Patrick “Pops” Garrett: Whiskey Wisdom, Virtual Tastings, and Human Connections

We're all humans at the end of the day. We all have experiences. If we just think back to the caveman days, right? Get around the fire at the end of the night, they're telling stories about the hunt. Getting together over a drink breaks down so much of the bureaucracy in our world. Hey everyone, welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests who I truly respect and I think make a positive impact on the world around us. And this is a different conversation. I almost got drunk during this one with my good friend now, Pops. That's what he goes by. And he is the chief drink officer over at Drink Curious.

And they do whiskey tastings and events for organizations and individuals, not just whiskey, all over the place, tequila and everything else. And it's a really unique way of getting people together and breaking through out of this virtual world that we're in and helping us reconnect here. I had done one of these virtual whiskey tastings when COVID hit. It was such an interesting experience. It guided you through the whiskeys and what to taste and what the smells were and had some food and everything else. And so when I had that experience, I still remember this day who that client was who offered me that chance. And it was a memorable experience that helped me connect. And so we actually, as we drank whiskey, and he taught me how to sniff it out what to smell for what to taste, how to drink it, how to cleanse your palate.

So you'll learn a little bit yourself on that, but also talked about how it related to sales and how we've lost the human touch. And this is a way of getting it back. And so how to engage online, how to manage an audience remotely. And also his journey is just fantastic. He's been all over the place. There is not a linear curve at all in anything he's ever done. So I think you're going to like this one, but you're probably not going to have any whiskey. But if you do, grab a glass and have some fun. Let's make it happen. Bob's welcome to the Make It Happen Monday podcast, my friend. How are you doing? I'm doing great, JB. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, I got this, you know, I forget who reached out to me about, you know, getting you on here.

And I was like, well, and then all of a sudden started talking whiskey and talking about sampling while we were doing this. I was like, you know what? That's a great angle. Let's do that. It's close to 4th of July. Also, it's close to 4th of July as we're recording this. So it's kind of a slow week anyways. So might as well drink some booze here and have some fun. So thanks for coming on, man. I think it's going to be a fun conversation. Great. No, I'm looking forward to it. And, you know, no one ever remembers an event because of the salad. So that's why we always bring whiskey to the party. That's a fact. Actually, you know what? My boy, James Buckley, who is just an avid whiskey drinker, he's probably going to be super jealous.

I just bought him a watch, as a matter of fact, that was made from old whiskey barrels, just as a kind of a father's day, just hadn't talked to him in a while. So I sent it over to him and he doesn't know I'm having this conversation, but when I send it to him, he's going to be probably pissed that I didn't ask him to join us too. But before we get into the drinking and everything else, or actually you tell me when, when you want to start the drinking, but I would love to just with all these, you know, I'd love to hear people's backstories again, not just the resume stuff, but where you grew up, your parents kind of how you, you know, what influenced you to get to where you are right now. And, you know, looking at your background is definitely an interesting story here.

So I'd love to give the audience some context there. And then let's, let's go away about to talk about business and some whiskey here. Well, I'm born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri. So I've been here a long, long time. And I'm one of four children in my parents' family. My dad was a entrepreneur for years. He ran his own cash register business and, you know, and a couple of partners were doing that. So, you know, he got trained in the old days by NCR and kind of decided to be his own boss. So, you know, in a way, sort of entrepreneurship and small business ownerships in the blood, if you will, not something that I set out to be. But I've been told the way that I look at life and the way I approach challenges and things of that nature, it's very much in my blood.

But I was also the youngest child. So depending on which one of my siblings you talk to, you get a slightly different variation of me. But, you know, I grew up being the type of kid that, you know, was all into having fun, hanging out with my friends, but also, you know, trying to build things, right? Whether it was Legos, erector set, you know, really cool scavenger hunt, you know, challenges for my friends in high schools and things of that nature. I was always kind of the organizer and always kind of the builder. And that kind of continued through. And, you know, I took an interesting job. I was getting ready to graduate from high school and I was approached by a good friend's parents who said, hey, you know, our daughter, as you know, is going to Switzerland for her senior year.

We think you would be a great exchange student. And they were part of a Rotary International. And so they got me to apply to be an exchange student, something quite frankly, JB, that never crossed my radar. You know, I was planning on going to college and become an engineer. Math was kind of my thing, right? And I wound up getting selected, a very grueling process. And when they told me I was accepted to the program, they were like, well, we know we originally were going to send you to South Africa because I didn't have any language skills other than English. And they said, but we've had a change in plans. And how do you feel about going to Japan? And, you know, I'm 18 years old and, you know, all my life before me.

And I said, sure, why not? So a few short months later, I found my way over overseas in a plane to go to Osaka, Japan for a year as an exchange student. And that was sort of the interesting or the start, if you will, to the rest of my life, because it changed everything that I thought I was going to wind up doing. What was the biggest, because I've been to Japan before and I find it an absolutely fascinating culture. My nephew's actually going for a semester abroad in college right now. What was the thing that being 18 from where you are, like, what was, I mean, I'm sure everything was a culture shock for you, but just out of curiosity, what was the thought, what was, what stood out to you that was like, whoa, this is way different than what I'm used to?

You know, growing up in the Midwest, you know, we've got big open spaces. We've got personal freedom in that everybody's driving a car. And when you land in Japan, right, it's crowded. There's a lot of people. It's rare for people to own their own car. So one of the biggest things that I had to deal with was the fact that, quite frankly, I stuck out like a sore thumb. You know, I'm a big guy. I was a big guy in high school. I'd love to be the size I was in high school because I wasn't really that big in hindsight. But I got to Japan and suddenly, you know, here's this foreigner, this gaijin, right, who's standing out. And, you know, they put me back into high school. I graduated high school in the United States, but they put me back into a Japanese high school.

So I had to wear that Prussian military-inspired Japanese school uniform. So imagine, you know, this 5'11 guy standing on a platform with all these other school kids around you, and you had to get really used to really fast being the subject of everyone's attention. They would either be laughing and giggling, you know, you know, the young Japanese school girls, they cover their mouth, they point, they laugh. Little kids are looking at you like you're a strange monster of some sort. So if you were self-conscious, which what 18-year-old boy isn't, right, you had to get over it really quick because everywhere you went, there was a mixture of laughter, of interest, and most of the time it was pure gender and interest.

People were very nice. But once again, your mind wanders, and you wonder what people are thinking. So it kind of prepares you for a world of being able to walk into unforeseen circumstances, strange circumstances, and perform a little bit better than you would have if you hadn't been exposed to that. Love that. Yeah. And I think, did you learn Japanese, or did you learn how to speak the language at all, or did you kind of just try to get by with what you had? Well, when I went over there, I knew nothing. I tried to take some classes in the summer, and it was confusing as can be. And so I landed over there. I was lucky. My first host family out of four, I switched families four times in a year.

