Dale Dupree: Reject the ‘Transactional Mindset of Sales’

Hey everyone, welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests who I truly respect and who I think make a positive impact on the world around us. And boy, do I got a special one for you today. Good friend of mine, Dale Dupree. He runs the Sales Rebellion podcast. He does sales training, consulting, works with organizations and individuals. And he is absolutely one of the more interesting guests I've had from a perspective standpoint. His story and where he comes from, we started with that. We both rooted in copier sales. So I start by talking to him about what that taught him about sales, business, and life because his dad's the one who started the company and how he learned some really, really important values and everything from his dad.

But then we dive into something I thought was really interesting, a post that he had where he said, do you want a better life or sales career than build an amazing life you crave to be a part of? And we dive into that about goal setting and how sometimes we limit ourselves with smart goals and how we should probably start setting some more dumb goals instead. And also the idea of stop doing what you're supposed to do and breaking the rules, but understanding what those rules are before you can break them. We get into stuff like his depression and how he gets through that and how he has different perspective now than he ever did before and mental health and awareness and how giving back and gratitude plays such an important part of his success.

And last but not least, we talk about how skipping a few steps and how many steps can you actually skip on your way to success and whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. So there's a lot to unpack with this one. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I do. Let's make it happen. What's happening, make it happen, family? Big shout out to our partners today, Gong, Proposify, Vidyard, and Chili Piper. Gong's data is more than valuable. It's cornerstone in any organization looking to collect the data that's going to tell them where they can improve and where they need to spend their time making changes. Proposify is one of my favorite teams of all time. What they do is they make the proposal and contract processes easy for the sender and the recipient.

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See you soon, everybody. Dale Dupree, my copier brother from another mother. How are you, my friend? I'm doing fantastic, Brian. So somebody told me one time, somebody in the copier industry, they said, once you get in, toner gets directly into your veins and it never comes out, baby. Never comes out, man. And as much as I disregarded my copier background, I just did it because a friend of mine, I didn't want to do the DeWalt stuff anymore. And I was like, all right, copiers, at least this is something I could figure out. And I had a friend who got me into it. And I remember I was put in territory before I was going through training. So I had to kind of do a dual thing. So I disregarded copier training.

I was like, whatever, I got to go out there and sell. But man, those eight week sales training program from Xerox, like after I got out of that, the feedback of people like, wait a minute, you work for Xerox? Like, and it was something that I didn't even have to explain anymore. People started coming to me looking for opportunities. So I'd love to see like, I do want to go back and talk about your overall career and how you get into where you are right now. But talk to me about like copier sales. What was kind of your biggest takeaway and learning lesson from selling copiers, man? Well, dude, yeah, that like, give me like two hours and I can break that down. But let me bite sides real quick.

I think the things that I learned was that here you like the challenge of copiers it for the most part is that it's very transactional, especially like in our generation where we how we sold it. So if you think back to when like copiers first were presented to the marketplace, they were only bought by like mortgage brokers, attorneys, print shops, people that like were very wealthy in regards to like in respect to their revenue that was coming into their businesses, because a copier was like 50 grand. That's what it cost. And there was only two types, right? There was color and there's black and white and the speed was the same. And, you know, and before color, there was only black and white, you know, maybe one or two machines in total at that point.

Right. So so I think the thing that I learned is that as the the industry evolved, what it taught me was that people people take things like a copy machine and they want it to be they want it to be mainstream. Right. So it went from this very exclusive things like we need more people to buy this so we can make more money. Right. Driven by this identity, like more revenue. And how do we get this out to the market further? And what it did do itself is it literally killed itself in the process because it race and now it races to the bottom almost on a daily basis. But when we were in the in the game, right, if you can think back to people saying like, well, your competition is coming in at a penny a page.

Right. And now like competition comes in at like half a penny a page. And and again, it's just nickeling and diming. So what it taught me was the value of people a the value of trust and credibility that develops a relationship, not necessarily one where like the person on the other side of the of the transaction has fallen in love with you and like eats pizza with you every Friday night. But they have this very unique trust and credibility with you that builds on something almost greater than that type of friendship because you are literally changing the way that their internal office operates if you're bought into that idea, if you're bought into that identity. So it helped me to really push past the the concept of just the transactional mindset of sales and to and to say like, oh, here's an industry that is literally built that in from being an exclusive product to being something that tried to be inclusive and just literally race to the bottom of the process and change the entire way that people even made money as salespeople inside of the copier industry.

And so I was able to kind of see like, OK, well, if that's the way that business evolves, I got to be careful with what I with what I decided to develop as well, too, like take sales train, for example. I can't come into this industry in this marketplace and be like, hey, I'm going to be the cheapest guy out there or I'm going to make all these super affordable products, right? Because that cheapens my offering as well, too. Instead, I'm going to say, what do people need? What can I fix for them? And how can I develop relationships where they trust the product and what it's doing for them? And so I think copier is like what it really gave me, bro, like in a nutshell, is it is it helped me to transcend the status quo and the typical the typical salesperson and what it is that their mindset is and how they look at life even.

It's you know, it's funny. You had shared something recently on LinkedIn about this story, how you tried to get into this warehouse that, you know, your company had never sold anything for 12 years and how you approached it. And it mirrored it was almost the same exact story that I have when I got into copier sales and I have the exact same experience because I actually was selling. So I got put in territory. It had five reps in three years. It was a government. It was in state and local government. Right. Which is even worse. And so now while all my buddies on my squad were flipping copiers, private sector, like it, you know, and hitting the ground running because renewals were coming up, whatever, I would go into the, you know, secretary of state treasury and all these other stuff.

And I would be like, all right, cool. I'm about to do the same thing. And they would look at me like, please kid, get out of here. And I'm like, why? And they're like, you know, we'll have another one of you in six months. You know, you're all the same, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, damn, like they wouldn't even let me in the room. They let me in the office type of thing. So I did pretty much the exact same. I was forced into, you know, solution selling. I was forced into relationship selling because I didn't have a choice. And I remember my boss was almost going to fire me because I like six months in, I hadn't sold shit. Right. But I had, I realized that it was about shaking hands and kissing babies.

