so I was just a sponge for that. But I like, that was who I was. That wasn't going to go away. Right.

So this, and the second you start to incorporate that, like I never had more urgency in my life. Right. When it came to my deals. And so you benefit from it if you can do it thoughtfully, but it's tricky. Right. Take some, take some bravery too. Well, with that, what do you recommend to the reps that report to you? Like, especially the younger ones, for instance, that kind of have lived their lives on social. Right. So I feel fortunate that I didn't grow up with Facebook. So every minute of my life is not documented. Totally. But a lot of these kids are. Yeah. And they were whoever they wanted to be in college and that type of stuff. And now they're moving into this world of business. What do you recommend to them from a social brand building standpoint when it was all personal for the entire time?

And now how do they transition to business? Do you have any kind of tips around that? I think that generation has to decide earlier than we did who they are. Right. It's going to force them to kind of put their hooks in a couple key ideas that make them themselves. Because listen, we, you know, they might jump from industry to industry. It's not like they're going to be selling the same thing their whole life, but they can decide what kind of a seller they are today. Right. And like, if you put your hooks in that a little bit, it'll be a good anchor. And then the other stuff, there's going to be other noise, right? Depending on who they're working for, depending on the industry and like the corporate culture and the vibe of wherever they're working in that time.

But you can absolutely pick your common thread now and like, and just keep that going. Right. Have you ever sat down to go through the exercise of kind of what your principles are as it relates to business and life? Like, have you documented that by any chance? I have actually. So Mark Oregon, who is the founder, CEO at Influidive, was really, really a great mentor for me in that way to try to build out like your life plan, basically, and the core tenants of each thing. So as you start doing your old brand building, and I landed on this idea of like empathetic selling, because that is my, that is the real Olivia and the selling Olivia together. And so, and the second you do that, like doing the work is hard, but the second you have it, everything is so much more clear.

Right. Like then you can, then you have your one thing and you can just write it and it's so much easier to dismiss the other bullshit. Totally. It's kind of like having that goal and then going for it. Right. And everything else. Right. Doesn't help support that, but it's like those, I wrote, I don't know how or why I did it, but early in my career, I defined my 12 guiding principles of like how business, everything. And I just wrote them down and I have them pinned up. So I keep reminding myself that, Hey, you know, it has to follow that. And obviously as a manager and an executive, being able to tell your team, Hey, by the way, this is, I don't, I say this, I don't. I don't expect you to live by my principles.

Okay. My principles are my principles. But when you get feedback from me or when something happens or whatever it is, I want you to know this is where it's coming from. Totally. So what was the exercise that like, was it a specific exercise? Because I don't know how I came up, like how that happened for me. Cause I can't think that far back. What, what would you suggest a rep does now early stages of their career? How can they help going through that process? Cause you said for you, it was a little bit of a hard kind of thing to get there, but once you got there, it was crystal clear for you. So is there any shortcuts you can help, uh, the, you know, the listeners here think about of like, how do they come up with what type of seller, what type of principles they are, that they have to help guide them through this journey?

Yeah. So I actually, I think the first step is to ask people who are close around you to define that first, right? So before you like make up in your mind and imaginary version of who you want to be, like you better gut check that and ask people who you are already, right? So I would start there, ask people you've sold to people where that went well and where that went badly, right? And ask them and you have to force people to be simple, right? Like few words, pick one thing about me. Like what's my one superpower? What's the one thing I need to work on. Right. And then, and then it'll start to emerge. It's like one of those word clouds, right? You're like, oh shit, I see the pattern here. I'm that person.

And if that's who you are authentically, like if you're asking your friends and family to to validate that, I think you'll find the Venn diagram overlap and that's your core person, right? Then you can start to be aspirational with it. Gotcha. Then you can say, here's who I want to be, right? And that, like, I think that that's how it can emerge a little bit in a way that's not needing like four years of therapy. Which is another podcast or another. Yeah, a total another podcast. But yeah, because I, I think that guiding light, you know, it's funny, you know, I always say the worst piece of advice I think we've given the younger generation is to follow your passion. I genuinely think that's a horrible piece of advice.

Right. Because if somebody told me when I was 16, 17, 18 years old, follow your passion, I'd be smoking weed and artists on the side of the road. You know what I mean? I didn't truly find out what I was truly, truly passionate about until I was in my thirties, right? So my whole thing is find your passion and then follow it. And I think your twenties are kind of that area where you start playing around with a bunch of stuff. But I think to your point, I think these kids these days, unfortunately have to expedite that a little bit sooner right now to get that leg up in business and have that direction or else they're going to be floundering for quite a while. And the opportunities are going to pass them up fast.

So yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of a lot, there's a lot more like entrepreneurial drive in that generation than there was like in my generation, which is great. But so they need to view like joining RingDNA as a bootcamp for that day when they do want to start their own gig, right? Like you don't have to sign up to be 40 years at a desk somewhere for people who make, you know, if that makes you bristle, like totally get that. But you will not get a better school than joining like a high growth startup to learn that, right? Otherwise you're going to try to figure it out and fall 20 times, like fast pace your own ability to do it. Right. So what's your opinion on the, cause you know, the, the, the question I always used to laugh about when I was high, when I was getting interviewed, I was going to be in five years.

Right. And, you know, and I always thought that was about the company and it was like, oh, I want to be a manager. And I did the pre-canned bullshit answer. But, and I, when I was in my twenties, I thought that was kind of a bullshit question, roll my eyes. But now that I'm 42, I look at it, I'm like, that's a real important question, but not about where you want to be in the company, literally in your life. Like think of a lifestyle five years out. What does that look like? Yes. And then back into it, right? As far as how much money and what kind of job and that type of thing. And therefore the job that you have now, as long as it's helping you get there, you can learn and tolerate whatever the shit is.

But I get, you must have it all the time where kids are, as you're interviewing, they're hopping because they're looking for something without a plan. How can you, how can you identify that? Like, do you, can you see that pretty clearly when a kid is just doesn't really have a vision for themselves, but is just looking for that grass is greener thing? Yes. I think what starts to come out in, and I've been doing a lot of interviewing right now, so this is like top of mind. If what we spend most of our time talking about is like the shiny new thing versus the people who want to get down to that next level, right? Who are like, why is this hard? Like, where am I going to hit my head against the wall?

Why? You know, who's your competitor? When do you lose? Like the people who want the nitty gritty versus like, oh, I saw you guys sign this new cool customer, right? Like shiny guy, shiny flashy. No, that's not going to work because you're, you're just going to be distracted by all that stuff. And you, you haven't yet thought about what it takes to get the shiny thing, right? Yep. It's hard, but listen, it's, that's just like a life lesson too, right? Like that's hard to get in someone's head in a 20 minute conversation. It totally is. I mean, if someone figures that out, send that back my way. But, but I, I mean, I think it is that one of my favorite questions always is what is your, what are you passionate about?

Right. Not because I care. I literally could care less what you're, I care how you describe what you're passionate about. Yes. Yes. You have like, you can't teach passion. You can't teach drive. Yes. You can teach skill. You can teach technique. You can teach everything like that, but you can't teach drive. Right. So how do you understand whether a kid has drive or not, or has the passion, whether or not it's for ring DNA, that's a different conversation, but how do you can, how can you tell? Cause that, I will say the millennials get a lot of shit for a lot of stuff. I think a lot of it is just, is just all back in my head has been, yeah. The work ethic piece here is the one that keeps popping to mind because, and I just say that from my own personal experience, I leave offices.

I usually do 8.30 to 4.30. Yeah. And then 4.30 to 5.00, I usually sit there and kind of check my emails before I go to the airport. And when I leave the office at five or 5.30 these days, there are very few companies where there's anybody left. And so how, I understand that people are looking for a bigger purpose and all that other stuff, but you still got to have that kid. Like, how do you, how do you uncover that in the interview? Yeah. So a couple of things. One is, and you kind of hit on this, right? Like describe for me your passion. I'll do the same thing with like the five-year question. It's like, describe for me what you picture is your life in five years. And I want all the same things that you said, like, where are you living?

What are you doing on weekends? Who are you hanging out with? What do you spend Monday to Friday doing? And now that brings out like how well thought out this is. Is it more than, you know, some other arbitrary, I want an app that's on a phone somewhere. I think you have to like push people to tell you how well thought out things are. But then I think like the other way that drive is coming out in that generation is like ingenuity, right? The people who get how awesome this time is and like grab it and run with it, though, that's the version of drive that exists today, right? They're like, oh, I DM so-and-so on Instagram and they did this for me. Like the people who just take it and run with the opportunity that is today, that I think is the version of drive in this generation, right?

Yeah, and it's funny how there's like, there's almost no hesitation anymore to reach out to people. Like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. But I was like, when there was a celebrity when I was growing up, like, who the fuck am I to talk to that person? You know what I mean? Like they were so far and I don't, I wouldn't even know how to engage. Same thing with CEOs. I'm like, whoa. Now it's almost like, yeah, whatever. Let's talk. And they're fearless too. Like, I tried a podcast. I did this. I tried the people who were like trying and not afraid to dive in. Like, I'm all about that. So with a few minutes left here, this is a whole nother podcast, but I did want to get your thoughts on this going back to like leveraging social because I'm trying to come up with an answer for this myself because I get at least once a week, a kid asked me this.