My first host family, the father, he was older, so their kids were already out of the house. He was a professor, and he spoke English, had actually taught at a college in the U.S. So he helped kind of ease my feet. But when I got put in that Japanese school, the only class that had English was English class. So I'm sitting there, and I always used to think, how great would it be to go to high school and not have to do homework, not have to study? Well, it's pretty boring. So I sat in the classes just listening and drawing, and I started studying on my own. There was about, I think, two students in the grade there that had lived in the U.S., so they spoke English. But everything else was trial by fire.

And so I started learning. My host families would help me learn. My friends would help me learn. I was able to enroll in some language classes at the YMCA. And then eventually at a business school, I got to take more advanced classes. But by the time I left, I had a pretty good fluency in standard Japanese. And in fact, I fell in love so much with the country that I decided not to go into engineering and actually came back to the U.S. and went to college in Indiana that was one of the leaders undergraduate degree in Japanese studies. So I wound up getting a degree in Japanese studies as a result of spending that year there. Wow. Hey, I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. I want to take a quick minute to share with you what I'm working on these days with my new JB Sales membership.

It includes live monthly training delivered by me on my two signature courses, which are filling the funnel and driving a close that cover all aspects of the sales process. It also includes monthly workshops that I'll be running on specific sales skills and different tech skills like ChatGVT and how to leverage AI throughout the entire sales process. Finally, the membership gives you access to my entire online catalog with every course and every tip I've ever done. And as an exclusive offer to my podcast listeners, if you go to JBarrows.com, click on the individual membership link and use coupon code podcast at checkout, you'll get 25% off. Now let's get back to the conversation. Talk about a shift, right?

Like with one person's suggestion, you go from just writing in the middle of America, doing your thing to now I'm studying Japanese. That's fascinating. It's interesting. And again, who, who was the one who made the suggestion, your friends, parents, because they were going friends. Yeah. My friend, she went, she spent her senior year in Switzerland and her dad was on the rotary board. Okay. And so he's like, I think you'd be a, be a good fit. Yeah. And from there, the course of my future was greatly altered in a good way. Absolutely. So you graduate. So what do you do with that degree? Like, do you go back to Japan or do you become a translate? Like, what do you do with that degree? That's a great question.

Well, when I was in college, I went back another time to Japan. So the first time I was there was between, you know, you know, graduation and college. I went back, they put me back in Japanese high school. That was in Osaka. Then once I got into college, I went to a small liberal arts school in Indiana called Earlham college. And, you know, thousand students at that time when I was there and we were on a trimester system. So by the third term of my freshman year, I was back in Japan on a college program. And this time, uh, on the Northern Island, Hokkaido in the city of Sapporo, which is where the 1972 winter Olympics were held. And that's kind of much more of a Midwestern vibe, right? The streets are actually laid out on grids.

There's cows, there's dairy, uh, different experience, but just as fun. But when I came to my senior year, the options I had before me, uh, one, I had a teaching job through the university back in Japan. I could spend two years teaching if I wanted to. Um, and then I also, um, had, uh, explored the military because when I actually had graduated high school, I'd been given a four-year, um, air force ROTC scholarship. And I had to, uh, turn it down because they wouldn't let me defer it. So when I came back to the U S I got it again, but then when I decided to go to Earlham, they didn't have an ROTC program because it was a Quaker based college. So I revisited my senior year. I was still interested in that, took the air force officer qualifying test, was offered a slot there, um, came home after graduation with two jobs.

Um, but also my post college career of hanging out with my friends who I hadn't been able to hang out with four years. So wound up working in a computer shop. Um, it had always been a hobby of mine and I was able to get a job there repairing computer computers. And then 90 days in, I wound up running the shop. Um, and then 90 days after that, when it was the time I had to make a decision on those two other options, uh, the owner offered me a minority equity to start up one of St. Louis's first web design firms. No way. So being 23 years old at that time, um, I took the entrepreneurial path. Obviously it was hidden in that DNA. Uh, and it finally was brought out. Wow. I mean, if you drew a chart of your path, it's not nearly a straight line.

This is, this is no ping pong up, down sideways rando. So it is probably the, the best, uh, justification for a liberal arts education that you'll ever find. Yeah. And you know, it's funny you bring that up because with all this stuff that's going on with AI right now, it's almost like the liberal art stuff is, is going to come back in vogue because you know, the critical thinking and, and not having this one specific skill, like an engineer or a coder or something like that, that AI is going to be able to do. Um, I'm seeing a lot of, well, who knows, right? The, the, uh, AI leaders are saying, yeah, that's the skill. So maybe they're saying that on purpose, but, um, a lot of people who went for psychology degrees, liberal arts degrees might actually have the upper, upper leg coming up here soon.

Um, so now how'd you get into, so you, so you add that, uh, computer, you bought minority share, then you were in the web developer one and what brought you to whiskey? I mean, have you always loved whiskey? Like when, let me have this, when were you introduced to whiskey? So, I mean, I first tried whiskey when I was in Japan. I mean, so it's funny when you go overseas as part of rotary, one of the things, when you go through all the training, they're like, you know, respect and follow the alcohol rules in the country, right? You know, so if you're not able to leak drink legally, don't drink. Um, what I found out landing in Japan as an eight year old male, um, is that the Rotarians, uh, which in Japan was pretty much all men, right?

Um, when they would bring you to events, alcohol was everywhere. So I always joke and sort of, I learned to drink in Japan because I grew up, believe it or not, you know, I would hang out and have parties in my house and friends' offices with 70, 80 people in high school and none of us drank. We were sort of this oddity. None of us really ever drank. And so when I got to Japan, this was really the first opportunity to do it. And it was being, you know, supported by the adults in the room, right? Saying drink. Now it wasn't irresponsible, anything like that. So I learned to drink there. So I tried whiskey because in Japan, you know, it's sake, it's beer, and it's whiskey, especially whiskey and water.

Didn't like it. I stuck to beer, some wine. Um, but it really wasn't for me. But as I profess or as I progressed in my career, you know, I helped start up that web design company, went through a couple of stints in that. And then, um, I started in a family and I always had this desire to meld my professional career back with my time spent in Japan and Asia. So I wanted to find a job that could eventually take me in my growing family overseas. Uh, I was lucky and I got to join a small company in St. Louis called Outrider, which was, which had recently been purchased by WPP, which was at the time, uh, world's largest ad consortia and miss specifically inside of that company, uh, group ad, which was the world's largest media buying arm.