So like I went all the way to like, it was one Ashburton place in Boston, Massachusetts. I would drive there. I would, I would start at the top and I would just shake hands and kiss babies with as many people as I possibly could not selling them shit, but looking for those nuanced things about how I can add value and how I can build those relationships and figuring out click-through rates and their office workspace and all this other stuff. And about nine months in, I mean, I probably would have gotten fired that week, but nine months in, I remember walking into like three or four of my bigger clients with these huge binders of their click-throughs and their walk-throughs and how much money we could save them and, you know, how much more efficient we, and because I had developed the relationship with them, they were like done cash.

And then it was just cash. And I remember dropping like three huge contracts on my boss's desk and be like, see, you know, back off motherfucker. So, but look, let's, let's back up a little bit. Cause I love your story, man. We, we connected at the, um, at the content house when we did a little bit, uh, we, we had our little, uh, after event there and I hadn't seen you in a while. And, you know, you just come, come through a pretty interesting journey of selling the house, you know, moving to Tennessee and, and I want to, if you don't mind, kind of take a little bit of a right hand, uh, turn here as far as the mentality, cause you talk a lot about mental health, about family, about all the things that, that people don't think are necessarily associated with sales and they absolutely are.

So could you talk us through a little bit of your journey here? Um, and, and, cause I, I just think it's fascinating and it's a similar perspective, not similar a journey, but similar perspective that I've come to recently. So talk us through that a little bit, man. Yeah, no doubt. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it. And I would, I'd start, like, I'll go to the, to the origins of the story that we talked about by, by helping people to understand that it begins with intentional action by a man that raised me, Curtis Dupree and the choices that he made originally in his own life in order to play the long game with his own family and the legacy that he was leaving. So my dad, he, he had his struggles, man.

He was, he was the, the guy that basically was going to be, you know, in the NFL and playing for the best colleges, you know, out there. And, you know, to get to that place, I think he had Alabama, LSU, UF, Florida state, you know, the best of the best were all looking at him to, to recruit him. And then he has a surgery that, uh, infamously known at this point to people that felt victim to this doctor, where we're supposed to like make him run faster, but it was a bot surgery and it was a scam, you know, just like a Nigerian prince basically on the internet in the nineties. Like, Hey, give me this money. I'm going to make you run faster. And, you know, unfortunately they got duped. And, and as soon as those universities learned about that, bro, they took, I mean, he lost every scholarship except for one.

Right. And it was Carson Newman university. So he goes to this, the school that like would have been like last on the list and all of our choices, you know what I mean? But my dad also, like, I think the big learning lesson that I get even from that is not so much like the failure involved in that as much as like the acceptance of choice that my dad was like, you know what I did, this is, this is just as much my fault as it is this jerk off doctors, right? Like I have to accept this. I made the choice to do this and I've got to move on. And so he went to Carson Newman two years in blows out his knees. Well, now it's like, well, what am I supposed to do with my life? I was really good at football and now I can't even play it anymore.

Right. So he comes back and he starts selling. And then the process, like when I, when I think about his story and I think about this, the, just the general choices that he had to make his intentionality behind those choices and also the evolution of my father, I think about small things such as he was an alcoholic until he was 35 years old. I was a year and four months and he got sober and changed his entire life and his mindset in that moment. Because things like leading up to that, that moment of choice, you know, around sobriety in particular were, you know, some of it divine to an extent, like a lot of it, like you could call happenstance or coincidence, but I look at it as, you know, through a digital choice comes intentional outcomes.

And so for me, like looking at my father and the way that, that he structured his life and how he would, he was very good at like turning the switch and saying like, yo, this is not helping anything in my life, period, right? Like, it's not good for me to, to take a bunch of people out for drinks at 12 o'clock just because I want to sell them copiers. That's not a good thing, right? It's not healthy for my body. It's not healthy for my family life. It's not healthy for the relationships I'm building with these men and women that I'm trying to, you know, raise awareness around of who I am and build a brand. And so I, I take a lot of what my father had taught me to heart. He's my hero, bro. And, and, and still he always will be, bro.

And I know you can, you can share that sentiment because even when now that my dad's been gone for six years, um, it's, it's as if he never left, right? I, I, I, I accept that he's gone, but I make my choices based around the values that he taught me that, that were like, Hey Dale, this is the other thing that I think people need to really understand that's hard is that, Hey Dale, like it's cool to honor my legacy, but also you need to live out your own. You have a son that's going to look up to you the same way you did to me. You need to flip that switch for yourself as well too. And I think I've flipped it a few times in my life, but it's funny how like, you know, you like walk in your dad's shoes or your mentor shoes or this person that taught you all these things, shoes, you know, whatever your story is that I'm 36.

Like I told you earlier, my dad, 35, he like did a whole life reroute, right? I'm 36. I literally just did the same thing. I woke up one day and said, I'm struggling with my mental health. I'm and continually, I keep lying to myself as if somehow I'm beating it for a couple of years when really it's just lying dormant, but it's still in existence. I'm sitting in comfort. That's not, and that's not who I am. I'm a person that loves risk. It's why I'm in sales. That's why I played sports. It's why I was in music. I love the idea behind risk and doing something very non-traditional. I didn't go to college, right? All these small things and choices in my life. And I'm, I'm looking at my life and just realizing, yo, I am literally living my own version of the status quo and building my own version of mediocrity, even if it isn't the same as the majority of people's, but I'm in it.

And, you know, so after three years of running this business, I, you know, at the sales environment, I had this awakening that, you know, it's not even about the business, bro. It's about, it's about your happiness. It's about your passion. It's about the thing that the thing that you're building isn't just for you. If it was just for you, people wouldn't be bought into it and it wouldn't be changing their lives to begin with. So you have to recognize for yourself, Dale, that it's, it is, your choices are extremely important right now, my guy. And, and that they're selfish to an extent, because sure, like you might be making them strategically or you might be making them because it looks good from a status perspective or this or that, but like who fucking cares, John, right?

Like nobody cares, bro. No. And I've been told that my whole life, nobody cares as much as you, Dale. But here I am at 36, still making decisions that I think other people care about and based on that. Right. So, so for me, you know, the journey, it's not over by any means. I just like, I've hit a new stride where like I can, I can lean further into my faith. I can lean further into my family. I can lean further into my business. I can lean further into my community because I'm finally really, truly focused on the things that make me happy and not just on the outside, bro, like intrinsically deep within my soul. So, you know, that's where I'm at today, man. Cool. I love it, man. So you said something, I was reading through your post and you said something that really, as it relates to this, struck me.

