80: Jon Ferrara Founder Nimble CRM

good afternoon everybody this is john barrels with make it happen monday hopefully you all had a fantastic weekend i most certainly did because my red sox just won the world series much to my guests uh dismay here um but i'm actually looking forward to this conversation regardless of the competition between the dodgers and the red sox so john how's it going today man how you been it's going amazing i'm super excited to be here with you today and by the way congrats to your red sox they they're they had an amazing year and they they closed it out well uh but but john i'm here excited to be with you because i think we're here to help other people grow that's our purpose on the planet and you and i are going to have a conversation about how the listeners can become better smarter faster whatever their dreams are and most of them are in and around the sales process and we're going to teach and preach and live and learn for the next 30 minutes together so i'm excited yeah i'm looking forward to this one you know i think we did a little prep call for this talk about uh you know very specific things i kind of had a mental mindset of very let's talk about these but then it evolved uh to to a lot of career advice because as we talked you know this audience is very hungry for sales tips and ideas but also career like where where am i going in my career and i get a lot of questions from reps you know after i do my trainings to say hey john you know i love what you said there could you help me understand like here's my situation how how can i get better or how you know what what what should i be looking at and i think that's where a lot of this conversation uh is going to go because you know you're a pretty interesting just like the rest of us entree into sales and sales is you know a very uneducated profession i don't say the people in it are uneducated i just think because there's such a lack of education formal education for sales in the universities this is the default profession and so do you want to walk everybody through kind of your your uh journey into sales because i think that's going to lead to a lot of other interesting things that uh that we can chime into and hopefully get the some value to the audience for you bet so so i got involved in sales accidentally if you will uh and i actually resisted being in sales my dad was the number one lincoln mercury guy in the country back in the 50s and 60s he had the first super dealership in california and i grew up on a car lot my dad was a car salesman and that's the last thing in the world i ever wanted to be was in car sales i grew up watching the uh the gemini mercury uh paulo space programs i wanted to be an astronaut my uncle helped invent radar and microwave at mit in the 40s and i wanted to be an entrepreneur like him in technology so when i graduated uh high school i bought a computer in 1978 it was an apple 2e cost me 1600 i'm sorry 3600 which back in the day is like almost 20 grand today i don't know that's uh a lot of dollars and and i worked my way uh through getting a computer science degree by doing a variety of jobs and one of the jobs that i did happened to be working in a computer store and i actually started to sell back then computers were 55 margin there were no computers on desktops in southern california corporations i sold the first 300 000 computers to southern california corporations making 70 grand a year working part-time living at home going to college and that was a lot of money in 1981 but i didn't want to be in sales so when i graduated with my degree i got a job in an aerospace company hugh space and communications and after two years in aerospace they said i'm not an aerospace guy and i got a job at a startup in westboro you know westboro is i know yeah no well yeah yeah westboro is kind of west of you you just don't want to go too far to wusta no no once you cross that line like kind of anything outside of 495 here in boston is is pretty much might as well be a whole another country no i'm just kidding i i love rural massachusetts i think massachusetts one of the best states in the union but i got a job at a startup and they basically put me in sales now in 1970 i'm sorry 1987 88 there was no outlook there was no sales force there was no crm there was no sales mark automation programs i looked for tools that enabled me to build relationships manage my pipeline do nurture marketing and close deals i couldn't find it they gave me leads which were basically piece of paper with phone numbers of it people at large corporations and i had to basically pick up the phone cold call them make notes on whatever piece of paper that i can find this is my crm and and i said there's got to be a better way i found a plug and do symphony called act which manages contacts and tasks for individual i found uh snap which was a pipeline management tool i found sailmaker which was a a calling program but what i wanted to do is blend contacts email calendar and sales on market automation i couldn't find it so at uh 29 years old i was too young and dumb to know any better i quit my job and i started a company called goldmine to solve that problem and i did it because of one thing i learned in aerospace so i used to walk around because i i had an admin job i was basically managing 15 000 computers at this plant site and i met this old guy and all he used to say to me was shoulda coulda woulda shoulda woulda and i said to myself shoulda coulda woulda what he says i could have built trw or litten or rock and die and all these people used to work here and they all left and started these companies and i said to myself i'm 28 years old i could get a job anywhere now is the time to take that chance i'm single i don't own a home and if you're listening to this today you got to take chances in life and ultimately it's those series of jobs that lead you up to those moments that are going to be the magic mix that give you the tools to do what you do i could not have started goldmine without have having worked in a computer store without having where i learned about how people sold technology to corporations to work at huge where i learned how they adopted technology and then worked at band and to learn how they made technology and sold it uh through