So we were part of that. And so, but working in St. Louis in this family. So there was lots of opportunities to move up the ranks, if you will, as we grew, uh, maybe get overseas. Um, that got shut down though, because, uh, my second son was born and they both got diagnosed if you believe it or not with a soy allergy. So I kind of put the kibosher living abroad. Um, but joining that company was a great move for me because what happened was that company Outrider specialized in SEO, um, and the brand new field of paid search marketing. So we're thinking, you know, think circa 2005. Um, so very early days. And we had 20 employees when I started and I spent seven years inside of group M creating what became known as group M search, uh, with amazing group of individuals.

And we went from 20 people in St. Louis to about 400 globally. We were the single largest buyer of paid media on behalf of Google and Facebook of our clients. So it was like a, you know, a extended MBA degree, if you will, um, the education, the growing, the opportunities. Um, and so it was while working in that environment, um, that I wound up, um, finding my way into whiskey. And it was all based on the fact that I would go to New York two times a month, lots of entertaining with Google and Yahoo and Facebook, taking us and our clients out. And these were like those epic dinners, right? Those three, four hours dinners with food and, uh, you know, icebreakers and drinking and after afterwards.

So as I got into my thirties, I found myself waking up a little leftover. I wouldn't say hung over just a little leftover. Yeah. And I did the research and found out that me and sugar, we didn't get along. And I grew up in South city, St. Louis. So I was drinking seven and seven, you know, I was a real classic guy back in the day. And I said, I got to get off the sugar. So I said, what am I going to drink? So I tried scotch. Uh, unfortunately at the time I jumped in the wrong end of the scotch pool and I don't even remember the brand, but it was PD. It was smoky. I didn't like it. Someone recommended bourbon. I tried bourbon. I didn't hate it. It was not love at first sip, but I didn't hate it.

So I kind of tried it and tried it. And then finally my wife, uh, for Christmas present that year bought me four bottles and those four bottles kind of cemented the commitment to it. Um, and we went from there. That is awesome. Can I ask you about palates here for a second? Because I've always been, um, I wish my palette was, was better. And I'm wondering if your palate is like a muscle where you can, you know, you can learn, I know, obviously as you age, your palate changes, right? That's why, you know, young, you feel like whiskey tastes like gasoline, but then later on in life, it actually tastes, you know, you can actually start to taste it, but outside of evolving and aging, is there something you can do to improve your palate?

And is it just about paying attention or help me understand that a little bit? Cause I've always been frustrated that I can't taste half the stuff unless it's in a very specific situation, right? Like the first time I tasted wine, I always thought wine was a joke. And then, um, you know, coming from East coast and I took a trip around the country, I stopped at the Mondavi winery and I'm me and my buddy like, yeah, sure. Let's go get drunk on wine. And they did the whole, Hey, taste it. We didn't like it. Then eat some food and taste it after that. And that was literally the first time I recognized my palate, if you will, because I was like, Whoa, okay. I actually tasted what he just was talking about here.

And it was distinctly different after I ate food. Um, but I still have kind of a general palate here. So long-winded question here, but can you work your palate like a muscle effectively and get better at it? Absolutely. I mean, you know, I think it's always good to start with this understanding that taste and the ability to smell and taste it's very subjective and it's very personal. So first and foremost, right? So, you know, anytime we sit down and we do a tasting with folks, we, we make it very clear. What you smell and what I smell don't have to be the same. And often that they're not. Um, and that's not even factoring in how you interpret smell differently, right? Because here's the thing.

A common thing that people say they smell or taste in bourbon is something like marzipan, right? And if you've never smelled or tasted marzipan, you're not going to smell or taste it in, in bourbon, right? Um, so it's rooted in your personal experience and your ability to recall that. So it's very much like a muscle, right? There are some people in the world that are, we call super tasters, right? Who have this super amazing ability to pick out flavors and multi layers and things of that nature. But for most people and myself included, like I said, when I got into bourbon, it wasn't love at first sip. And it had more to do with the fact that to your point and earlier, it tastes like alcohol, right?

It tastes like ethanol. And so you have to work through it. The good news is it's the best homework you'll ever have to do. I mean, practice, uh, makes close to perfect. But what I tell people is like, listen, if you really want to work on your palate, whether it's beef or wine, whether it be for spirits, whether it even just for food is you have to taste things. You have to smell things. So I said, I tell people start in your kitchen, right? If you like to cook, first and foremost, every ingredient you're going to put into your meal, taste independently, taste the spices, smell the spices, right? Taste the spices. What does it remind you of? Does it trigger a memory? Taste something else. Taste how you put them together.

You know, Indian chefs will tell you that you can take a spice and if you use it raw, it tastes like this. If you toast it, it tastes like this. If you grill it, it tastes like why? So you have to build that up. It's like a story in your memory banks, right? So take those all in, assign memories to them. The more you do that, the more recall you're going to have, just like facts, right? So you do that, you taste stuff and you take a moment with, with each taste, right? It's being present, um, and taking those in. Then what happens is you'll start identifying those more easily, right? If you want to really humble yourself, JB, uh, have somebody blindfold you in a safe environment, right? Have a safe word here, um, and have them bring some fruit and hold it under your nose, but don't tell you what it is.

Yeah. Okay. I guarantee if somebody puts a strawberry and strawberry under your nose, you're probably not going to know what it is. Really? Okay. Um, so we are so dependent on our site. So it's just practicing. And then if you really want to get geeky about it, really get into it. Uh, there are sensory kits for a lot of different spirits, but for bourbon, there's a sensor kit you can buy, which is a kit with about 20 to 30 essential oils, which represent, uh, a lot of the, the, uh, chemical compounds that are found in bourbon, right? So these are actual compounds there. And you can take these little white paper test strips and you put it on the paper, hold it up to your nose and you start to nose it.

And then they will give you a book that says this bourbon should have these notes in it. Right? So then you can actually practice against something where it's not as subjective, right? Like this will definitely have vanilla. This will definitely have butter. This will definitely have oak. Right. And you can start pulling out that way. So there's, there's a path, you know, to, to get you there, but it is all rooted in practice and discussion, right? There's nothing better than sitting down with friends and appreciating the bourbon and talking to each other about what you experienced, because you may have something that you can't put your mind, a word to. And by the way, that's, that is an actual physiological, uh, challenge for humans is we often can't put a descriptor to what we're experiencing.

So that's why we, in every case that we do, we provide people with these bourbon flavor wheels, which are common aromas, comma flavors. And we reference those for people, but you can smell things that are not there. And I'll give you a great example. It's a fun story. I would do these tastings at a liquor store locally. I had this gentleman who finally came up to me, had to work up a little culture, a little, a little strength afterwards. He said, Hey pops, I got a question for you. He's like, have you ever smelled or tasted cotton candy in a bourbon? And I looked at him, and I said, I said, honestly, I said, no, I haven't, but I can tell you two things about your work background. And he's like, really?