It says, if you want a better life in sales, as a, in your sales career, build an amazing life that you crave to be a part of. I love that. And, and we talk a lot about, and I've been doing this, a lot of research on goal setting. I mean, I've, look, I've always been a goal setter, right? But I've, I've been more of an evolutionist. I'm not like a hardcore, like sticking the ground and I got no other thing that, that I'm doing than that. And I, and I envy people that do that, by the way, I envy people who have like that huge goal and they're going for it and it's all in. But then there's this also the concept that I came across, which is set dumb goals and dumb goals are dream driven, uh, uplifting method, friendly and behavior driven.

And the whole concept there is, and I, it struck me that smart goals are cool, but in a lot of ways they limit us because it's, it's, it's okay. It's attainable. So let me go do that. And it makes me feel good that I can check off that box, but dumb goals, what it does is it limits our creativity. It limits our dreams. It limits our vision of what we possibly could do. And so talk to me a little bit about how you're, you're building an amazing life that you crave to be a part of, as it relates to not just like day-to-day smart goals, but bigger, more meaningful goals for you. Yeah. So I'll start with, by saying like, when I think back to my foundations and I think about my mentors, I think about how I had like all the people that were weird, right.

In my life, like to most people, they were like the most audacious people. They like, for the most part, you know, people looked at the guys and girls I surrounded myself with as, and just not the kind of folks that they would want to personally be around because they dream so much bigger and they live these very audacious lives and they, and they don't play by the rule book either. So, you know, I had people that were saying like, Hey dude, you don't need to go to college. If you want to play in a band, if that's your thing, if that's what you're into, then just do it and go as far as you possibly can until you get to that place where you say, I want something else in my life. And don't look at it at that moment, even as like a failure to say like, somehow you weren't able to make it work the way you, you, you know, people I should say would ultimately desire for it to work.

And I, and that gave me a really good perspective of again, like what does the world tell us a success? Like they say, Oh, you want to be in a band? If you're not the real windstones, you weren't successful. Right. That's like literally the way that people look at music. Right. And, and for me, I looked at it as like, okay, I'm playing a band and I'm extremely happy. Right. And at a certain point it was like, I'm playing a band. I'm extremely happy. I have a lot of passion for these things. I love what I'm doing. And then on top of it, it was like, but right. When the buts start to kick in is when, you know, you, you decide for yourself in those moments of like, what needs to change here? Right.

Because the other side of it is that we're always evolving. Right. So when I look at like dumb goals, for example, cause I love that. I love how you said that, dude. I think that's one of the best things in the world. Every time I hear people, you know, encouraging other folks to like, just put like the weirdest stuff at the top of your goal with the strat, I think. And I think it's freaking wonderful because whoever looked at Dale Dupree at 16, 17 years old and was like, Oh, totally. This guy's going to be in a band and they're going to tour all over the United States. It's like, and on Warner Brothers records, right? Nobody ever, nobody was saying that. Right. But in my mind and in my heart, I manifested those things.

I believed in those things. And so for me, it's also about this idea of like, do not make a plan B for yourself. And again, that's my preference. Right. I would, I would caveat it with that as well too. Like that's how I look at it personally. So, you know, from that perspective of, of having a plan B, like maybe even plan B works for you. But for me, it's like when you're going so hard after the, the goal, the original plan, the thing that you want and desire that if, if what comes of that is something else to me, like that's just the natural evolution of your journey and the walk that you're on in the first place. But listen, if your goal is like, Hey, I just want to make like $60,000 since here and, and sit behind this desk and do this paperwork and have this boss and, you know, like, if that's your goal, like, I don't like to me, like that is not necessarily building happiness.

What that's building is like a safety structure and net underneath you that you look at and go like, Oh, well, at least I have this job where I make $60,000 a year. And I have a boss, I have an owner of my company. So if the company fails, there's not my fault, not my problem. Right. Like there's, there's a lot to that. And I think that people just, they, they don't look at it in a way that is, that truly will satisfy them in life. And that's why people chase their quote unquote dreams until they're 55, 60 years old. When they finally just say, you know, F it, I'll just retire and take my pension and collect social security. Right. So I, dude, I can't even imagine what that's like. I'm 36 years old at this point.

And I'm like driving as hard as I can toward the most ridiculous things that I can possibly drive toward in the first place. And it makes me happy. It makes me fulfilled. And it also, it really helps with my family structure, with my relationship with my wife of 19 years now with my son who's four years old. Like it just really, truly helps a lot of the things that I'm like currently in as well too. And not, and, and, and not just what my business success looks like, bro. It's like everything encapsulated into one. You know, I have a real similar, I had a little bit of an evolution on the plan B because I used to be one of my 12. Actually, it wasn't, I had 10 guidelines to success. And then I got fired from, so my little company got bought by Staples.

They fired me. And, and I was, even though I knew it was wrong, it was like, holy shit. And I was panicked. Cause I was like, I didn't have a plan B. So I added to my list, make sure you have a plan B. But then I realized plan B takes away from plan A. Right. So if you're, if you're constantly look and, and I understand side hustles and all that other stuff. Right. But I think it does take away. So I switched that to when I'm making decisions, I ask myself, this is how I literally make decisions to this day, which is what's the worst case scenario. But literally let me paint out. If I do this, if, if I go for that, whatever it might be, what is the absolute worst case scenario? And if I'm okay with that worst case scenario, I fucking do it.

If I'm not okay with that worst case scenario, I try, I think of some other options. And I boil that all the way down to like individual sales stuff. Like here's an example. Say you got a deal and you got to close the end of the quarter and you haven't talked to power yet. Right. And that, and your, your main point of contact won't let you talk to their boss. And you know, you got to talk to the boss in order to get this shit done. Well, ask yourself, what's the worst case scenario. If I go over this person's head, well, worst case scenarios, I lose the deal. If you're okay with losing the deal, then fuck it, go over their head. If you're not, maybe try a different approach. Right. So these types of things, I think it's an evolution.