the channel all of these things gave me the capability to to when the universe knocked on my door i not only opened the door and walked through it but i was prepared love it and i i mean i think that's a i think that's where a lot of people are stuck right you know i think uh gary vaynerchuk was the one who said like he spent a whole bunch of time in nursing homes and you know asked all these people who are kind of at the end of their life like what tell me about what you what you regret and it was almost there was never nobody ever regretted doing something they always regretted not doing something right it was like oh i wish i didn't do that thing that i that i thought i was wanted to do and i failed at it it was almost always i i wish i did that thing that i didn't do and i think that's what i live by which is you know regrets i don't want to actually be looking back and saying oh man i wish i had taken that chance or but the question here is risk risk aversion right because i think everybody has a different tolerance uh threshold for risk i always say to people i'm not like the ultimate risk taker in the sense that if you wanted me to give up everything that i'm doing right now live on my parents in my parents basement and eat ramen noodles for the next year and a half to try to figure out an idea that's not me right i need some sort of stability but i'm a calculated risk taker in the sense that i the thing that i think i've been blessed with the most is is the ability to kind of size up an opportunity and with a very minimal amount of data i can look at it and say yep that's a good idea and i should do that or no it's probably not a good idea i should avoid it so but and then there's other people from a risk standpoint that need all the pieces in place before they would even make a jump right they need that extra they need that job already lined up for them before they leave their first one because that even that gap even though they have confidence in themselves so let me ask you john how do you evaluate risk like how do you look at it and for you to take a quote-unquote risk what would what would the pieces need to be in play for you to make that jump well john i think that's one of the things i've been gifted at is being able to read things to sense things to see things and ultimately it's a synthesis of an infinite number of inputs that enable you to then read and analyze and make a decision but rarely does it come down to um analyzing in a piece of paper like that i basically trust my gut take the inputs that i have and i make a decision and it's really that's how we did goldmine was back in the day there was email there was contacts there was calendar and there was uh spreadsheets for pipeline but there wasn't anything that brought all that together and because i struggled with that i had a personal problem with managing my sales process i then was able to read what the need was see that there was no solution and then say yeah i could build this we can do this but the reality is i had no effing idea what i was getting myself into right because okay so you could take dbase and go write a program that does all this stuff that goldmine did which goldmine was outlook and salesforce combined before either existed but how do you sell that right and so uh i was living in an apartment with my co-founder we had maybe three thousand dollars total in the bank and we had to go sell enough software to survive and so there's only so many hours a day that you could actually sell and the best way to sell is get other people to sell for you and i was able to convince people that had a trusted relationship with my prospect the smb customers those were the novell resellers the technology reseller for them to use goldmine and then they started to recommend it and resell it because people sell what they know and they know what they use and i wouldn't have ever been in that position to a have built the program if i didn't sense the need and then made the decision to take the risk but more importantly it's the sum of my jobs that taught me that it's easier to get somebody to sell it for you than for you to sell it yourself especially if you want to scale and that's how we got to our first hundred thousand dollars a year in revenue is by cold calling 500 of the top novell resellers in the country and getting them to use it and therefore resell it to their base of thousands of customers and we never took a dime adventure and eventually grew it to about a hundred million dollars in revenue uh when we sold it when i retired when i was 40 but one of the key aspects of the journey that i think is important for your listeners is we started with novell resellers because there was no microsoft network operating system back in the day novell was it microsoft doesn't innovate they iterate they wait for somebody else to build the market then they come in with something good enough they build nt server sql server and exchange server and we switched to requiring that for goldmine enterprise and then rode the microsoft partners and their customer base to that hundred million dollars in revenue if we didn't see the changes happening switching from dos to windows switching from desktop to mobile switching from local databases client server switching from novell to microsoft we wouldn't have ever got there and ultimately it's like it's like surfing you got to get a feel of the wave and you just sort of like go with it and sometimes you can't be taught those things you got to just sort of trust your gut yeah i mean i think the gut definitely has a lot to it you know the goal is to try to marry up that that science and the art right the art is the gut and your feel and some people have a much better gut than others and others you know need a little bit more of the analytics but without the combination you end up getting stuck with no decisions at all or you overanalyze decisions and you don't make them and i think that's i'd rather make a decision and fail on it yeah than not make a decision because i overthought it and you're gonna learn you're gonna learn more john right i mean i i look at edison he failed 10 000 times and invented the light bulb right and i think that's you know one of my things like so when i was fired from so i worked at thrive