I said, yes. I said, did you go to circuses a lot as a child? And he goes, I did. I, every year my parents would take it. I look forward to it every year. I said, great. I said, so something about that experience is tied in anecdotally with whiskey, with bourbon. I said, whether your dad had to take a shot of whiskey courage to take you to the circus, right? Or maybe the clowns were nipping a little bit too much in the clown car, right? And you got close to one of them, but there's something there. And he got a big chuckle out of that. And he's like, what's the second thing? I said, well, the other thing I can tell you is that your parents loved you a lot more than mine. I said, cause they took me to the circus once and I found my way back and they never took me.

So, you know, it's very personal. It's all rooted experience. And if you really want to have a trip, sit down and have a glass of bourbon with somebody, a couple of folks from different cultures, right? So once again, different spices, different food prep, different aromas, right? And they're going to experience and the way the whiskey presents to them is going to be a little bit different as well. That's super cool. So that said, I think I need to teach you how to taste and maybe see if we can get your palate real quick. Yes, please. We don't have to get through all these, but I want you to go ahead and take sample one, go ahead and pour it in the little cups that I gave you. All right. Now, as you saw, when we sent you this kit, we send all of our samples, whether we do it in virtually or in person, we send them blind.

We do this double blind, meaning that no one, not even the client who hired us is aware of what the brands are that we put in these kits. And we do that to remove label prejudice, right? And allow connoisseurs a challenging playing field. So they put their taste buds to the test, right? Can they identify what they're drinking? And let me tell you, there's nothing more engaging and really gets people on a solid level of trust when someone is willing to admit that they hated a bourbon and then admit that it's the one they drink every day, right? And they've got to bottle it. And then the newbies, right? They don't have to worry about a bad experience in high school or college or the night before.

They don't have to come in with any sort of apprehension that they're going to not like something which everyone else likes and they focus on it. But let's go ahead and take your cup. And you know, the first thing that we always tell people to do is you want to look at the color. You can tell a lot about a bourbon from the color. And the biggest thing that you need to know is bourbon, 100% of that color is from the time in the barrel. Yep. Sorry. I should have poured it in this. That's right. Right. So there's no artificial color. Scotch, Irish whiskey, if they want to put a little bit of artificial coloring in there. But with bourbon, 100% of that color comes in the barrel. So the darker it is typically reflects longer in the barrel.

Okay. All right. Not always, but typically it will do that. All right. And then as you move it around in your fancy whiskey glass, you're going to see that sometimes at least streaks on the glass. Yep. Like these are often referred to as legs, right? It leaves these nice legs. A friend of mine was down in Mexico doing a tequila tasting and doing a similar exercise. And he goes, Oh, in Mexico, uh, he goes, uh, we call, if you're single, we call those legs. If you're married, we call those tears. Uh, so obviously use the, the proper nomenclature, but what they're representing is the more legs that you see in those thicker, more viscous are the means they're more oils that are present in the alcohol, in the whiskey typically mean just going to be a little bit more smooth, a little bit more viscous on the palate, a little oily, uh, also can reflect this higher alcohol content.

All good things that we typically look for because we want a nice silky rich flavor experience, but then we're going to go ahead and smell it. And when you smell, it's not like a wine tasting, right? The wine tasting will tell you to stick your nose way down and take a big whiff. This is high proof. You can lose your sense of smell and your sense of taste, right? Uh, because here's, here's a good fun fact. You can only taste five things, right? Um, you know, bitter, sweet, umami, those types of things. So all those things you're able to taste when you drink bourbon really come through the interaction of, of what you're smelling, right? So we want to keep your smeller, uh, in good shape. So we're going to do is keep your nose right above the rim of the glass, open your mouth and breathe in at the same time through both.

And then breathe out, try it again. Now that's going to keep your senses safe and also open up and maybe allow you to smell a little bit better, but you're doing a good thing. You're moving that glass around. I'd like to see that. And that's because your different sides of your nose can be dominant and that can change throughout a tasting. So you can start with your right side being kind of clear and sharp, and then it can switch to your left. So moving around, I see people will close their nose a little bit, just moving around, even different distances can affect it. And what you're wanting to do is just like, what am I smelling? Right? So, you know, it's not uncommon to get base notes of vanilla and caramel, right?

In bourbons. Um, maybe a little bit of wood, oakiness that come from the time in the barrel. For this one, what I'm getting is a lot of, um, orchard fruits. So think like, things like peaches, very sweet and light, a fresh peach, maybe some apricots, a little bit of cinnamon in there as well. I was going to, I was about to say cinnamon, definitely the caramel, uh, cinnamon. There is a sweetness. I wouldn't be able to put my finger on the fruit, but. But you know, if you like, if this was summertime and you had a fresh peach in the kitchen, you wouldn't, you grabbed that and smelled it, maybe even cut it and smelled it. And then went back to this, you'd be like, holy crap. Right? Then that's why we pair foods, right?

With bourbon. Cause they can help bring stuff out. Now I love smelling whiskey. It's a lot of fun, but we don't buy it to smell it. We buy it to drink it. So before you dive into this, here's what I always tell people, especially those who are new to high proof spirits. I'm going to have you take a small sip, just the tip of your tongue. Okay. That's where your sweet receptors are. That's going to be the safest place to experience it. First is just take a small sip and let your mouth, um, get adjusted. Okay. Below out exhale. Now, now we're going to take a slightly real quick on that. When I do that, like with wine, sometimes you swish it around, right? Should you just, should you do that? Should you let it sit in your mouth or should you do that?

That's going to be the, that's going to be the next step, right? So this one was just the acclimation sip, right? Cause all too often people come in, they take a big sip and it's like, it's like fire in the hole. Right? So this one is just kind of getting your mouth a little bit ready. It's why like it's sit down tastings. We'll often do a welcome cocktail, right? Just to get people's mouth ready for higher proof alcohol. But the second sip, take a small sip and I want you to, yeah, just gently roll it around your mouth. If you want to pause it in one spot, but just move it around, try to get a good coverage on your mouth. All right. And as you do that, don't focus on the flavors so much. I want you to focus first on where do the flavors really pop up and present themselves.

So the tip of the tongue is where you're going to sweeter notes. Mid palate tends to be a little bit more savory. The back of the tongue and the sides are where you're going to get a little bit more spicy notes. Now, when nosing it, if you have too much alcohol in the nose, there is a trick to blow into the glass. Push off some of that ethanol. And the same thing on your palate. After you've had that first sip, you exhale and close your mouth again. Let little saliva build up. And you get some of those flavors to come through, right? So for me, this presents very sweet tip of the tongue and that cinnamon spice comes through in the back and the sides. Yep. But I almost get like a toffee and pastry note, like a little bit of a doughy bread note on this one.