The, the one thing I wanted to ask though, because you talk a lot about, you know, what society says, you know, your version of the status, you were living your version of the status quo. I was putting together a keynote and, and my original thought was stop doing what you're supposed to do. Right. Cause there's been a couple of times in my life where I've been woken. I was doing what I thought I was supposed to do. And all of a sudden somebody else made the decision for me, even though I knew it was wrong. Somebody else made the decision for me. And it was the greatest thing that like my first wife, she, my first fiance, she bailed on me and I thought it was terrible, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Staples fired me. I thought it was the worst thing cause I had never been fired before. It was the best thing that could ever happen. So I was like, fuck it. Stop doing what you're supposed to do. Do what you want to do. What do, what makes you happy. The problem though, is I saw this tweet by a millennial that struck me. He said, it's all well and good. Like Gen Xers here, you guys had a framework to follow that there was comfort in. So you said the $60,000 a year, like there was certain comfort for the masses of, Hey, you get a job. Then you get promoted in that job. Then you get to be a manager and you, you, you marry somebody, you buy a house, you have a kid, like all these kinds of norms, if you will.

But this millennial was like, yeah, well, he's like, you guys had that. We don't have that anymore, but which is great. But now I don't know what to do. I can do anything and I don't know what to do. So it's almost like he was begging for like a framework of some guidance of how to make decisions in this new world. How would you guide somebody like that about, you know, now that the norms are fuck it, you can literally be on Tik TOK and do some dumb ass dances and make a million fucking dollars. If you hit it right, you know, like you could, you don't have to go to school. You can switch jobs 15 times in five years and it's still cool. Like how would you guide somebody now without those guidelines of building that life that they want to be a part of?

What a, what a dope question. And I think, I think what's cool about it too, is that I literally, when you were saying the tech talk thing, I literally had a conversation with my wife like last week where we were joking and, and, and said, so do we have a kid so that we can have a YouTube channel and like make a million bucks off of our kid? Is that why we did that? Like, because that's what everybody's doing. Right. So it's like, like, is that the strategy? Should we be like leaning into this? But, but here's the thing. So there's two things that come to mind, bro. So a, I'm a millennial, right? So I look at that question and I sit back and I say, but bro, what about a hundred years ago? What about 150 years ago?

What about like, there's many other generations that did not have any kind of identity to toward, I should say like the way that the world would build on success. Cause that person's right. Like right now it's, you know, the gap, especially in income between the middle class, the lower class, or even the middle class and higher class, it has never been wider. And so it's hard to buy a house. Right. Is that even like, in most cases, people would recommend that you rent an apartment until you're done paying off your $800,000 student loan. And like, see, here's the thing though, dude, is that these are all choices dictated to us by the way society works. And to me, like immediately, especially like as adults and as, as mentors, as fathers, you and I have a, have a, an obligation to help people to understand that the rules are meant to be broken.

No matter how you, you, you look at it, the rules are meant to be broken because the rules are made for a certain type of person, a certain type of society, a certain way that you look at life. And that goes, that does not build, I should say on authenticity. It does not build on something that's very genuine or mindful for the person that is like reading the rule book in the first place. So if I was sitting with that millennial right now, the first thing I would ask him is I would just say, well, what do you want? Right. Like I get that you don't have a structure or someone telling you exactly how you should do it, but in your heart of hearts, like, what do you want? What do you desire? And this is where I think the biggest gap is, is that most people, they would say back to that, what I want is I want a home, I want a dog, I want a good job.

And I think that the problem with that is that they don't understand that those things lead them in their mind to happiness, but they don't see that end result. They just see the thing right in front of them right now that would make them normal, right? Bro, we bought, so when we sold our house, I mean, we sold a house in a million dollar neighborhood that was over 3000 square feet that we've lived in for the last five years with my childhood home, most people know the story, cliff notes are that my father passed away of cancer, I bought the house to keep it in the family as a legacy, you know, item. And, and I realized that it was status more than it was a legacy item, right? Like my dad didn't even want to be in that house, man.

He tried to sell it more times than I can count. And I lied to myself about that and said, no, this honors my father, right? Like that's just how naive I was about the whole thing. Or just like persistent about being able to quote unquote honor my dad, right? Sometimes we can get blinded by when we're doing things for good, quote unquote, we can be blinded in those instances. And I would, I would encourage people to really just open their eyes or heart and mind to other people speaking into their lives, even if they think they're doing something good, right? But if we go back to me selling this house, like, bro, we sold everything. I'm 36 years old and we sold everything. We own 10% of the things that we did before.

So we sold 90% of our things. And most of it we gave away for, for nothing. We just gave it away to bless somebody else. And to also say, these things don't have a hold on us, right? And we bought a camper van. We don't even have a home yet, bro. We rent the place that we're at in the middle of a mountain in Tennessee. Shout out to, uh, to Buckley for keeping me company every once in a while up here. But again, the thought process is, is for me, it's like, why do we hang on to stuff? Why do we hang on to what this, what the world is? Cause here's the thing to that millennial that might be listening right now. That's like, I didn't have a playbook like the Gen Xers. So what dude, that's just an excuse.

And would you prefer a playbook because the most successful Gen Xers didn't play by the rules, right? And that's the thought process. It's like, don't use that as an excuse. That's stupid. Write your own playbook and say like, okay, well, my generation doesn't have one. So let's figure it out. Right. Instead of sitting around, you know, at mellow mushroom, you know, spending every dime you got at the bar and, you know, because it's the cool thing to do and then turn around and complain about the fact that you don't have money and you don't have a playbook. And, you know, all the things that, again, that, that our, our, my generation thinks is it like gives them status and keeps them normal, right?

Like all the habits, all the, all the small things that they could literally say no to and change their literal lives over. What's up everybody. I know you're enjoying this conversation. John does a great job with genuine curiosity on these episodes and our guests consistently bring the heat. We want to take a moment here and let you know that you've got an opportunity, an opportunity to become better than you were yesterday. And you can do so by gaining access to all of JB sales content, all of their training tips, techniques, tactics, and takeaways can be yours for $1 a day. $365 for the year gets you annual access to everything, including our private Slack channel for members only, which you get access to all of us directly a hundred percent of the time, 24 hours a day.

And then at the same time, you're going to get access to our bi-weekly ask me anything sessions where you can bring real deals to the table and get the help that you need where you need it. This is very, very important. Sales reps that invest in themselves are often found at the tops of their leaderboards. Join us today and get the help you need to become the seller that you deserve to be. That URL one more time is joinjbsales.com. Let's get back to the show with JB and our guests for this week. What do you think about understanding the rules so you can break them first versus just fuck it, do your own thing? So, cause, cause part of me is like, you can't really break the rules until you understand the rules and then you break them.

