How to Bet on Yourself and Build a Winning Sales Career with Justin Jay Johnson

Welcome to the Make It Happen Monday podcast, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests who I truly respect and I think make a positive impact on the world around us. Now, today's guest is Justin J. Johnson, and this one's a full circle moment for me and him, as a matter of fact. Years ago, I trained Justin as a BDR at Salesforce, and he told me it was the first time he'd heard someone in a corporate setting talk like a normal human being, and now he's a really good friend. At 10 years old, the snowmobile accident left Justin breathing through a tube in his throat, and it took him 15 years to see it as one of the best things that ever happened to him.

He went from closing one deal his entire first year in sales and having that one clawed back to working a $15 million deal at Salesforce with Benioff involved to becoming a CRO at 34 years old. Today, he's a co-founder at Synopsys. We get into grit as a new dad, why you never let the room get too big for you, and the one question he asked before every big decision, what's the worst that can happen? I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I do. Let's make it happen. Hey, real quick, before we get started, I wanted to tell you about a new project I'm working on with my daughter called the Future Founder Project. If you've been following me for a while, you know that when she was six years old, she and I wrote a book called I Want to Be in Sales When I Grow Up.

We wanted to get more kids and more women into sales, and all the profits went to charity. We've donated over $25,000 to the World Wildlife Fund, and the book is still raising money to this day. She's now 16, and we've got a bunch of those boxes still left over, so we're putting them to work. Here's how it works. Every time we raise $500, we sponsor a future founder between the ages of 5 and 15 years old. The kid gets a box of 24 books, a $100 check to seed their first business, and a playbook to help them figure out what they want to build and how to get started. They give back by donating some of those books to kids who don't have access to them. And when they're done, they write a story about what they built and what they learned to go back to the sponsor.

You don't have to cover the full $500 yourself. You can give as little as $10 or as much as $500. Every dollar gets the next kid closer to their box. If you want to chip in or you know a kid that has an entrepreneurial spark who wants to sign up, go to futurefounderproject.com. I truly believe that entrepreneurship is the future of work. This is my way of putting that in kids' hands while teaching my own daughter how to build and run a business. Now let's get into today's episode. Justin J. Johnson, what's going on, brother? How are you doing? Welcome to the Make It Happen Monday podcast, my friend. Living the dream, homie. Good to finally make this happen. Yeah, exactly. It's been a while. And it's funny because it's one of those full circle moments.

I know we've connected a few times recently and gotten to know each other a lot better. But I remember, I think, did I prospect into you back in 2022 or something like that? And you're like, dude, you trained me back in Salesforce. I was like, oh shit. Because I forget how we reconnected after that training. But you said I was one of the first trainings you actually took at Salesforce, right? Yeah, yeah. So you did prospect into me. And quick story on that. I remember when I was at Salesforce, it was BDR training for prospecting. And I remember feeling like a fish out of water, you know, coming from like a blue collar background. I just, I was in this white collar environment. Everyone's so buttoned up and polished.

And here I am sounding like Batman. And I just remember sitting here training. I was like, this is the first time I've felt someone in a corporate environment speaking like a human being, like how I would talk. So outside of like the content, there's more to say, okay, like there's real human beings, you know, that can succeed here that aren't, you know, cut from a different cloth. So, yeah, definitely full circle, man. I appreciate that, man. It's funny because I always say like, you know, I'm unemployable at this point. I think I always have been just because I never really fit into the corporate world. Now, I love working in like with corporate, but like being in corporate just didn't fit for me.

And having that like burden taken off of my shoulders of working for somebody else and saying, okay, John, you kind of have to fit in this box and then be in me, you know, it was fun. And then Salesforce, you know, kind of really didn't give a shit. Like it was like, let's go. So, you know, my little East Coast mentality coming over to the West Coast and having some fun with San Francisco was a fun ride. And I think that's kind of the reality, right? Like both of us, it's the authenticity. It's the no bullshit. It's like sales doesn't, it's not perfect. And we're all coming from different backgrounds here, which is why I love the profession because it kind of opens up the door for anybody. And that for you, like, I mean, you've told your story quite a bit of like, you know, you two near-death experiences, snowmobile accident, breathing through a tube, the whole thing when you were like 10 years old, right?

Let me ask you, you said that that was, that was the best thing outside of your wedding and now your son, by the way, congrats. So the third, but the third best day of your life is when that happened to you. And I know, you know, we all, a lot of us look back and say, you know, green lights, Matthew McConaughey stuff. When, when did it really stand out for you that that was a good thing? Like at what age? Because at 10 years old, I mean, breathing through a tube and all that shit, like you couldn't have been able to process it. So when did it really kind of settle in with you that, man, that was a blessing? It took about 15 years. You know, cause when you're 10 years old, you know, you go from a three sport athlete to, you know, living in the hospital.

I can't even go out for recess. I'm breathing out of a hole in my throat and, you know, surgery after surgery, all you want is to be normal, right? And kids are mean, you know, I was no different. And, you know, trying to figure out how to be, you know, in this world, uh, which is hard enough for a quote unquote normal person, you know, let alone, you know, me who is, who is kind of pulled away from that. Um, and it wasn't until I really became quote unquote like successful and I felt like real consistent success. And when I reverse engineered, what are the things that helped me leverage unintentionally my experience to success? That's when I was able to like actually connect the dots. Um, yeah.