It's funny how suggestive, like once you say something, you're like, yeah, actually I could, I could taste that. And I'm cool. I'm wondering, can you like to your point earlier, like, can you, based on your experience, right? It's like, if somebody says something, it's like, oh yeah, that, that I recall that flavor. So therefore I'm, I can, I can search for that flavor. Is your brain, is that what your brain is doing? Is it, is your brain getting in the way of your taste buds? Oh, it does all the time. Absolutely. I mean, cause like I said, once again, it's really hard for us humans to put the finger on exactly what it is. Right. And so most people I have found, right. This by no means, this is a research finding, but this is my experience is people who are new to this, right.

Who don't do it regularly. Memories trigger things, right? So someone will smell a glass of bourbon and they're like, oh my God, it smells like a tack room. They grew up around horses. So what they're picking up is leather, right. And oak. Right. So smells of that. And I have other people who will pick up those doughy bread notes, right. Cause they worked in a bakery. Um, I have other people who, you know, worked in a movie theater around a lot of popcorn and they'll, the first thing they'll smell is corn. Right. Um, so your brain can do that. And sometimes it gets in the way of smelling anything else. Um, but the last thing I'll say in this one is you have what you smell, you have what you taste and you have the finish.

And that finish is what you taste and experience after you swallowed the whiskey. Right. How long do the flavors linger? Medium, short, long finish. Uh, and then how do they change? And I, what I tell people is you want a balanced whiskey and a balanced whiskey is a whiskey that may have a lot of meandering curves between the nose, the palate and the finish, but it's all in harmony. Um, and when it's not where it's out of balance and you don't want that. So you look for a whiskey that's, it's got a good, enjoyable journey, uh, that's fits your palate for where you're at in terms of proof and flavor profile. Um, and when you find that, you know, dig in, find out how it's made, what are the grains to use?

What is the story? And then use that information the next time you got an order a drink. Um, and like I said, people who kind of commit to this drink curious lifestyle that we talk about, um, we'll get the skills necessary so that every glass they order will be a step forward. Right. And just improving their life's journey when it comes to good drink. You know what this, so this was interesting. I, I've just been trying to smell if I can pick up a different scent or whatever each time. And you know what I just caught was a, um, a sauna, like a sauna. You know what I mean? When you sit in one of those sweat saunas with the wood and whatever they have, those are cedar usually, right? Yes, I think so.

That's what I'm picking up then. Yeah, no, absolutely. See, well done. See proof, proof of the whole, you know, personal experience. Now, just so you know what this is, I'll let you know what the sample is. Cause when we do our tastings, right, we don't tell them what they're drinking and we give people a chance to guess and engage. And a lot of our clients will gamify it and whatnot and give bottles away. But, uh, what you're drinking here, this is a brand called green river. It's out of Owensboro, Kentucky. It is their weeded bourbon, meaning that this is made out of corn, wheat, and malted barley. So it puts us in the same family category as, uh, makers, Mark, Larcity, even, uh, Pappy Van Winkle that we talked about before the show, uh, is a weeded bourbon, right?

So it's a little sweeter, a little bit lighter in the palate and it's a little over five years old and 90 proof. And, uh, I call this a sessionable bourbon, meaning that you and a couple of buddies could drink this over the course of an evening, no palate fatigue. Um, not going to get too drunk cause it's lower proof. Um, and it's only going to set you back about $34 for the whole bottle. So to that point earlier, if you don't have to spend a lot to drink, well, this is a perfect example. When it tingles the front of the tongue, right? Cause right now, like I took another sip, back of the tongue's good, side of the tongues are good, but the front of the tongue is, is like still tingling. What's that about?

Is that just, is it, is it, is it, I don't want to say shocking my, the, the, the taste buds there. What is it doing there? Why is it kind of feel like it's tingly? So that's probably going to be a little bit of you just getting used to the alcohol content at 90 proof. So I think I may have referred to it just a second ago as a not a high proof, but it's still 45% alcohol by volume. It's not low proof. I happen to have a ton of whiskey scar tissue, I call it. So I have no problem sitting around drinking 140 proof at night, right. And enjoying it without any water added to it. But this is still a lot of alcohol for most people. So it's just getting that. If we went through the whole tasting of four samples by the third one, that would be gone.

You could come back to this first sample. You're going to experience it a little bit different because your palate's been a little bit muted to it because of the alcohol. And that's something that the nice thing about it is the more you do this and you more get used to that, you can have that first drink without those effects because your palate is just adjusted to it. Nice. So let's talk, let's pause for a second on the next one. Um, how did, so did you start this? I actually, I missed that part. Did you start this whiskey tasting and these types of things before or after COVID? So I actually started, um, a bourbon blog called bourbon and banter back in 2011. And that was, um, sort of a, a outgrowth from when I was working in group M search and the media world.

Um, we were big fans of mad, right? So we were going on trips, we were drinking and, um, we were, we were kind of about the different stories. And I think one day, uh, we had just watched an episode where this one character got really inebriated at lunch, came in and may, may have relieved himself in a window with everybody in the office, right? It was just like this criminal scene, right? Just like bad behavior. Um, I always, I refer to mad men as that docudrama about, uh, nostalgia and bad behavior, but, um, you know, we were all fans of the show. We worked in advertising. So it was myself, a guy who worked for me and then our HR guy. And we all were talking about it and we go, you know, we're in advertising, they're in advertising.

They can drink during the day. Why can't we drink during the day? And the HR guy goes, well, you know, technically there's nothing in our bylaws that says you can't do it. He goes, but however, I would suggest you skip over drinking and in the window. Right. So he was kind of like, there's nothing against it. So my, my colleague goes, if you get a bar for your office, I'll buy the first four bottles. So I proceeded to go into my office and 10 minutes later, I sent him a receipt from eBay where I ordered a replica vintage globe bar. No way. Nice. So two days later, it shows up. He brings the bottle and what we call bourbon club was born. And so every day after work, a small group of us would get together in my little office and we drink some bourbon and chat.

Right. Uh, anybody could come as a guest. And then after that, if you wanted to come back, you had to submit an application in the form of a bottle of bourbon. Right. So we were a self filling club. Right. And, and it kind of grew and it went from, you know, starting to five thirties, five 15, five four 30, whenever we had a bad day. Um, and it grew to be, we had, we had chapters in different offices. It became this life of its own. And I started a Facebook group. So all of us in different cities could communicate. And one weekend, uh, a bourbon publication that was fairly new discovered my page. And I went from 30 followers to 600 in a matter of two days. Okay. And this would have been back in around 2009, 2010.

Right. And I was like, Holy crap. And start chatting with people. Uh, bourbon club kept moving along. Um, I left the organization in 2011. And because I couldn't stand to see Groman cry, I left, uh, the bourbon bar behind for the, for the next guy to step up and take charge. And, and I, and I think a point I should say here, um, is this whiskey club that we started the bourbon club, as we call it, this was anybody could join, right. From, I was a managing partner all the way down to entry-level people. We had, you know, women in the group. We had men in the group. We had everyone. We had people in the group who didn't even drink bourbon. They bring something else. Right. So it was also a great vehicle.