Right. Cause that's what I fear a lot about kids. And I say kids in a very general way. It's a Boston thing. I call everybody a kid, but, but you know, if you're in school right now, if you're coming out of school and you're like, fuck it, I'm just going to do, I don't care what, what society's rules are. I'm going to do, I'm going to paint my own path, which I envy those people versus let me figure out the rules. Let me figure out how this game is played so I can break it. And I'm going to give one quick analogy again, all the way down to super tactical is that, you know, the, the young professionals that you and I both deal with on a regular basis who are being told to make $50 a day, a hundred dollars, you know, whatever it is.

And they know it's wrong. They don't want to do it and they bitch about it before they actually, before they do what they're told, they, they bitch about it thinking that it's not right. And so my philosophy has always been do what you're told for a little while, figure out the game, do a, maybe a little side hustle to come back and start to prove some things wrong and then earn the right to break those rules. Like that's been my philosophy, but I also envy people who literally don't play a lot of the rules in any way, shape or form and say, fuck it. I don't care what the rules are. I'm going to do my thing. Where are you at on that? I think it comes down to awareness, right? Cause like every one of us has like a specific level of awareness of the three most important pieces of awareness, awareness of self awareness of others and situational awareness.

So I think, I think when we can sit back and we can, we can know ourselves and our awareness level is the most important thing to start with. So if I need to play by the rules to figure that out, I think it's important for people to understand because like, this is about meeting yourself where you are. This isn't about questioning authority. Even this is about literally like saying like, well, what about me? Like, who am I? What do I desire? What are the outcomes that I want to build for myself? And like, and the thing is that most people don't have that answer, right? They don't because they lack awareness of themselves and they lack awareness of others. And they lack awareness of the situations that they're in, whether that's their home situation, their work situation, like it doesn't really matter what it is.

Like it's, it's a lack of awareness is what it comes down to. So I think the first thing that people have to really look at is that perspective of what is their, their awareness. Cause it's like you said, if I beat down this identity of 50 to a hundred calls a day as a salesperson, but I, I've really not like lived it. I've not like gone through those trenches. I've not done that. Like I don't, I'm not, I'm a guy that like, doesn't really like auto dialers. So sorry for any of your listeners that are like self connected or whatever else, right? But like, I'm not a fan of those, but here's the thing is that I used them to, to, to tell myself that I actually don't like them. I wasn't like, Oh, that seems stupid.

I actually literally went out and I use them. I use them very effectively, very efficiently. And I found that it's not for me and that it, it does something to most sales reps to that disconnects them from the true outcomes that they can have. And it said, they just, they depend on something else. And I think that's the other side of it is dependency. What are you dependent on? Are you dependent? Like, do you have to have a paycheck? Right? Because listen, there are a lot of people out there that don't get one and are the happiest humans you've ever met in your entire life. So like, there's a lot to me, you know, like, again, we just built this like weird thing for ourselves. In most cases, we like put everything in a box, put everything in a bubble.

We focus on, you know, the rules around those things. So when it, coming back to the core of your question of like, can we break, should we learn the rules to break them? Listen, I am a radical human being, right? That's the best way to describe me. I'm very artsy. I'm very fartsy. I'm very much into the creative side of life. I'm open-minded. I love people. I love differences. I'm very weird in general. So like, for me, it's always been easy to take risks. But here's something I'd never said ever, except for right now in this exchange, publicly. I've said this privately plenty of times. The copier warrior was born in 2009, late 2009. I started selling in 2007, bro. So for an entire three, almost two, almost three years, I played by the rules.

I followed the guidelines. I was told to do things like $100 a day, and I did it. And once I had gotten myself to this point of understanding where everybody was coming from, I think the other side to it that we have to make sure we're encouraging people on is that there's power in that. That knowledge, that experience, it creates aptitude. Aptitude is one of the most powerful things that we can have in our business and life careers, right? Because if I have aptitude in any situation that I'm in, I can understand what needs to happen to be able to accommodate, not just myself, but the people around me to build an outcome that is very desirable. That's my full take on it. I love it. And that's kind of my take on it, too, is my opinion is unless you are going to be your own show, okay, and you really aren't ever going to build anything where people are going to rely on you or you're going to have to work with others or anything like that, to a certain degree, you got to figure out the game because even though you might be the rule breaker, even though you might be the whatever it is, most people aren't.

So understanding that mindset of the people who know how to play the game. Like, for instance, I am envious of people who have figured out how to play the corporate game in the right way, not douchebag wise, you know what I mean? Not just because they're, you know, but genuinely, like there's this one guy, Jim Hoppe, to this day, I still, I talk about this guy. He used to work over at HP. I forget where he's at now, but he was the most genuine guy I've come across and everybody above him, he was a VP, but at HP, right? So he had executives above him. Everybody above him loved him and everybody below him would die for him. And that's rare, right? In the corporate world, you either kiss the ass of the people above you and your people below you hate you, or they know you are a kiss ass, or you protect the people below you and you know, and you'll never get promoted because the people above you hate you.

He figured out how to play this game and be his authentic self and be genuine and be, you know, wholesome and all that stuff. And I looked at him like, man, that is a skill I do not have because I have no filter. And if I think you're full of shit, I don't give a shit if you're Mark Benny off, I'm going to tell you you're full of shit, right? So those are the type of things that it's, it's, I do think there is something to look, if you're going to go off on your own, go off on your own, right? Carve your own path. But if you ever think that you're going to be in a scenario where you have to coordinate and work with other people, you have to learn some of the guidelines and some of the rule and you have to have done it.

Cause think about you, you and me telling people how to make cold calls when we've never, if we've never made a cold call before, you said you use that dialer. I did the same thing. I talk shit about dialers, not because I think dialers are shitty and I, and I think they're terrible for the industry. I use the fucking thing and I was, it was a heart attack in a box for me. I was like, this is like, you know, so I've lived it and I'm a little concerned right now with the generation coming in that they're almost trying to skip too many steps to get to that, whatever that success definition in their head is, or what other people think it should be. So how many steps can you skip? Cause, cause the whole thing for me is why I do what I do is my hope is I've made a shit load of mistakes in my life.