networks my first startup was outsourced it services and we sold it to staples and um you know i have these 12 personal guidelines to success and and one of them used to be always make sure you have a plan b right but because that was that was added after i got fired from staples because i woke up and i didn't have a job and i had never even thought about a plan b so i was kind of in a panic mode but i look back on it i think that was you know always have a plan b is actually not that great because in my opinion your plan b takes away from your plan a yeah so i changed it to and this is how i recommend everybody take a look at risks these days which is ask yourself this ask yourself this question every time you're about to make a decision and it can be as micro as you know going over your prospect's head right because you're not at power and how do you get to their boss right or as macro as what am i going to do in my career and what direction do i want to take and the question is is what's the worst case scenario like what's the absolute worst thing that can happen if you do that and if that happens are you okay with it and if you're okay with it go all in yeah not with the worst case scenario figure something else out and that was the exact thing that i did when i said i could always get a job right i mean i could always go get hired as a sales rep for another technology company there's an infinite amount of them right but there isn't a window when a transition is happening and the transition was um desktop to note to notebooks and client server computing dos to windows and microsoft's emergence as a real player with nt server sql server and exchange server and you know what's interesting john is that exact same thing is happening now that's how i basically got in to building a new relationship platform that's social and cloud-based is i started to use so i sold goldmine when i was 29 years old i spent 10 years raising three kids you have any kids i do i have a daughter she's eight okay so you know how amazing that journey is and you know how precious those moments are and you because you travel right you have clients all over the world you're not always there for those moments and to be able to be there for moments i think is is what life's all about we're here to make moments and memories not money because the money happens if you do life right and so so i spent 10 years raising a few kids and as my kids got into school i had time i started to use social media and i started to use it in 2006 7 8 9 i saw i was going to change the way we work play buy and sell and i started to look for a relationship manager that enabled me to integrate my contacts to social i couldn't find it then i started looking at crm systems and saw that they weren't about relationships they're about reporting and so crm stands for customer relationship management i think it stands for customer reporting management because it's not really about building relationships about tracking activities against deals in order to um for management to keep the finger on the pulse of pipeline and ultimately it's relationships that drive business and business has always been social people buy from people they like knowing trust so how do you earn intimacy and trust in the old days i said go look at somebody's walls look at the books they read the degree of the school they went to the knickknacks they collect you do that in order to figure out what you have in common to share that to build intimacy and trust today you do that via social but back in 2009 people didn't know that social applied to business they thought facebook was a place to hook up with a high school sweetheart and linkedin was a place to get a job and i saw the future and so i decided i'm going to build a new relationship platform it's going to be the first serum that works for you by building itself from the data you already have in your business which is email calendar contact social and and all your business apps like quickbooks and mailchimp and then works with you everywhere you work because i think the biggest cause of failure serum is lack of use because you work for it and you have to go to it to use it and then bad data because even if you force sales people to use it if they type data in the computer it's just going to become stagnant over time and so that's why i got back in the business and what's interesting about all that is that we started with gmail g suite with google because they were the only cloud email contact calendar thing and that existed microsoft came out of the office like four or five years later and when i saw that i saw history repeating itself what that means is microsoft doesn't iterate they innovate i'm sorry they don't innovate they iterate they wait for some house to build the market and then when it's big enough they use their muscle which is hundreds of thousands of resellers and millions of users and they entered the market with office four years ago we started integrating and partnering with them last year they signed a reseller agreement with nimble they're bundling nimble with office 365 worldwide they're walking us into their distributors we've signed up 25 of the top 50 company with access now to 300 000 resellers globally and we've become the simple center for office and the gateway to dynamics and the crown jewels azure and i don't think i would have been able to do that if i didn't understand the past to be able to prepare for the present and win the future i like it so you talked about um something a little bit earlier about the sum of all your experiences so when the when the universe kind of shines on you right one of the pieces that i i say to reps that you know in my career one of the things i wish i did a little bit better job of if you will was paying attention in the sense that i just i just usually had my head down and i was cranking right that was me i was just all right let me get this job done let me go hit my numbers that type of stuff and anytime something happened within a business like from a business standpoint yeah whatever okay well you know how does that impact me and and now i'm gone but looking back on it i really wish i had a different lens so i could look at you know i'll give an example of like when when the the vp or or whoever