And I think this is what, what came into the name bourbon and banter when I created the Facebook page is that's what we called it is this idea that getting together over a drink breaks down so much of the bureaucracy in our world, whether it's a coworker or an employee, whether it's a client, whether it's a prospect, right. I mean, we know it, you know, you're in sales. It's, it's this whole idea of get together over a drink, over a meal, same principles apply. Um, and you build a relationship. So we were doing that in a way that was kind of unique inside of corporate structure. So, um, I left, um, and moved to the next thing, went to a global PR firm and they asked me to get another bar. So we got another bar, right?

So it kept going. So, um, as I moved along, I took my, I mean, in December, 2019, I took my first client side job. I'd worked in agencies, uh, my entire career took my first client side job. Uh, and as you know, three months later, we were all working from home, uh, with COVID and, um, bourbon and banter as the blog, uh, has been, we've been writing that publishing that since 2000 level. It's a, it's a global top 10, uh, whiskey news and review website. I've got a great team that writes and contributes content. Many of those writers been with me for over 10 years. So we kept doing that, but what started happening, uh, uh, probably around the end of Q2 in 2020, I started getting emails through the bourbon and banter website, people saying, Hey, do you do virtual tastings?

Um, now I had done some in-person tasting just as an offshoot as a hobby, right? So my wife has always said, I've never found a hobby that I can't monetize. Um, that's kind of like bourbon and banter did. Um, so I came up with a way to do these, um, and would do them in the evening, right off hours. I would host them for clients. That's like, yeah, long as it's six o'clock or after I can do it. And so we started doing those and they proved to be extremely successful, not just for me, but for my clients. Right. Um, then, um, we got through that tough 2020, we got into the first part of 2021 and the company we worked for was making changes. They were kind enough. They said, Hey, we're restructuring.

We're going to offer you a new role, but we also have to offer you, um, a severance package. Um, so based on the success of what I was doing with the tastings, I decided to, to jump and take severance and use it to kind of fuel a runway, if you will, and launch drink curious. I launched, so I launched drink curious, uh, in April of 2021, I guess it was to do this full time. Um, I had already made the decision years ago with bourbon and banter. I didn't want to make that a full-time job because I didn't want to run a business based on eyeballs, right? Or traffic, you know, too much power in Google's hands. That's the world I came from in the media world. Right. I knew with one algorithmic change, your business could be dead.

And, and I've seen it happen with other whiskey publications since then, but with drink curious, it was something new. And so it was an unexpected route. So we did that. And, you know, people always say, how did you get there? So you got the long version. And the short version is I worked in advertising. It drove me to drink and I finally figured out how to monetize, uh, which is the short version. Right. Um, and so we kept doing virtual tastings. And then as COVID went into the rear view, um, clients start saying, Hey, can you come do something in person? Um, so, you know, 80% of our business is virtual. 20% of it is out traveling across the country, uh, doing in-person events. Um, and you know, kind of, it's really fun because a lot of clients, we did these big series during COVID and now we're doing in-person events and it's, you actually show up and there's people waiting for me to show up because they've got to know me virtually.

And now they're like, they hang out in person. Uh, that's incredibly rewarding. And it goes back once again, to that whole thing about building relationships, being together over a common shared interest. Um, and just kind of building that rapport, uh, and putting the whole sales process aside momentarily for that to happen, which, um, in my experience, it doesn't happen nearly enough anymore. I was going to ask you, let's drive one more and then I got another question for you. Which one should we try two, three or four? Um, since we'll try one more, let's go ahead and go to number three, three. Okay. Now question, should I rinse this glass out? Does it matter? Should I drink a glass of water to cleanse my palate?

Like if, if you have water there, rinse and drink, drink the rinse water and that'll accomplish both at once. Um, you know, what I like to tell people is a lot of time when we do virtual, they don't maybe not have the water or the extra glasses. So, uh, you can still have a good time without doing that, but if you really want to get particular, what you just did is perfect. Okay. Perfect. And if we were doing a seated tasting, you'd have four distinct classes. Okay. Um, but once again, not a perfect world as I'm poor, there's I'm, you know, I've been talking to your sales reps, right? I mean, I, I feel fortunate that I'm a 48 year old man. I, you know, I grew up going face to face sales, sitting in the bullpen, basically, you know, learning body language, understanding how to interact with people.

And now we have this whole generation of that have grown up like this. And so what I'm seeing right now is a lot of reps just have a very hard time connecting or relating to people, uh, and, and being normal. Like, and I'm just going to say that as a blanket statement, being just like a normal human being, having a conversation and not having to feel like they have to go through a script. Do you feel like, what do you think the biggest factor of this is of this disconnect, if you will, towards the human experience? Is it, is it social? Is it the virtual world? And, and how do we, in, in, in addition to doing things like we're doing here in person, how do we educate the younger pop, you know, the younger conversations on the, the beauty of the human connection?

Cause I feel like it's being lost. No, I, yes to all that. Um, and so here's, here's my take on it. I think we had, we had a perfect storm, right? So you've got the rise of digital media. You know, I have three kids, 23 down to 18, right? So they are products of that world. Um, and you know, I love my children dearly. They're all great individuals, but I see the effect on it. Despite my wife and I having policies, you're right. You know, nobody was allowed to have a device in the room at night, right? All phones were downstairs, right? They didn't have computers into the room until they were, you know, halfway through high school. Right? So we did a pretty good approach in that. But the reality is that when you have the world in your hand, it de-incentivizes you to go out and experience the world.

Um, especially, um, maybe not for the big things, right? Cause there's always going to be the exception to the rule. But when you can hang out with your friends and have a great immersive experience without having to leave the house, it makes it a lot harder to leave the house. Then you've got COVID that came in and you literally couldn't leave your house. People were scared, right? Uncertained. Um, and you couldn't not only leave your house to go to school, you couldn't leave your house to be with your friends. You couldn't leave your house with your parents to do whatever. Um, so it compounded that if you will, and it continued to set us back. Um, and then for those of us who grew up in a world before that, uh, it impacted us because we were social beings, right?

We thrive for that. Right. Um, and we ran out of stories, right? We're social beings, social, when you get together with someone, everything's rooted in stories, right? And shared experiences. We ran out of those, right? And suddenly it's like, what'd you do last week? Oh, Netflix, you know, cooked, watch the cooking. There was none of that that they, to, to share. So when we launched during curious, it was very early on. We, we sort of understood that this was happening. So the fact that we could bring an experience, right? You know, we, we don't just get on and sample whiskeys. We educate, we talk, we share stories, we get people involved. Um, and people responded to it. Like quite frankly, I never really imagined that they would.