Okay. In my career and my life. And, and my hope is, is that people listening will, will learn from them and not have to make as many, but still have to take your lumps. Everybody's got to take your lumps. So where are you on the, you got to take your lumps before you earn it versus fuck it, man, go for yours. So do you skip the steps? Like you might get to the top, but they will bite you later in life and they will bite you in ways that we can't really pinpoint for people. So take like a, a 21, 22 year old kid that becomes a millionaire. Cause he thought up some really cool thing for Instagram and everybody bought it. Right. There's two things that I think of one is like instant gratification doesn't last beyond a few years, unfortunately, especially if it's not being innovated.

So here you, here you have somebody that skipped a lot of steps and a ton of success. Now, unfortunately, I'm not saying this because I don't like that kind of success or that I envy it. Unfortunately, because of those skip steps, other bad things in that person's life are going to come up at a certain point that they're going to go, Oh, I missed this. I didn't pay attention to this. And now I'm going to suffer from this. And it might not have anything to do with their business or their wealth. I'm talking about like, you know, getting married to a girl after being like super sheltered in your life when you're 18 or 19 years old. And then having that kind of money and all that's thrown out at you is sex and fame and celebrity status, right?

Bro, you're cheating on your wife. And I don't like, I'm sorry. That's what's going to happen unless you are literally, unless you are literally working to make it to where that will not happen. And so I think the side of it that, again, it goes back for me, it goes back to that awareness piece. It's like, what is my level of awareness? If I'm skipping steps, am I aware of that? Can I sit back and can I say, cool, like this could ruin my relationship with my significant other, this success, not make it better, could ruin it. And do I care about that? And really like, that's what it comes down to. Like asking those types of questions to yourself either. So, so bro, I don't think you can necessarily skip steps, right?

I think that's my two cents is that you, you, you can skip them, right? But like, they're going to come, they're going to come back at some point. Like, like you just said, if we, the thing that I got a visual of is like getting in the trenches with people. When I became a VP of sales, my team sold about eight or $900,000 in revenue in six months. And it was a feat. I mean, we were told like, whoa, we've never seen a team built that fast from scratch and write that kind of money in a dead territory, you know, selling copiers. And this is the thing that I never mentioned during that time. I mentioned it now, you know, sparingly, but like I, 400 grand of that pipeline was mine. I closed it and I gave it to those reps.

I went to those deals. I made them come with me even and said, you're coming and working these with me. You're going to learn how to do this. I'm going to do it with you. I'm going to go on your cold calls and still give you deals on top of it. I'm going to do, I'm going to drop crumpled letters with you, not just tell you that that's what I did to create success. I'm going to literally do these things with you. I'm never going to stop doing them. And we're going to fix, you know, together through identity awareness and ideas, whatever issues we're running into in the year, 2016 and 17 and 18 and 19. Cause it's always the, the landscape of sales and success is always going to be changing. And if we're not thinking forward and, and, and not just saying like, oh, I did the steps, but like, there are more steps, even when you get to the top.

And sometimes you're going to go back to the original steps and be like, Hey, I need to get back into this thing that I've accomplished, but that's coming back. And it's, it's beating me up or it's haunting me, or it's causing more, you know, you know, less success I should say in my life. And so I need to focus on it and taking away with happiness and those type of things you talked about before. And you know, the analogy or the, the example I use on this one is, uh, and yet you'll probably appreciate this is, uh, uh, Justin Bieber from a musician standpoint, right now, don't get me wrong. I, I, I actually hated him. Okay. I literally, I was like, who's this little shit, whatever. And you know, he's 16 years old driving Lamborghinis with monkeys and all this other stuff.

And I saw an interview with him, um, uh, while back and he was like, yeah, you know, reflecting back on all the mistakes he made and all the steps that he skipped, right. To get to, to, to that level of success as fast as he got there. He was, and, and, and I was like, duh, fuck this kid. But he said something that was really interesting to me. He said, all right, let me ask you all you people out there who are giving me shit for what I did and who I am and all that. I said, let me ask you if you were 14 years old and a multi millionaire with no restrictions on you at all, what kind of kid would you have been? And I was like, and that hit me like a ton of bricks. Cause I was a delinquent child.

Like I burned shit down. I broke stuff. I can't imagine what I would have been like if I had a hundred million dollars in the bank and nobody telling me what to do. Like I would have fucking, I probably would have burned the whole planet down for crying out loud. If I could, I would have bought a hundred Lamborghinis. I would have had monkeys all over my house. And so he, you know, so, and he was his reflection on who he was versus who he is now was a really powerful thing. And it changed my opinion of him. It really did. I did. I changed it from who this little YouTube little shit who skipped a bunch of steps, became a fucking millionaire because we're in that society now. And, and yes, I, I didn't like who he was, but who he is today, man, I got a huge amount of respect for Bieber now for who he is today.

Oh, I also wonder like if we were to sit with him and have this type of conversation, like what would his reflection be in private also? Cause I think the public persona versus the private, a lot of people, they don't intertwine those. Like I've made it a goal in my life from the very beginning to always like, since I started taking the stage to be exactly on stage as I was when I was off, that was always the goal. It was how do we be extraordinarily authentic and transparent with people? But a guy like him was like kind of forced into this fake persona because he had to maintain the structure and the integrity of the things that were bringing him success. And they were fake for the most part, because I don't think he is the guy, bro.

He's the guy that like wears pajamas to the, to the, the crappy bodega on the corner of some random street in the middle of nowhere to like grab a hot dog at two in the morning with someone he loves. Like that's what he actually truly is. And we've gotten to seeing glimpses of that, like in his older stages of life, because he, he finally doesn't have, the other thing of it is that when you skip the steps, bro, is that the restrictions will be put in place on your life. Just to say, and those restrictions are gone for him. And so we're getting to see like more of his authentic self and, and his journey, which should be inspiring to people. Right. And I do agree with you. When you look at something like that, it is hard to just be like, oh, this seems good.