Yeah. Cause I think I've been struggling with this for a while because, you know, now with your kid, you know, you know, grit, right? Like that's something that is really hard to teach, especially if you're coming from a fortunate background, right? Like blue collar, you grew up, so you didn't have a lot, whatever. So, you know, and you went through a shitload to get, so like there was grit there now, but I wonder, you know, now that you, obviously you don't want your son to go through that. You know what I mean? Anything even remotely close to that. If my daughter went through that type of a pain, it would fucking burn me to the ground as, as, as a, as a parent. Yeah. But on the flip side, it's like, how do you, how, how do you develop grit without going through some pain?

And, and I've struggled this myself because I've been extremely fortunate in my life in the sense that I, I blue collar background, but I wasn't, you know, struggling, let's put it that way. Like we, my parents paid for most stuff, did okay in school, went through college, you know, had the whole thing. And I was extremely fortunate in my career. So I have never like quote unquote struggled. Now, have I had shit that's happening to me throughout my life that has kicked me right in the fucking teeth? Absolutely. But like true struggle. So how do you look at grit and now as a dad, how, how do you, how do you balance the lifestyle that you've created for yourself and your wife while, you know, thinking of how do you teach your kid about, you know, how, like the, you know, how to have the grind?

I see that in two parts. The first is when I talk about developing or when I think about developing grit, it was much more around becoming comfortable with death because all of us are going to die, right? There's no secret, but most people don't come to terms with their mortality until they're much older in life. Like once you, your, your, your health starts to decline, you feel it in your joints and you're waking up sore every day when you get older, that's like people really start to be like, oh wow, I'm on the clock. And by that time, you're already so much later in life. So for me, when I talked about like when it actually clicked, when I was, you know, probably in my mid twenties, that's when I realized like, oh, this whole thing that's been fueling me is knowing how close I was to death.

And I just want to die with the gas tank empty. And, and, and that was really, yeah, um, you know, it's, it's, it was that simple. So that's really what fueled me. It was, you know, anger to prove everyone wrong that doubted me. You know, it was, you know, more deep, you know, getting comfortable in my own skin, realizing that no one was coming to save me and just knowing that like, all right, I'm going to die. You know, I, I know how close I was, so let's make, make the most of this thing. And, and that's, what's continued to fuel me still, honestly. And, you know, since having my son, that fire is like reinvigorated to a level that, um, I haven't even felt even myself for a long time. Um, so that's like the first bucket.

The second, it's a really good question because me and my wife talk about this all the time. My wife, you grew up, uh, even humbler beginnings than me. And we constantly talk about, all right, how do we instill those values in our son? And I think it just ultimately comes down to knowing what are the values you want to instill in them and do what's required to put them through what is required in order to develop those values themselves. So, you know, I was just talking to her about this the other day. And why do we put technology in front of babies when all it's going to do is teach them to be less and less patient, right? And everyone's struggling with ADHD and all that. And obviously I'm no expert on this, right?

But, you know, but it's hard. If they're going to cry, let them cry. You know, if they're going to struggle, let them struggle. Right. But you don't save them because no one's coming to save them in the real world. Like, I just think about it as the real world is going to chew you up and spit you out. And it's ruthless. It doesn't care about who your parents were, good or bad. Didn't care about, you know, the neighbor that you grew up in, your education, how cool you were in school or anything. But, you know, the real world is cruel. You know, so you have to, I see it as my duty as a parent to prepare my child or children to go to war. Because that's what's going to happen, right? Are you physically going into a battle?

No, but, like, there's a battle you fight every day to make something of yourself. So that's what we think about. Obviously, I'm early in the journey. So ask me again in five years how it's going. That's at least how we think about it. It's tough, man, because I noticed, you know, I mean, my wife and I have done pretty good. And, you know, we like to, like, take decent vacations. And it's funny because, you know, we're taking a really nice vacation. I remember the first time, and this is going to sound so douchey, but, you know, one of the first times we went to Hawaii, right, with my daughter. She was, like, I don't know, five or something. And we, you know, splurged a little bit. I had some miles, whatever.

So we got a, you know, a villa with a plunge pool. And that was our thing, right? And then, like, the next vacation we go on, she comes out to, like, the general pool area that we had because we were at, like, a Marriott or something like that. And she screams, like, where's the plunge pool? And I'm, like, oh, my God. I'm, like, oh, my God. I'm, like, oh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. I go, I need to let you know that that is not normal. What we did on that scenario is not normal. Yeah. Like, and I need to, but it's, like, the balance of, like, I want to teach them that lesson of, like, no, we don't always go into these really, but I don't want to stay in a shitty hotel. So, it's a balance because you want to expose them to what's possible.