Right. Um, and that obviously then passed the benefit up, up the chain to the people who were hosting it. Right. Um, but it gave a jumping start for stories, for shared experiences, for understanding. Now we're coming out of COVID. It's still very much a need. The, the, the, the younger kids, you know, are more of an experienced economy. So this plays into that. Um, but that experienced economy often it doesn't tie back to this type of stuff like sales and getting in a room with people. So for me, you know, I think that's the biggest challenge is, um, they want to have an experience, but they don't want to get out of that comfort zone. And so with my own children, it's constantly pushing them to get out of their comfort zone to go out there.

Um, my daughter, when I tell stories, you know, as all dads do, uh, they've called my stories, dad lore. Right. So it's always about dad lore. And, and she often says, I wish I had some of my own lore. And, um, I emphasize it. Well, you will build or you're still young, but you got to get out there. Right. And you have to put yourself out there. So whether you, you're coming into the business world and you're uncomfortable about networking, you have to go out there, have those experiences, remember everybody's there for the same reason you are. No one's there to be ignored. Nope. Right. It's those things we have to teach other. So, um, I think this concept of getting together over shared experience, whether it's a drink with us, a meal with someone else, um, or the training wheel events, if you will, to get people comfortable with that, re-engage, re-exposed and say, you know what, that's really cool.

And Hey, maybe they'll find a hobby as well, um, which only further, but everyone will tell you, you know, bottles weren't meant to be drank alone. Meals weren't to be meant to be eaten alone. Um, and so, you know, use those excuses because people like those things, um, or, you know, a craft project or whatever it may be. Um, and it just really, I think these types of things can help people who are uncertain, um, reach across that aisle and pull them into the conversation, which then will hopefully get them in that repetitive mode, which will overcome some of the malaise and the resistance that you and I both see is becoming more common. Yeah. And I love it. And I, even you had mentioned something where you had that, you know, at, at the bourbon club, um, you know, you had the executives all the way down to the brand new kid, you know, who just, just showed up and they're all sharing an equal experience.

It's, it's not, Oh, that's the boss and I'm the employee. It's like, we're all pallet trying to figure this out. We're all giving our opinions on what we're smelling here. So it kind of equals a playing field a little bit and, and takes away a lot of that imposter syndrome potentially that, that people have when they show up to events and don't know who to talk to or, or how to engage with people, which is beautiful. Yeah. We're, we're all, we're all humans at the end of the day. We all have experiences. And, you know, if we just think back to the caveman days, right, get around the fire at the end of the night, they're telling stories about the hunt, right. Or the gathering or whatever we, we, we are still those fundamentally those same deeds.

Right. And, you know, having been in sales long, you know, I'm, you know, you've heard all the time, you know, I met this guy and he had the best stories and somebody said, I bet you he was a salesperson. Right. And they're like, yes. And I'm like, they're not the only people with great stories. We just got to get people comfortable with sharing them and having this. So, as you said, the things that break down those barriers, um, those are the things that are going to allow that to happen. And if we, you know, if I can help in some small way, I'm all for that. I love it. So let's, let's test those and do the same thing here. Smell it like it was. Yeah, just do it. I'm gonna let you go at your own pace here.

You know, one of the things that I know is as soon as I tell you, I smell something, you're going to smell it. So I want you to kind of experience it on your own. So this one definitely, it, it doesn't smell as high proof. And maybe that's because the first one was, was the first one, but it definitely doesn't have the sting, if you will, if I'm smelling it a lot more subtle. I mean, I, I keep smelling the syrup and, but those are, those are kind of common. I think. Now, do you pick up, for me, there's something fundamentally different on the nose of this one. And the best way that I can explain it to you is while there's still some caramel there, um, and vanilla, there's like an herbal note, a little bit of grassiness, a little bit of herbaceousness to the nose that wasn't present on the other one.

I mean, it's subtle again, it's definitely getting, if you don't smell, like if you were cooking dinner tonight and you had some cilantro and some parsley and you rubbed your hand on it and then smelled your hand, it would be a little vaguely reminiscent of it. Right. That herbal note. Go and taste it whenever you're ready. So you got some nice sweetness on the tip of the tongue. Right. Reminds you of that bourbon you had, some of the vanilla caramel. Right. Then as it traverses and kind of goes away, might get a little bit of citrus in there. Okay. Might get a little bit of fruit, light fruit notes. Once again, a little more of those tropical fruits and maybe a little bit of like a resin, like a pine resin a little bit.

Right. Um, not that I go around eating pine resin, but we've all had it on our hands at one point and vertically put in our mouth or smelled it. Right. I felt more, lots of spice. The pine was a little bit more prevalent in the first one for some reason. Okay. Cause it almost is like that cedar, that, that cedar, um, you know, sitting in the hot, the sauna, but also with notes of pine. This one, I definitely smelled this. Like I was going to say lemon first, but I was trying to search for it. Excellent. Um, and there's just a general spiciness to this, right? Like really crisp spice. Yep. So, and that's, so what you're, that spiciness and it's very crisp, that would be a rye spice, right? Okay.

Cause what you're drinking is this is actually a rye whiskey and not a bourbon. Okay. Um, so it's going to have that, you know, it's got to be at least 51% rye in the mash bill versus bourbon's 51% corn. So you're going to have a lot more of that grassy herbal note from the rye, a lot more of that spiciness, but a crisp spiciness from that as well. And this one, believe it or not, is actually 101 proof. Yeah. That's interesting. Cause I thought like the, again, I think it's cause the first time I smelled it, it was the first time I was smelling and anyhow, it's going zero to 60 basically. No, absolutely. And the thing is, um, a lot of people will think something is higher proof because of the spiciness and it may not be.

So there's a lot of things that can affect the spice from the yeast used to the grains used to the water source, the barrel can impact it. So there's not one universal thing that says this is because of this. Um, but you learn the nuances, right? Um, this, this one, this one lasts a lot longer. This one stays, finishes longer. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Kind of light cinnamon, citrus, warming, the higher proof. There's a thing actually, if you ever drink a whiskey and you get a little burning right here and it kind of pulses on your chest, like the, the arc reactor and Ironman, we actually call that a Kentucky hug. That's when the whiskey's hugging you back. Um, so very, very common term, but you're drinking here.

Um, this is wild Turkey rye one Oh one. Oh wow. Really? Um, so wild Turkey to me is the most underrated distillery in the country. Um, but a lot of people think, you know, it's for bikers, badasses and old men, right? Because that's who was drinking wild Turkey in the eighties because eighties seventies into the eighties saw a real big drop in bourbon in whiskey, right? American whiskey. Uh, it was unpopular. There was a glut of it. So brands like wild Turkey, uh, had to market to people who would drink it. Right? So bikers, badasses, old men is the joke. Um, but the three generations of master distillers there, um, do fabulous work, uh, whether it's bourbon, whether it's rye. And what I like about the rye, I mean, this is a $22 bottle, right?