You know, like this, this guy is probably cool. Like, it's, it's hard to do that. Like for the most part, we as humans are like, why him? Why not me? You know, I think that all the time when I think of, when I see people like interact with their fathers and I think about my relationship with mine and like, and I say to myself, like, why does this person still get a dad? Right. Like it should be mine. You know, I, I have those same thoughts. I think what's really powerful though, is that awareness in that moment to be like, but that doesn't deal. That's not what it's about. And I think that that, again, that that's what like a guy, a celebrity, like we were just talking about, or just a normal SDR that, you know, starts making a hundred thousand dollars, gets promoted to an AE, starts making 250,000, gets promoted to a VP, starts making half a million, then, you know, becomes equity share.

And all of a sudden he's making a million dollars. It's the same journey really that they're on. Like one person sure got to it faster, but if you skip steps in that same journey, you know, that you're on like doing the process and, you know, not making your millions until you're 45, like most do in the first place, right? Like there are still steps in there that those people have to be very cognizant of and very aware of because there'll be 47 years old, getting a divorce, you know, and, and having to lose custody of their three children because they got addicted to alcohol or they, they became so ingrained in this process of getting to success and they skipped the things that really mattered in their life.

And I think there's a lot of things that you and I can relate to people on with that in regards to success coming fast and furiously because we worked really hard to get it. Right. I remember being 26 and all of a sudden I got a half a million dollars, you know, in my W-2 from selling copy machines. Right. And like, that was a really wild feeling for me, but I always, I'm so grateful, bro, for the men and women in my life that were able to, to be like, Hey, great job way to work hard and do that. But don't forget these things that you're not focusing on right now because you're so wrapped up in the success and the safety of this, this money. Right. I think that's a big piece of the puzzle too.

Well, you, and here's another, and this is something that struck me again with one of your recent posts. You said, why do we constantly glorify things in our life that hinder us from ultimate happiness and freedom? Could you talk a little bit about this? This is the, and these are like the smaller things like stuff that, I mean, look, we, we talk about the, you know, the, the jets and the, like, that's the obvious stuff. We glorify bullshit things like the bling bling and all that other stuff. But what are some of the small things that, that we glorify that we might not think otherwise, you know, that we might not think are hindering our goals. What are some of those? Yeah. You know, I mean, like some of the first ones that come to mind are like arrogance or selfishness and like, and this is the thing is that we don't look at it that way.

What we see though, what we're doing, right? Instead of thinking that we're being arrogant or selfishness, we're saying, this makes me happy. This thing makes me happy. Right. And, and then there's, so there's moments right in our lives. There's like every day I do this, I have this rhythm, right? I go out with my best friends and I have a beer, right? And all of a sudden, like five, six years later, I'm 20, I'm 26 and I'm still trying to live those habits. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, they're ruining everything in my life, right? They're ruining my outlook. They're ruining my relationship with myself. Just as much as the ruining my relationship with the world and with people and with, and with what truly matters, right?

So sometimes it's, it is literally just like attributes, it's mindsets, it's relation, it's relationship driven. Like a lot of the times, like the things we glorify, it's like you just said, it's, you don't give, I really don't give a crap if you drive a nice car or fly a private jet. If that makes you happy, that's freaking awesome, man. I'm super stoked for you. It's never been my thing. And the reason that's never been my thing though, is because I've experienced death in my life. I've been, I have tried to commit suicide and literally the only thing that saved me was another human being that stopped it, right? And that literally saved my life. Like I have been to the end. And so I understand all the things in between that we think bring us happiness, but really they're just part of the empty void.

They cover it up is all, it's like callusing something, you know, throughout time, like you're, you're a boxer, right? And you wrap your, your, your hands, but you still build calluses in that process. And every time you punch somebody, it gets easier and easier to do that, right? Like over and over again, like we don't tend to look at certain things in our life that, that are really harming us in that same light that like, you're punching this thing over and over again and getting really used to it, right? To the point that like, you can just do it naturally. But the problem is, is, is what is it building for you, right? You never really ask yourself that. You just go, Oh, this makes me happier.

This is normal. This is what people do because this is the culture I've been submerged into. You got to step outside that box. I was, I was very grateful to have the upbringing I had. I was born and raised in the church and my dad gave me choice. He wasn't like, you have to go to church. My dad was like, yo, what'd you think of church? And if I was like, yeah, I don't really know about this Jesus cat, bro. Like my dad'd be like, well, talk to me about it, man. Like he, my dad was like very open to those conversations and like, let me, even at a young age, make choices and believe for myself and get bought in for myself. Right. And at 17, imagine bro, like you're touring the entire United States with a bunch of sweaty dudes.

No idea what you're doing playing in front of sometimes five, sometimes 5,000 people. And it's all new, right? The temptations that come with that, the things that can be developed in us as people that we think are good for us. But, and we glorify them, bro. Like, uh, I love being backstage in the green room. You know, that's where you can find most musicians. Well, backstage in the green room is where the heroin is. It's where the crack is. It's where the, it's where the three girls are that are going to literally ruin your life back at home. And you're never going to see your kids again. Right. Like there's, there's so much more to it that we just don't think about, but, but instead we, we give ourselves this moment of, uh, for us, it seems like success, but it's just like, it's a moment of emptiness really is what it is.

Like you might feel a little pleasure. You might feel a little bit of like, oh, I like this, but man, oh man, is it amazing when you can finally sit back and look at those things from like a third party perspective or hear other people's opinions or experience it in a way that you're detached from the outcomes to an extent, because you question it, you question your motivation, you question your reasoning, you question like, is this actually working and helping me? And I, and again, like, I think that's that piece of, of Dale that I'm just super grateful for that I'll always express that. Like that was a part of me that was a, it was very privileged because I had a dad that was ultimately aware.

I had a mom that was ultimately aware. I, I had a lifestyle that built on that awareness and, and like, for example, when I was struggling with depression and tried to commit suicide, it wasn't a taboo subject. We talked about it. We worked through it. They helped me with those emotions and they didn't call me a baby or be a man about it. I never heard that language, bro. I heard love instead. And it gave me this identity, this, this ability, I should say, to buy into an identity that was actually Dale and not the things that like on the surface made me happy, but something much deeper that made me happy. Yeah, man, I think you're right. That blessing of, of having that, you know, parent who is open, you know, and I, and I strive to do the same thing with my daughter.