Right. Because that's, I think that is a challenge. If, like, if you don't know what's possible. Yep. I remember the first time I went to, like, a really nice hotel. I was 15 and I went on a trip and I remember seeing, like, really nice cars for the first time in person. Like, six-figure cars. And I remember looking at them and it was in Boca. I was, like, this is a different world to me. And so, you want to expose them to that, but also not entitle them to that. You know, I love how, you know, Shaq famously said. I was going to say Shaq. I'm rich. You're not rich. Yeah. Right. I love that. Right. You're poor. Yeah. Yeah. It's a balancing act. My wife, she jokes, like, you know, we're going to make sure that they know that.

We, you know, we're not successful and, you know, we're, you know, that we haven't done well financially. And I'm like, okay, do you think they're not going to pick up on clues based on the hotels that we stay at and the, you know, cars that we drive? Like, they're going to know that we're not hurting. Right. Of course, you know, we're not flying private, but, you know, we're good. So I always, I always joke with her about that, but it's, it's a tough, it's a tough, tough balance, man. Let's talk about, you talk about, and I heard you talk at totality about this too, you know, like ending, you said it earlier, you know, empty in the tank. What's, what's your definition of emptying the tank? Because I want to make sure I understand the, you know, the contrast to that of burning yourself the fuck out and emptying your tank.

Like people who work so hard and go so hard so that, yes, you know, like think of a football player or whatever it is. Literally by the end of the game, they've worked so hard that they can't even walk. And as a father now and that type of stuff, again, the balance of leaving it all on the, on the, on the fields. What does that mean to you now that you have your kid compared to what it did before you had your kid? How it started, which was, it was at the end of every day, did I do everything I could to win that day? And that was a combination of the work that I put in. You know, did I, you take care of my body? Did I eat the right things? I just, did I hit all the things I need to hit? If I look back on today, you know, a month from now, two months from now, you know, a year from now, okay, was that genuinely productive today?

Because, you know, it's like zooming out because in the day, like you feel the emotions, you feel how tired you were. But when you can pull yourself out of the day, you get objectively obsessed. Like, Hey, were you productive that day? Both on the dash and off the dash. How that's evolved is making sure that the off the dash is really, not losing sight of what my, my relationship with my wife and my child and being there. And it's hard because you're building the business. You're doing what I'm doing. You're, you know, you have to be all in for it. But, you know, I don't want to look back, you know, 20 years from now and realize like I miss bath time. Right. You know, and I never, you know, put my kid to sleep and put in those time, those hours.

You know, someone told me this. They said, love is spelled T-I-M-E. So I, so I really took that to heart and try to make sure that, that you're putting in the time. It's hard, you know, it's, it's hard, but that's how it's evolved. Yeah. I mean, for me, like I, you know, I fucked up because, you know, I going through there, I think we talked and I've said this before on podcasts and other areas, like, you know, the values going through the values thing. Right. And, you know, after my dad died and, you know, 10 years of me being a weekend dad and, you know, in my head, I was doing it for my family because my values of family and family. And then when I really sat down and thought about it, it wasn't that I was doing it for my family.

I was just really fucking good at what I did. And was my family benefiting in some way? Sure. But would it have benefited more of me being around a lot more? Probably. Right. So that's the tough part sometimes when you're all in and you're like, all right, I'm going to go and I'm doing them. Yeah, I'm doing this for this. But there's an ego to a lot of this entrepreneurial startup stuff. And you'd need that ego to keep you going, quite frankly, because if you didn't have it, there's no fucking way you would dive into this world. So let's let's back up a little bit, though, on, you know, your choice to go into tech. You said you come up from a blue collar family. Right. First of all, what did your family think when you when you like why did you think that tech was like why did you decide to get into tech?

And, you know, kind of what was your family thinking at that point? Like, what do you got out of your mind? Getting a text. I mean, my my answer is it was always money. Yeah, it was always. How did you know? Like, did you do where you're exposed? Because there's a lot of people that say, like, hey, I was sitting next to somebody on an airplane and they showed me, you know, Rolex and I'm in sales and I'm in tech sales. Like, holy shit, what's that? What was the aha moment that tech really resonated with you? Like, holy shit, I can make money in this. Someone told me that if you're going to be in sales because I made, you know, I sold knives in college. I make a commission there. So I'm like, all right, sales is my thing.

That's how I can make money. They said, if you want to make the most money, you go to the industries with the highest margins. So it was either tech or health care. That was what I was looking at the time. And that's how I got into tech. So it was always just money. All right. And your first job, you say you got zero commissions, right? Like absolutely zero in like a year or so. Yeah. So so so my first job actually wasn't in tech. And then I repurposed and I recalibrated. I closed one deal my first year in sales and that one deal clawed back. So I was I never even saw the commission from it. It was it was it was a rough first year. And think about this picture. That's I was I'm the youngest of five boys.

First one from my entire extended family to graduate from college. So I was seen as like the golden child because I went through this adversity, came out the other side, you know, had decent enough grades to get into a, you know, an OK school. And I'm coming out and like there's this expectations of like, OK, he does everything right. He's going to do everything right. He's going to be good. Right. And it's not that other people haven't been successful in my family, but they've gone very different paths. I was the only one that's going like the corporate America path. And I came out feeling like I'm going to take on the world all full of piss and vinegar. And I just fell flat on my face. So I was like broke as hell.