You're all, say, and I use this example when we were prepping for this, like, say I'm in BI, right? So business intelligence, I mean, I work for Tableau, I buy into this brand building stuff and I'm like, okay, you know what? I'm going to build my brand. I'm going to try to become the thought leader. I'm going to share content specific to BI. Yes. Two, three years into this, I'm kind of there, right? Like I'm known as, then all of a sudden I get a phone call from Olivia from RingDNA saying I got this insane opportunity to come over at this company. We're going to hit the unicorn status. And now it's a totally different industry. Yes. How do I make that transition from a social standpoint, from a brand building standpoint?

Is it a hard cut? Is it a, hey, everybody, what's up now? I'm doing this and I need your help. Like any thoughts on how a rep who has built their brand over here and now moves into a different industry can make that transition? Yeah. That's important because it happens all the time now, right? Like tech is moving so fast. This is how most careers go. So I think two things. One is this is where that common thread that you established back in your own like brand work comes in really handy. Because if you're, I'm an empathetic seller, but I sold to marketing and now I'm selling to sales. Like that still is going to carry with me, right? The second thing is like, pay attention to how you did get to be an expert in the BI space that you were in, right?

How did you learn? Who did you talk to? You know, did you find influencers? Was it about sitting on meetings? Like what did you do to ramp yourself there so that you have a model to do it in the next space, right? Like I think there's nothing wrong with making a clean break. People get that you move. And if suddenly on social you're, you're publishing different content, like everybody does that and they totally get it. Right. But if you've done it in a way where you understand business, you're interested in how, what you were selling in BI now relates to sales tools, right? Because they are all connected, right? So the more you know about the company, I think will fuel and make you more credible in the switch, right?

But yeah, it's tricky. Yeah. I mean, but I, but to your point, it happens all the time. My fear is like the two sides of it. One is a rep who knows they're not going to be in BI forever. So why bother building my brand in this? Yeah. You should, because you need to get building anyways, might as well latch onto something. But I think your, your concept here of what's that core driving principle of yours. Right. And that's why I think kind of the ultimate takeaway from our discussion for the audience here is, I think it was really important in your early twenties, in your early career to identify what your core values are as it relates to how you personally are going to go to market. Totally.

Totally. Because once you have that foundation, then it almost doesn't matter what you sell. Like I'll, I'll give you a last example here for me. When I got, when I, my IT services company got bought by Staples, I then got, I got fired because I was a pain in the ass and I don't work in corporate. So, so, and I was looking to say like, oh crap, now what do I do? Right. Yeah. And am I an IT sales guy? I'm like, ew, I don't even like, you know what I mean? Like I can't stand them, but my wife is the one who helped me figure this out. And she said, look, why were you successful at every role that you've been in? Right. DeWalt power tools. Well, I love DeWalt power tools. You know, they're bad-ass copiers.

Like I didn't love copiers, but I knew Xerox at the time was the best in the industry. Yes. Why? And so, so for me, it, it, it ended up being crystal clear. Once it, once it clicked was, it didn't matter what I sold. It mattered what I, if I believed in what I sold. Yes. Right. And that opened up everything. Right. So I think that those core, those core pieces there are critical to help you not flop around all over the place and just skipping jobs and looking for different things. So. Yes. Awesome. Well, Olivia, I think we could have this conversation for another hour. That's true. For the rest of the day. But why don't you tell everybody how they can get in touch with you and if there's anything that you're looking for, you know, you use this, the audience here is pretty open to helping out.

So is there anything that anybody can help you out with? Yeah, absolutely. So I am growing and building my own little team of kick-ass reps here at RingDNA. So if anyone wants to like get on this crazy LA B2B tech train that is leaving the station quickly, I got sun, I got sunshine and celebrities, right? And awesome tech. So, but I'm just at Olivia at ringdna.com and it's been awesome. I got to go get my make it happen swag now. So for everybody out there, please go check it out. And especially LA, we were talking before here. LA is becoming a hot market for tech, even though it hasn't been. Weather down there is beautiful. It got all sorts of cool shit. So I highly recommend reaching out to Olivia.

Super fun environment that she's built there over there too. For everybody else listening, thank you all so much. Really appreciate the support here. Again, go to store.jbarrows.com and do some good for people out there and just try to make somebody smile today. There's too much negative shit going on in this world. Just try to be a good person and don't be a douche. All right. So Olivia, thank you again so much. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye, everyone. Bye.