rolls out a new comp plan how do they roll it out like and especially if it's a new comp plan that nobody likes right like why did they roll it out who did they you know what was their approach to it you know and how could they have maybe done it differently to get more buy-in right because the experience if you look at it from an outsider's perspective even though you're on the inside you can then say okay this sucks my new commission plan sucks and that's me me me but if i learn about how they rolled that out how that made the other people feel and what that did to the environment as soon as that happens well then when i become a leader i know exactly what to do and what not to do in that area so any advice for for reps on on paying attention and what they should be paying attention to as they build their careers because i do you know i look at your point you know there's a gut factor here but i will tell you obviously my gut has gotten better and better and better over the years purely based on experience i mean at 42 years old right now i always look at 40 as a really interesting age because in your 20s you're always you for the most part in general you're looking up for permission right you don't know what you don't know so you're kind of looking at the 30 somethings 40 somethings saying okay is this right should i be doing this right in the in your 30s you kind of you yes you you start to figure out what you're good at but you're still kind of sitting there saying i still kind of feel like a kid a little bit you know i still remember my 20s so i feel like i'm looking up a little bit but then once you're 40 i don't know if this happened to you but the conversations that i was having with people like i would just have a conversation just you know about some topic because of whatever and all of a sudden they would be like wow holy shit that's really smart or oh really that's a good idea and it started to dawn on me that just out of the 22 years of experience that you know that that has put me in a much better position now to make better decisions and so do you you know how do you recommend reps looking at their careers if you will as that sum of all parts so that they can capitalize on it you know do you have any advice or thoughts around that well i think i think one of the things you have to recognize is each one of the pat jobs you do you're gonna learn something even the shittiest place you work you're gonna learn more than the places that you just excel at right something that you try to do and you either fail at or the people that you're working with or for fail you in enabling you to truly grow and succeed these are the places you're going to learn the most and you know when i was working that job at at banyan my uh my sales manager used to show me these checks that he'd make on commission like 350 000 you'd put it in my face and go ah you know and i was the se i was the systems engineer and i don't know if you know what a system is engineering yeah i don't know well yeah but they make the effing sales happen and they keep them stuck they keep them happening right because we're the one who actually has to go in after the sales rep kind of promises the world and actually set up the demo and integrate it to all the stuff and go find the third-party tools to glue it together and then keep it stuck right and i said to myself it's not just sales people that sell i learned from that it's everybody in the team is participating in that journey both pre and post sale and it's not just prospects and customers that you need to be connecting with in order to get your sales done because ultimately your prospects and customers have an influencer of some type and might be an advisor or consultant or whoever and so i i i learned different things at different jobs and especially in hiring and growing people because i think if you want to scale a company you've got to get really good at picking uh talent picking people and then growing those people and this is one of the secrets that i learned back in the day in regards to growing people and hiring number one is i love the midwest i love people from the midwest they're they're just great right they're solid you know you could talk about boston and new york and la and san francisco and and they're all happening they're all great but you know people in the midwest this is like the heart of our country and i especially like liberal arts majors because you could teach somebody business or technology but you can't teach them to reason to read write and do research and ultimately life's really about listening and communicating effectively at scale and so i'd hire people that that were liberal arts majors that were working in some type of customer journey even hairdressers and i would train them on business and technology you could hire a liberal arts major or somebody from a best buy for a nominal amount compared to somebody in business and technology degree and then when you teach them and grow them and turn them into making a hundred two hundred thousand dollars a year you built a relationship for life you built a culture that can eat anything and these are some of the sum of things that i that i really learned but ultimately the key thing that i've learned that i think is most important my northern light is this when i was 41 years old a year after i sold gold mine for more money i'd ever imagined in my life i had a head tumor and almost died rock on wood that was what 17 years ago um and through the journey of getting healed i also went on spiritual growth part and i came to a simple conclusion about life we're on this planet to grow our souls by helping other people grow others that's it we're here to help other people grow the more people you could outgrow the more you'll grow that's what zig ziglar said and ultimately i believe services the new sales any sales person listening to this today who wants to be successful in the future should enter into any relationship they go into with the intent to learn enough to be able to add some value to that other person even it means recommending somebody else's product at that moment at that time because ultimately the more people you have grow the more you will grow and so that's my simple philosophy and actually it's one of the reasons