You know, one hundred thousand dollars in debt from college. You know, I'm living in my brother's basement, literally, you know, about to get fired, feeling like a complete failure. It was a brutal time, brutal time. And this was before I was able to connect the dots of my accident. So I'm still trying to figure out why the hell did this all happen to me? Like, I mean, it's like crazy headspace of trying to figure out, like, is this the real world? This sucks. Right. This is horrible. That was my first job out of college. And, you know, I'd have a really tough conversation with myself, you know, to wake the fuck up. And, you know, and I did. And that's when I transitioned into an attack. Well, and what I love about that is, like, you tell the story of how you, you know, you paid for your own training out of your own pocket.

You know what I mean? You were like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm doing this. And what frustrates me right now with reps is that they're waiting for somebody else to train them. They're waiting for training. And there's so much, like, especially now with AI, like, holy smokes. I remember early days of ChatGPT, you know, a couple years back, I was doing this training and, you know, and it was so obvious how powerful this thing was. I was like, oh, my Lord. Right. So I remember doing this big keynote, big training for, you know, a couple, like a thousand reps or so. And we do a Q&A at the end. And one of the reps raised their hand because I was showing all these prompts. And look, you needed a $20 version of ChatGPT to do what I was doing because I was creating GPTs and people, right?

And literally one of the kids, I couldn't believe he even asked this question, you know, he raised his hand. He goes, John, you know, all those prompts that you showed us, like, you need the paid version of ChatGPT to do that. And our company hasn't paid for that for us. And so how do you suggest we, you know, do it otherwise? And usually they say there's no stupid questions, like, fuck wrong. There are stupid fucking questions. And, like, in front of a thousand people, I was like, did you really just ask me that? And he goes, what? I go, it's $20 fucking dollars a month. I'm like, are you kidding me that you can't stop drinking Starbucks once or twice a week and pay for this? I'm like, you literally have the most powerful tool I've ever seen in my life for $20 a month.

And you're asking me that your company. So what was your mentality? You were broke. You were dead. So for you to spend the cash to train yourself, where did that come from? And then what did that do for you? I mean, it was desperation. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that. I was like, oh, this is part of my 10-year plan. It was like my back's against the wall. I have nothing. I don't know what else to do. And then, you know, someone said to me, like, hey, to be the best, you learn from the best. So I'm like, all right, how do I find the best? And it was just like whatever I've done in my career, you know, when I first got into tech sales, it was buying lunch for all the, you know, people that were great, you know, at the job.

You know, then it was like, all right, how do I get more mentors and coaches and, you know, buy just whatever it is. Like, I've always been in that mindset of, okay, knowledge is power. How do I acquire that as fast as humanly possible? And AI is, you know, that was before AI, right? AI is just different now. Now with AI, it's, there's so much information. What do you trust? Because AI loves to be super confident. You know, but it's more just like my mindset was just like, again, I'm going to die. What's the alternative here? Live, be fucking average, be mediocre. You know, I've never believed that I'm better than people, but I've always believed that I'm better than certain situations. And it's, you can be confused.

People can confuse the two. But it's like, I've been in situations that were part of my doing. And I'm like, I'm better than this. Right. And that's what it came down to. It's like, well, how do I get the hell out of this? This is what I have to do. And, you know, then when I looked at, okay, well, and at the time it was a Fortune 500 CEO. That's my, that's my person I'm going to try to model after. Okay. What do they do with their mornings? What do they do to learn? How are they doing it? They don't get more hours than today that I do, but clearly they get more done. Or that is an objective fact. So like, how do I do that? And I was just like, fine, trying to model these people that are just doing the things that I wanted to do.

And many times I overcorrected, but it was always a net positive by doing that. You know, and that mentality's never left me. Now I'm smarter about the overcorrection, right? And the nuance, but it's just like the mindset of like, what the fuck else am I going to do? Yeah. You know, it's funny. That's a, it's a similar mindset for me is where it's like, all right, what are my options here? I ain't going back to get a job. I'll tell you that. You know what I mean? So like for me, you know, burned it to the ground, you know, go to zero. It's like, well, the only option is moving forward. And because otherwise, you know, it's kind of like Shawshank, right? If you get busy living or get busy dying.

Yeah. Right. And I've always thought of that is get busy living, get busy going and just move, right? Just start, start going. And I think that's what paralyzes a lot of people in those scenarios is they, they're just kind of stuck in analysis paralysis or worrying about, you know, what could or couldn't happen when the real answer is just fucking start doing something. Like start moving. Anything. Anything, right? Anything. Yeah. I love it. So, all right. So you got through that Salesforce. Well, Salesforce, there was one, I remember reading, you talked about this, was it like a $15 million deal that was on track and Benioff was involved in the whole thing. And there was something, there was something about some red flag lessons here.

I want to, I want to understand like, cause this, this huge deal, like I've never, I've never worked a $15 million deal. I've never, even though I trained Salesforce, I never even came close to Benioff. So this one was obviously on the radar. What, what'd you learn? What happened in that deal? And what'd you learn from it? What were those red flags that you learned from? So it was a digital transformation, you know, uh, deal with a fortune 500 company. And the lesson that I learned is never let the room get too big for you. Because to set the stage when you're at Salesforce, I mean, Benioff is God, right? And I am maybe seven layers removed, if not more from him on the org chart at this time.