It's like, I don't dictate anything. It's like, Hey, I expose her to stuff and then let's have some conversations about this. And, uh, I'm, you know, hoping it has the same type of effect. Cause, cause we weren't like my, my parents were extremely supportive. They were, they were great, but we weren't deep in any way, shape or form. Like we didn't like talk about real shit. Right. So I did have to kind of break my own mentality of what it, what things should be. Right. Because they, they were the, even they would their, with their words, they weren't, but with their actions, they were like both my parents were rule breakers period. And so I, I had that, but I still had the society component of this telling, you know, going through what I was supposed to do.

And also being on the East coast. I mean, let's, you know, let's be real. East coast is, is a lot more rooted in traditional tradition and standard shit. I mean, especially here in Massachusetts for crying out loud. I mean, like revolutionary war started here for crying out loud. And, and, and we move. And so there's, we're deep rooted in that stuff. So I had to kind of learn my way through it, but I feel blessed that I was able to, you know, play by the rules for a certain period of time. So I knew how to break them going back to it. Right. And, and ultimately live. I think the one, the last thing is, you know, you said the best salespeople, and I think the best people in general live and breathe their personal brands and about authenticity and that authenticity, their personal brand can't, can't be something who they aren't.

Right. It has to be who they are. It has to be their authentic self. And I do think it takes a while for people to step into that. Right. So look, man, any, any last thoughts on this before we wrap this up? We've covered a lot of fucking ground here, but any last thoughts before we wrap it up? Yeah. You know, I think like the thing that comes to mind is the word patience, you know, in all of this, because, because I think it's easy for you and I to sit here and talk about it with our experience and our, our gained aptitude through those experiences and other people's experiences, right? Our mentors, our, our family members. Like, I think it's easy for us to talk about it, but I think the thing that's always been hard, no matter how we look at it as the patience piece that comes with it, like be patient with yourself, like meet yourself where you are.

I think those are things that people really truly need to hear about this topic and just in general, because that's what it's about. It's about really understanding that it is, we structure things too much, right? Like if you think that you're not getting success because you're, because like the guy next to you has more sales and he's making more money, you're lying to yourself, right? You're not being patient with yourself. You're not being understanding with yourself. And so, again, I think that the ultimate reality here for anybody listening is that with, with success comes patience, it comes patience and it comes passion, right? If we're passionately patient in that same, in that order and in a manner that is, that doesn't just accomplish the surface level goals, bro.

But that, you know, when I was the copier warrior, for example, when I'd go and I'd make a goal call, people would never forget it. I'd show up with a caroling company. I'd drop off a six foot cardboard cutout of me, stabbing a copy machine. And I did it in the name of cherishing other people, showing them love, making them feel happiness as well too, that, wow, this is a unique experience. And I feel privileged to be a part of this. And that, that's a, that's a mutual ground, bro, because I feel privileged to be able to be here at your office to talk to you in the first place. So, you know, for me, it's about that patience, that passion, and, and really just understanding, like, when you sit back and you look at the success that you want, not to desire it so much that you'll do anything to get there, but to desire it so much that you will, that you will think about the things that realistically have to be done in order to get there.

Risk, perseverance, the identity of doing things that are uncomfortable. And, and that's, what's really ultimately going to give people success that are listening to this, that are trying to level up. I love it, man. So, dude, I love your, I love your perspective. And I sure as shit wish I had it 10 years ago where you are right now. But, you know, we all, we all get there eventually. Hopefully we all get there eventually. And I think some things in our lives, sometimes, you know, one of the things I got from that, because I did do that Sedona thing for three days, kind of the soul adventure thing. And, you know, it was some quotes and some stuff that came out of that. But the whole idea that life happens for you, not to you, that hit me pretty hard.

So, cause it's about, you know, the, to your point earlier, like, oh, woe is me and, you know, bullshit and da, da, da, da, versus, all right, that happened. How, you know, how do I roll with this? That, that happened. I don't agree. I've, I've backed off of this one. I don't agree that everything happens for a reason. Cause I think there's some bad-ass shit that happens in this world that is not like, I think it would be disingenuous to say, oh, that happened for a reason. But I do believe that you, if you look hard enough, there's a silver lining to almost any scenario you can look for. And so that mentality for me, it's, it's, it's a mind switch because if it's, everything happens for a reason, then it's like, then what the fuck is the point of life?

Because I'm just rolling through and, you know, I could kick somebody right in the nuts right now. Well, that happened for a reason. Like, no, no, no, no, no. Like you have to take responsibility for that. Right. But if, but regardless of how bad something happens or whatever it is, if you, if you do take a step back and change your lens to look differently, that you can find that silver lining that can help you move forward here. So that was one of the things that really struck me. So, and a lot of this is, you know, themes throughout what you've talked about today. And I appreciate it, brother. Yeah, man. I appreciate you letting me come in. Blab on about this stuff. It's always an honor, especially good to hang out with you.

Right. But like it, it is, it's a, it's our, it's my honor to talk about this kind of stuff because it's like you said, it's not that, that the bad has happened to me for a reason. It's that I'm either going to connect with it through my purpose and find the silver lining or I'm going to, I'm going to let it callous me and I'm going to continue to like head in that wrong direction. So I think you summed it up greatly. And I just appreciate the time, man. And I think time's the most important thing that we can give to each other. Great. So I'm grateful for yours, man. Likewise, my friend. Thank you. And thanks for coming on. And I appreciate everything you do and your perspective on things. It's a refreshing one.

I want more people to listen to it. So Dale, where can they find out more about you? It's a, I know. So for those, those listeners, Dale Dupree, D-U-P-R-E-E, but where, is it Sales Rebellion? Where do you want people to go? Yeah. You can head to the salesrebellion.com. We got a new website launching in June. That should be pretty dope for anybody that wants to be patient. Right. We talked about that. Patience. Help patience. Yeah. If you like daily content, head over to linkedin.com backslash I am backslash copier warrior. And I'm on every social site from TikTok to Twitter at Sales Rebellion. Come consume the content. Come be a room. Love it. Awesome, man. Well, thank you again for coming on board.

And everybody, I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did and got some things out of it. We'll get you to think a little bit different. Maybe start to chart your own path and really start to think about what happiness means to you. And like I always say at the end of all the podcasts, as far as spreading happiness here, no matter how bad your day went or how bad you think it is, go out there and make somebody smile today. Because if you make somebody smile, you know you had a good day and the world means a lot more of that. So thank you all for listening and I'll see you on the other side. Thank you so much for your time today and listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.

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