why i got back into business to build uh nimble because when i get stopped on the street and people say gold mine changed my life i love that we're here to change people's lives and and ultimately my goal is to get 50 million people around the world achieving their passion plan and purpose in life building their dreams with with nimble because here's the deal your network is your net worth your personal brand plus your professional network will help you achieve your dreams in life which should be serving others and most people don't do a good job with their network they put their network here right this is where your contacts are and you basically work at some business whether you're working in a crm imagine if you had your own personal crm that you could basically build your contacts from all the disparate places and then use it inside the company crm or outside the prospect and ultimately that's what nimble has evolved into is if you have a crm today like salesforce or dynamics or whatever you could use nimble as your personal crm and then use it to bring your network to work with you because i think we're in that time where people bring their own tools they need to bring their brain and network to work with them too sure i love it i think you know paying attention again and you know i think that the two themes right are figuring out ways to pick your head up a little bit and look for opportunities from a bigger picture standpoint you know i tell reps all the time who are struggling in their jobs or or looking for the next job i'll ask them and i've said this before on the podcast but i'll just reinforce it here is you know i'll ask them hey what's your five-year plan from a lifestyle standpoint like where do you know forget about the job and those type of things you don't want to be a manager here no literally in your life look out five years i think five years is a good benchmark right because who knows what's going to happen after that uh and where do you want to be lifestyle wise is it what kind of house car family those type of things do you want to be do you want and then from there you can back into okay you know now how much money do i need to be able to make to live that lifestyle and therefore what kind of job do i need to have to be able to make that money to live that lifestyle and then you go searching for that and you build your model out as far as what do i need to do now to get to that next step that's going to move me toward closer to my goals and my plans because i always say if you if you do not have goals in your life if you do not have aspirations but concrete things you know what i mean not just like hey i want to be the greatest but no by this time i want to be doing this if you don't have that then you're letting somebody else dictate the path and you're just along for the ride yeah whereas if you set goals you can at least keep going you know you can at least have something to track yourself on am i making progress because i think that's where we go you know that circles back around the beginning of this conversation which is i think a lot of people just feel stuck right they're like stuck you're like i know i don't want to do this but i you know i'm afraid i'm a high risk top you know low risk tolerance so i'm about to go i don't want to take that next risk but i'm not happy right now and and that's the big problem john is i think most people are floating through life yeah totally and and that's why if you pay attention you can be so successful because it's really that easy and and and i read this book called think and grow rich you want you want to know you want to know about me you know go look at my walls right you go look at the different books and things that i've read and this book right here yep got the same one change my life baby right there all goal setting right amen that's it right and so i i have the three p's it's called passion plan and purpose you got to figure out what is your passion don't just start with oh my passion is like burning baby burn it but no really like what is your passion and then build a plan to achieve it and then put that plan on your mirror on your refrigerator every day you get up say what am i doing to get there and make that your purpose every day and if you do that you're going to get someplace because most people in this world are knuckle draggers they're just floating through life they don't have a passion they haven't built a plan and they don't make it their purpose and if you do that you honestly could do anything that you want in this world but but here's the deal i've had the big house i've had the big car it that ain't life right so so mike the milkman a buddy of mine uh mitch jackson you should bring mitch jackson on your on your podcast he's a he's an attorney but he's also just a really great uh social philosopher dude mitch jackson anyways his father-in-law was mike the milkman he was a milkman and he and he basically had these like five laws of a foundation like a pyramid of life and you know where it starts your health because if you don't have that right you're done and then after your health is your family right because ultimately that's all you leave this planet with is the vibration the moments of people that are precious to you they're not going to put on my grave built gold mine made millions they're going to say beloved father husband brother friend right and then beyond that it's it's it's your work right because you know what is that's that's such a big part of our lives and and then in conjunction with that your family and friends your community i'd actually say the community your friends come before work because ultimately the work just helps all the rest of that stuff happen sure and and i think that most people don't have their priorities really correctly aligned and and it really is foundationally built by you building a plan and you can't build a plan unless you know where you want to go and um yeah and so i i think that i think that having a a purpose to your life is so critical and yours is clearly growing people right you do that at scale every day and uh and that's why i think we read out of the same hymn book because that's what i do i i think we're here to help other people grow yeah and i think if you're not if you're