So I have to prep for the call and then prep for that call and prep for the call before the call, before the call, before the call to be able to have a deck for Benioff that he could maybe, or maybe not be ready to speak to in a meeting, right? So everyone's like, I'm on edge. And the good news of that is you get the AT, right? You get the best of the best to make sure, because if Benioff's involved, we're gonna do everything we can for you. Well, the mistake that I made was forgetting that no matter what happens in this deal, I'm the one that owns that account in Salesforce. It was assigned to me. So what happened to me when I was in these meetings with my SVP, EVP, multiple VPs, like levels above, I deflected and deferred to them, thinking that, oh, because this person, this SVP, they're gonna be able to have this like silver bullet way to handle this executive conversation that I, in my right mind, could never fathom.

And when I got in those meetings, I remember leaving that. I'm like, these guys suck, right? But not that they don't suck, but it was more just, I did a terrible job of positioning them and running the deal and being the quarterback. And I just let the moment get too big for me there. And one of the things I remember specifically calling out in this deal, because we had executive alignment, we had the CEO, you know, other execs involved, but the CTO wasn't involved. And I saw that right away. I'm like, if the CTO digs their heels in, this deal doesn't get done this fiscal. And I don't know if I'm going to have this account next year. So I'm on the clock. Yeah. And I remember thinking in this meeting that they're excluding this person from the deal.

I should say something and say like, hey, even if they're not involved every day, we got to keep them in the loop because if this is a political situation, well, just politically, they could just like, okay, dig the heels and force me. And that's exactly what happened. And because I let the moment get too big for me and thinking that, oh, I have my VPs of the VPs, the VPs involved and Benioff's involved, you know, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And that was a brutal lesson for me of just knowing that like the people, I think Steve Jobs said it in a commencement speech. He's like, look, the people that solve the problems are no smarter than you. Right. And that was a massive lesson that I learned there.

I learned it again when I became a CRO. Same thing. Like when you just get around these people, you just realize, shit, whether you're an SDR or you're a Fortune 500 CEO, everyone's fucking winging it. Yep. Right. Now there's levels to what they're winging. Sure. But everybody is winging it. Yep. And as soon as I realized that, I'm like, oh, you know, you know, you're an example of this because I had even had you on a pedestal for me. I'm like, dude, this guy taught me. And then as I start to get around you, I'm like, oh, dude, he's a human being just like me. Right. Like you just continue to reiterate that information and it becomes so empowering because then you just realize there's literally nothing I can't do.

You know, there's trade-offs to it. You have to earn the right to get in that room to then have those unlocked moments. But, you know, that deal was, I'll never forget that deal. You know, we didn't get the big deal there. We closed a good size deal there, but not that type of like life-changing deal. But that lesson, I'll never forget that one. That was a big one for me. Yeah, it's funny, man. The older you get, the more you realize that nobody, everybody's making it up as they go. And it's, to your point, it's a liberating thing. Even this day, I mean, I still get imposter syndrome. You know what I mean? I'm still, there's still times where I'm sitting in a room going, fuck, man, like these people, like their degrees or what they've accomplished in their careers.

But it's hysterical because even the podcast, like I've had some people on my podcast that, you know, just are light years of head, quote unquote, where I am. Right. And I'm like, oh my God, like, who am I to even have this conversation? Like, but literally within five minutes of the conversation, I'm like, oh, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about either. So cool. Let's chat. Right. Yeah. It's, it's, I remember even now that I'm a parent, right. I remember calling my parents. I'm like, hey, do you ever feel like you're not winging it? Does that feeling ever go away? They're like, no, no, no, never. It's like, okay, no. Sweet. Yeah. So, all right. So moving on, like you, and then, you know, you did a couple more things after that.

And then you were a CRO at 33, 34, right? 33. Yeah. And I mean, pretty young age to be a CRO of an organization doing well to kick an ass. And then you decided to, to stop and go off and do consulting. Let me ask you, what was the, did you have, did you ever have the entrepreneurial itch to like, I got to go do this? Or was that just kind of like, what was that inflection point for you? Where you said, look, I've kind of been there, done that with this, even though I'm 33 years old, I'm still really young. And, and not that I've reached the peak of my career, but CRO is pretty damn high on the list of, of, of titles, if you will. So walk me through that kind of CRO to consultant decision. It was a lot of the entrepreneurial itch.

And remember, like it always comes back to death for me. I just want to look back at my deathbed and know that I have as little regrets as humanly possible. And that was one of the ones that I knew that, okay, we don't have any kids right now. Worst case scenario, I get out on my own and I hate it. So I get back in the game as I like to call it, you know, a year or two from now. So I knew I just had to, had to go for it because I just didn't want to look back and just say like, what if, right? Cause I, it's the same reason, it's the same thing that caused me to leave Salesforce when I was performing really well. You know, I left Salesforce not once, but twice, number one. And it was interesting because like the first time I left Salesforce, I went to a competitor based CRM and, and help scale their sales team before they, they, they ended up getting acquired.

I remember getting the offer letter from them and I was thinking like, okay, the people, who do I admire, look up to the most in the, in the world. It's like, it was the Benioffs and the Richard Branson's in the world. And I, and I think about what do they do? Well, they all took massive risks pretty early in their career. So I said, all right, no risk, no reward. So I did that, you know, paid off. And then, you know, when I was back at Salesforce, um, even after a successful run, but I realized I want to round out my skillset. I realized I was playing it safe there again and I'm like, all right, I don't want to play it safe. So, uh, so I just, you'll continue to bet on myself. So same thing going back to when I left being a CRO, um, and decided to go out on my own, you know, it was, Hey, let's, let's go for broke here.

Um, I'm not going to die. Like, I'm not, right. What's the worst that happens? You know, it's not like I don't have, you know, a resume that could help me land a gig. Right. You know, whatever that is. Um, and that's what led to it. You know, you said something right there that, that has shifted my decision criteria. Um, which is exactly that, like, what's the worst case scenario? Like, what's the worst thing that could happen here? And I, and I tell people that, cause when I got fired from Staples, right, when my little $10 million company got bought by Staples, $20 billion and I got fired, you know, I went back to the guy that fired me and I said, Hey, you know, what happened here for my own personal and professional development, you know, could you help me understand here?

And it was like literally my MBA in a box. Like in that hour, I got more insights from a guy who ran a $12 billion part of Staples. And one of the questions I asked him was like, Hey, would you have been open to a conversation like this? You know, while I worked for you and he was like, well, yeah, what do you would, of course I would have. Why, what do you mean? It was like, well, you know, I was kind of told I couldn't talk to you because, you know, and he's like, well, what's the risk? Like, what, what's the risk? I was like, what do you mean? What's the risk is I get fired. You know what I mean? Like there were people relying on me and he goes, John, let me paint this picture for you. He goes, say you go over your CEO's head and you have this conversation with me and I shred you.

And I'm like, you know, I tell your boss and everything else. And it goes bad. He's like, would you have wanted to work for me at that point? And I'm like, well, probably not. He goes, well, then would you have probably made your own decisions on what you were going to do next and get out of here on your own terms? Yeah, probably. He goes, okay, now let me flip it around for you. Say you have this conversation with me and it goes like this. It goes really well. He's like, do you think you and I would add a better relationship over the past year and things would have gone out a little bit better for you? I was like, well, fuck yeah. He's like, I'm going to ask you again. What's the risk? And literally that changed my perspective on how I make decisions because now I look at something and I genuinely ask myself, like, what's the worst case scenario here?

Like, what's the absolute worst case scenario? And if I'm okay with that worst case scenario, I go ahead and do it. If I'm not, I start to look at other options, whatever. And I apply this to a deal that I'm working on, right? Hey, I got this deal. Worst case, I'm going to go over this guy's head. You know what I mean? I got to get to power. I'm going to go, what's the worst case? I lose the deal. And if I'm okay with that, fuck it. I'm going there. If I'm not okay with that, I take a different approach. So do you, does your decision lens now, because we're going to get into synopsis, your new thing right now. But what's your lens for making decisions and how do you evaluate whether you do or don't do certain things?

I mean, it's just risk reward ratio. Just like you said, what's the worst that happens? You know, if I, let's say worst case scenario, it doesn't work. Am I in a financial position to support that? Do I have the runway? Or these are things that I look at. Make sure it's all realistic. Because of course you want to, you want to bank on your things working, right? And you want to have that abundance mindset, but you don't want to be reckless. So that's really how I look at it. And as I've gotten older, I've just gotten better and better at looking at all the variables and factors that go into, well, what makes a successful outcome? What makes an okay outcome? What makes a terrible outcome? And, you know, when you're younger, just, you know, ignorance is not bliss when it comes to these types of questions.

You know, I remember I joined a company and I didn't know enough to ask the right questions around their product. And then you join the company and it's not a strong product. All right. So same thing goes to like big decisions that I'm trying to make with my career and my life and everything just comes down to risk or war ratio. You know, and then I look at, of course, you know, the deathbed. All right. So you do that successful coaching. You and I both know right now coaching is pretty brutal as far as what's going on out there in general, you know, it's because you were doing mostly like coach, like coaching with you weren't doing like training, training like I do. You were doing more individual coaching and that type of stuff.

And let me ask you, how rewarding was that compared to your CRO role? Because one of the reasons you said you left the CRO role is because you said you could only make so much of a difference for so many people and you wanted to broaden that out there. So what was kind of that, that when you, when you did the consulting piece of it, right off on your own scratching the entrepreneurial itch, where did you find joy in that compared to the corporate scenario? I've always loved coaching. That's why sales leadership was the path that I wanted to do versus just stay in IC. So I always loved that, you know, both as a leader and as a coach and I still coach, right? I still have, have the business. It's extremely rewarding helping people break through.

And, you know, I just had a conversation with a client the other day that was in a dark mental space and they had a rough month. And just having that type of conversation, I could tell within 90 seconds, like their whole view just flipped. Right. So that's, that's the drug, right? That's, that's the high. Um, and when you're, when you're not in a corporate environment, you just have a longer leash, right? Because the truth is in order to be a high performance individual, I genuinely believe you can't do that. If you put garbage in your body, you can't do that. If you don't take care of yourself and, you know, as a, as a sales leader, you can't apply a quota to exercise, you know, to your reps.