not helping other people it's a lonely life uh it's just in general you know there's i get a lot more gratitude to your point hey goldmine changes your life you know when i get that rep who took this training two or three years ago and then comes up to me and says hey john i know you probably don't remember me but you know that training changed my perspective it got me on a different track and now i'm a bp and now i'm a manager whatever it is and i really attribute a lot to what i've learned in your session that makes all the travel all the airports sleeping in you know shitty ass hotels and you know driving around all over the place that's what makes it worth it um and if that doesn't drive you um i don't know what you're doing right i mean those those are the type of things that said and i think it comes in a translation with a kid right because your your view on life changes drastically when you have children because it's an immediate realization it's no longer about you it's a hundred percent about somebody else and so it almost it's a forcing function for you to say to change your lens and i think that's where a lot of people do change their lens to say you know it was all about me for the first 30 years of my life and then i had a kid and i realized it wasn't so i'm gonna have to shift things up and my goals change a little bit at that point right so yeah yeah and and ultimately we're talking to sales people today right yep i think today sales is a four-letter word that uh for many people they look down on the profession and as a professional salesperson that's been doing this job for a long long time i think it is an amazing service you're helping people achieve their things right and so you're actually not a bag them and tag them door-to-door fuller brush salesperson you're somebody who's actually helping people fulfill their dreams and so i think it's an amazing profession and done right can bring you infinite riches and uh but ultimately i think you need techniques and tools to do it properly right and uh and i think if you think about what crm is it's really a database for managing process and prospects and um and i think that most of the deals you put in a pipeline start with a relationship it starts with you building trust and intimacy getting somebody opened up to you about their business issues which is a professional you can then solve once you've done that then you put it in the pipeline right and so i think that if you're listening to this today that sales is about relationships that we're going through a renaissance in relationships where it's getting more important for you to be able to build your brand your network and relationships at scale in order to do that today i just think it takes too many tools including raintree discover org linkedin sales navigator inside view outreach sales loft tout app yes where you know you name it all these different tools you got to buy in addition to your crm and i think it's too many tools it's too much complexity and that for the 99 of us that we need something more say nimble what i'd love to do is i'd love to offer anyone listening this today a um a coupon where they can get nimble for 40 percent off because i think that you need your own personal crm that you can bring around with you and use it and whatever tool you have to use that at work because every day the people listen to this john are meeting amazing people and they just let them slip through their fingers instead of putting them in their own personal golden rolodex and building their brand in their network because you're not going to work wherever you work in one to five years the average is three and so they're going to hire you tomorrow on your brand in your network and you need to be working on that it takes work in order to make that happen and i'm going to show you a little history here this is a um uh a card that used to go inside of a pc this is called or it's a role it's a rex it's a rolodex pc mcaa card and it basically uh used to go inside of a computer for synchronization and so i've actually got some historical things on my uh on my desk here uh this is the one of the original um contact managers called a wizard sharp and and basically that's how people used to manage their contacts this this is before the uh the smartphone and uh you know today we're lucky to have tools like this to manage them but i think that today we're we're still lacking the right tools and the right techniques and that's why we have people like you to uh to teach and preach to have grow people cool man well i appreciate it we're going to wrap this up um how can people find more about nimble and what's that code that uh you were talking about as far as an offer is concerned and those so just go to nimble.com and you know learn more about nimble if you want to learn about me google me john j-o-n ferrara f-e-r-r-a you'll find my identity across the first page and today you should google yourself if you don't land with eight uh links on that first page you're doing something wrong today because your customers your prospects and their influencers are going to google you and when when you do google me reach out to me connect with me tell me about who you are and how i might be able to help you grow and if you do sign up for nimble at nimble.com the code is j-o-n 40 that's 40 off your first three months awesome john well i really appreciate it and uh keep up the great work with that uh you know the the giver's game mentality right keeping always trying to make a difference in somebody's life right now and that's what i asked a lot of my every time i finish up the podcast is just go make somebody smile you know there's too much negativity out there in the world right now you know go go do something for somebody that that without without any expectation of them returning the favor all right and that means if you're at a grocery store checking out don't do this right put your shit down and talk to the person in front of you the you should give a gift to anybody you meet and the best gift to give them that's free to you is your is your attention and a smile there you go all right joe thanks so much for coming on board and everybody make it a great week all right thank you all very much make it happen later adios you you you you