Right. Um, you know, so that was one of the things, like when I looked at, like, there's just, there's limits of what you can coach on in a corporate environment. So you combine that with like scratching the entrepreneur, which, you know, I felt I was a pretty damn good coach as a sales leader because I always wanted to just give reps what I wanted, which was someone that was like actually hands-on and not a dashboard jockey. So that's how I thought about it when I structured the programs and offering, and then also making sure I wasn't just coaching them on tactics. It was how to think strategically and having the right mindset, you know, to be successful, you know, not just in sales, but at life.

So yeah, that's, that's, that's why, you know, I, I loved it and I still love it. Um, you know, the, the business of coaching is definitely evolving with AI and, you know, I think one of the challenges that you have in the, the consulting space, you know, which I would consider like bucketed coaching into that, into that category, um, is I think a lot of people are using AI as an excuse, um, and a crutch, um, and they're using it to amplify bad habits. Yep. Um, you know, if you're a great rep, AI is going to make you better. If you're a terrible rep, it's going to make you worse. I agree with that. So, you know, I think, I think that's just having a big impact, uh, on everyone. I mean, that's, you know, that's not why I've shifted my attention more towards, you know, a synopsis.

You know, there's other reasons for that, but you know, one of the things that I noticed as the space was evolving was, it was becoming easier and easier for people to quote unquote, like become a coach or get in that space. And then before I know it, you know, it was like, it was like coaching became the new drop shipping. It was like, everyone was doing it to make a quick buck. And I would look at some of these backgrounds and look, I'm not saying they're bad people, right. But when I would look at, you know, just comparing apples to apples, it was, this person is a high performance sales coach and they were fired from the last three SDR jobs. Right. So I'm like, these dots aren't connecting.

Um, you know, but, and, and there's a lot of people just taking advantage of people. Um, so I just, I just didn't want, uh, I never want to be in a position where, uh, people feel where like, I don't have their best interest in mind at all times. And that's one of the challenges that I was starting to see. And I still see in that space is there's just a lot of snake oil. Um, doesn't mean there's not some incredible ones out there, like still massive fan of it. Um, but there's also a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, a lot of bad, bad actors. Yeah. It's like the 22 year old life coach. I always joke at that. It's like, you haven't fucking lived yet. How in the world are you going to coach me on? I mean, maybe fine.

You'll be a coach for a 10 year old kid if you want to be, but, but like, don't you dare at 22 year olds or like a motivational speaker? It's like, please, what have you gone through in your, now you probably at 20 years old could have been a motivational speaker because you went through some shit, but like the average kid who just says, yeah, you know what? I want to be a, I want to be Tony Robbins. Like, give me a break, dude. Like you need some, you need to go through some shit to be able to be motivated. So you have a story to tell, so you can actually coach people on that and some life experience. Don't get me wrong. We all need a shoulder to cry on. We all need somebody to relate to, and that's fine.

And I think we can give that to people, but you know, to pretend like, you know what you're talking about and charge people for it without an outcome in mind is a little bit ridiculous. I mean, it's, and it's a, I always joke, like there's coaches coaching coaches on how to coach, right? Like it's, it's, it's almost like a Ponzi scheme. Yeah. Right for it. So, uh, I mean, it's a, I think it's a, I think it's a noble cause. I think there's a ton of value out of it. Yeah. But you just gotta be really thoughtful about it. You know, if you're going to, if you're going to work with somebody and just someone that's achieved what you're trying to achieve, ideally multiple times over. Um, I know a lot of people that have put themselves on pedestals and look, I'm not saying they're not sharp.

I'm not saying they're not talented. I'm not saying you can't learn from that. Um, you know, but if they've only been successful in one environment, it's like, look, if you're, you know, if you're selling, you know, let's say you have a quota at Anthropic right now, is there really that difficult to get quota? Right. Yeah. If there's a reason why a lot of these GTM roles that are spinning up at these hot companies, like they don't even have quotas. Right. Right. Um, it's because it, but people say it's like, oh, I 200% to quota. It's like, well, where are you stack ranked? Yeah, exactly. Right. So, so what, so now you, and you said something about AI, right? Only amplifying the good or the bad.

And, and that's kind of, it seems like the thesis for synopsis, right? Cause I think you, one of the things you said was your, it's AI is only as good as the data, right? That's behind it. So was, was it the opportunity that you saw, like walk me through that transition now? So you're going coach, you're doing well, you like the coaching, get the, you know, helping people out. You also see it getting a little flooded, but then, because right now is a interesting time to get into startups with funding and right. Cause it's chaos out there. So what made you want to do this? Yeah. So, so at the time business was going well, you know, when I had, uh, you know, the, the rep program, my sales rep accelerated, and then I was here consulting and advising, you know, for, for some businesses, uh, so it was going well.

And, uh, honestly, when I, when I stumbled into a synopsis and now with you, one of the founders, um, candidly, I wasn't looking to get back in the game as I like to call it. Um, I was just talking to a friend and, you know, this person was, you know, picking my brain on saying like, Hey, you were trying to bring something to market. You know, if I'm going to bring on someone to be my partner to, to run, go to market, what am I looking for? And I was, you're talking to them about it, giving them, Hey, here's what to look for, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of that. And they're like, great. You know, do you mind if I, uh, you show you the tech? I'm just a chair. You don't have to give us some feedback on it.

It was the most impressive technology I've ever seen in my life ever. Um, and I remember going home, we had dinner that night. I went to my wife and I said, if this was an attempt to try to recruit me, this was the most brilliant way I've ever seen it because I left that dinner thinking like, this is what, this is one of those deathbed things. Or this is one of those things where I could look back and say like, what if, and I can't not explore this. Um, so that's what I did. I mean, I went through, like you said, there's a lot of noise, a lot of craziness, a lot of AI slop companies spinning up out of nowhere that look great, but aren't legit. So I betted it out. I have close friends, you know, cause we're in the data space and, uh, you know, that work actually at Databricks and I had them look at the technology.

I spoke to their customers and I betted the hell out of this thing. And it really became abundantly clear, like this thing can solve a problem that literally hasn't been solved by anyone before. And we're going after a market that has a complete blue ocean and everyone's trying to leverage AI. Well, Claude themselves, the inventor of the MCP said, if you don't have data infrastructure, you know, there's only 21% accuracy, they said, right? Because data decay is very real. Like we solved that problem. So it was, it was, the stars just aligned for me. And I, and when I took a step back, go back to like our risk reward ratio, right? I still have my business, um, you know, that I'm, that I'm running here, coaching and consulting.

Worst case scenario, I join and, you know, come on as a co-founder and like, you know, it doesn't pan out. Um, you know, best case, you know, we were able to help a lot of businesses. Um, and it's a very, you know, great outcome for everybody. Yeah. But I didn't want to live with the regret. So that's what, you know, maybe you take the leap to like get back in the game to, you know, get back into corporate America as they call it. Um, yeah, so it was, it was, it was a wild process. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I was showing you like, not long after I joined and, and at first I'm like trying to figure out like, how do I even communicate this thing? Um, but I was just like, it's so awesome. And you're like, all right, I'm like, what does it do?

I'm like, let me get back to, but I don't know. You're like, like, let me get back. But you also like, it does everything for everybody. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That means it does nothing for nobody. Yeah, yeah, so, and what's, and it's, it's so wild because with it, with a data infrastructure product or solution, you know, the use cases are really endless. Oh my God, I got to refine this. Yeah. We've come a long way, but it's. The whole ICP getting back to basics, man. Yeah. I had, I literally had to like, what would I tell a client? Like, no one cares about your tech. I mean, I, I mean, I was at Dreamforce quick story here. I'm walking across these booths and I'm like, no one knows what the fuck their product does.

And marketing is just going wild. Um, I'm going to these booths. We're like, we're the ontology agentic or revenue orchestration platform. I'm like, what the fuck does that even mean? Right. And, and then I was realizing like, that's what I was doing six months ago. Yeah. Uh, so it was a, it was a crazy experience. Yeah. Uh, it's a wild ride. So. Love it, man. Well, I, I think you're on, you're on a good run. And, and like you said, like, I think you're in a position now where obviously you've done all right for yourself and you have a couple of, you know, uh, worst case scenario things, but this, this one looks like a fun one. It looks like it's going to be a good ride. So, and you're, and you're almost getting funding for it.

So all the fun stuff is happening for you. So I'm, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm excited to see what the next step is for you. I appreciate it. Now things are eating up quick. I mean, I'm excited about this is not about, you know, uh, synopsis pitch, but, uh, yeah, no, I'm excited about the journey. Awesome. Well, look, uh, tell people where they can find out more information about you, about synopsis, about all the things you're working on right now. Yeah. I mean, uh, Justin J. Johnson, uh, you know, on LinkedIn, you know, social media platforms, um, you know, synopsis it's, you know, get synopsis.ai. Um, you know, that's our website, you know, check us out. Um, you know, people can start month to month, you know, whatever, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I'm always here to help answer questions, you know, slide in my DMS.

Yeah. Love it, man. Well, awesome catching up and doing this on the recording versus, you know, having some drinks in Austin. Hopefully we'll do another golf trip sometime here soon, but it's been, it's been cool catching up, man. Yeah. We got to get it. We got to get a trip scheduled. Yeah. I agree. So appreciate you coming on, man. I really do. It's been a fun conversation. Yeah. Likewise, brother. All right, everybody. Hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I didn't like. I always say at the end, all these podcasts, go out there and make somebody smile today. Cause no matter how bad your day's going or how bad you think it went, if you make somebody smile today, you know, you had a good day in the world needs a lot more of that right now.

So thank you all very much. And I will see you on the other side. Hey, thanks again for listening to the show and for all your support throughout the years. This is one last reminder to check out my training programs at jbarrows.com or leave a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform or G2 if you've already gone through my training or sign up for my newsletter. Any of those will help ensure I can continue to bring you free content and great conversations like the ones you just heard without having to annoy you with sponsors. Again, let's make it happen in 2026 together. Let's make it happen in 2026 together.