Uh, whether it's this or the bourbon, which is like $20. Um, you can't go wrong with it because you can drink it neat. You can drink it on the rocks. You can put it in a cocktail. You can let your neighbor put it in their diet Coke without being offended. And in a pinch, if you have to, you can decrease your engine because it's only $20, right? So it's really a utility player and it, it deservedly, you know, should be in the utility box in your truck, right? Or your trunk. Uh, because you can use it for everything. I even had a guy, he didn't do it with this, but he was in a snowstorm a couple of years ago and he sent me a photo. He ran out of windshield wiper fluid. He pulled over to a store convenience store.

They didn't have any windshield wiper fluid. So he bought a bottle of old Forrester 80 proof bourbon and he's the picture of him drinking it while pouring it into his windshield wiper fluid because it melted the ice and wouldn't freeze. Nice. So, uh, I applaud the ingenuity, right? And talk about a great story that he's probably, I've, I've used it in, you know, over and over again. I'm sure he's still using it as well. Uh, but that's just gives you a little taste of what these virtual tastings are like. Um, they're a lot of fun because you get people engaged, you tell the stories, you have people joking. Um, it's, it's a very good time that breaks down a lot of those communication walls we were just talking about.

I mean, actually just from a, an engagement standpoint, right? So, because I think that I'm going to make the relation that, you know, relate this to sales in the sense that say some rep has, you know, six, seven people on a zoom session like this, right? And, and they're presenting and whatever. And there's always, you know, the loud mouth on the other end, who's the talker and is willing to, you know, break in and say anything. And then there's the people who are not, what are some of the things you do, um, to engage everybody and, and also put just tactically in a lot of ways, you know, when somebody is taking over the conversation, are there ways that you can respectfully kind of keep them at bay while engaging with other people?

So just from a pure facilitation standpoint, what are some of the things that you do to make sure that everybody's involved? The first thing is we have a very, um, structured program that we do. So if we think about the typical virtual engagement, um, a client will typically do 20, 30 minutes up front. They'll do their sales piece, their demo or whatever it is up front. Um, that way people can kick back if you will, and engage in the virtual tasting and kind of not have to worry about that message anymore. Um, so we use a combination of things. So, um, you know, not everybody likes a full beard like I have, so they don't want to stare at just my face the whole time. So we will actually, uh, we have visuals that pop in.

We use streaming software. Uh, so we bring visuals up to the screen. So we're engaging, but we're doing education, tasting, education, tasting, and we're stopping for questions. So we're very structured. So very rarely do we find ourselves in a situation where people are ad hoc jumping in the conversation, you know, we're pausing. So we'll go through a little bit of education, right? Let's say the first 10 minutes and we'll say, okay, so any questions about what we just covered, people ask questions. We know that we can answer two to three dependent on what they are without losing track. We'll tell people to drop stuff in the chat. So when we're done, we'll say, okay, great. If you have another question I didn't get to you, please put it in the chat.

We'll come back. We're also going to stick around at the end. Then we're going to unveil the whiskey, right? We're going to, or we're going to actually, when we're tasting the whiskey portion were before I tell my thoughts on anything, we're going to get the crowd going. We're going to remind them to come off to get on camera, not to be shy. If they are shy, drop it in chat, right? What do you smell? What do you taste? Right? There are no wrong answers. So we kind of try to make it a safe place. Uh, and then we've also worked with our clients, right? So that if no one chimes in, they'll chime in. So we've preemptively thought this through. We went, we rinse and repeat that general process for three or four samples, whatever we're doing.

Uh, at the end, we opened the floor for questions. People want to go a little bit deeper. We also do a little bit of a, uh, a takeaway gift item to everybody as well. Um, share my personal email information. If they want to reach out with questions, continue the conversation. Um, and that works extremely well. Um, we get good engagement. Um, we get good questions, get good knowledge. Um, but I think the bigger thing for me is just everybody's struggling today with getting people to register, getting them to show up. So, you know, what we know from our client feedback, um, clients say they're getting about 25% increase in registrations. Um, they're getting about a 15 to 20% lift in actual show ups.

Um, and then ROI, we've gotten some ROI numbers that are massive, but the bottom line is that it's driving that relationship value, which is what they want. And they can't be there in person. Um, and then as a result, 85% book more tastings, right? So we become sort of that staple there. So, you know, we get people engaged, they give great feedback to the clients. And it's one of the most enjoyable things, even if they've been to other tastings. And so it's just about making it where they're a part of it. They're getting educated. They're getting a fun product as well to try. Um, and then they get to go now they've got a story and now they're going out and telling the story of like, man, I've sat through this event.

Just like you said, you know, when we were doing the prep, you had been sent a kit from someone. You're telling that story, right? How many times have you talked to people about that? Um, that's very critical. Um, and every time they tell that story, it's giving value back to the person who hosted it. Nice. It's actually, it's funny because, uh, the, the group that I had, so I'd done this training, um, and you know, as a thank you, the client was doing one of these virtual whiskey tastings during, uh, COVID and they said, Hey, you know, do you want to, do you want to be a part of it? You know, our customer is going to be there, but would you want to? And I was like, absolutely. I guess it was a wine and then a whiskey.

And I was like, and I asked, well, what kind of whiskey is it? That's when they said Pappy. And I was like, okay, I'm going to do that. Um, and list track. I still remember them to this day, even though it was about four or five years ago. And that memory, if you will, to your point, telling that story, um, recalls the client recalls almost everything that I did with them and the training that I did. Like, even though I wasn't training while I was drinking the whiskey, it reminded me of, of the relationship of the reps in the room of everybody. And so it was, it was definitely a memory that is, that would have been far different than, you know, just any old, whatever, get together. Let's talk about, you know, go through a presentation.

So it's, I think the experience piece of this right now is so critical. I've, uh, there's a, there's a group that I use now. It's, I think it's called a virgin, uh, virgin, uh, experiences or something like that, which is basically, instead of giving somebody a bottle of this or whatever it is, it's a gift card that they can exchange for an experience, whether it's driving a Ferrari or, you know, learning how to fly or whatever it might be. And every time I give those, they come, you know, when they cash them in and they go use that experience, the feedback is always, dude, that was incredible. I've never driven a Lamborghini before. I've, you know, I just always wanted to learn how to fly, never had the chance to.

And I think that's what we, a lot of people discount a little bit, I think is, is the experience versus the value they're trying to bring to the client or the perfect thing to say or how they develop that reports. Like people remember experiences and stories. They don't remember facts and figures and details. They remember experiences and stories. And so I think this is one of those perfect things that ties it all together. So this has been, yeah. And I was just going to say, I just build on there real quick, if you don't mind, I was watching, listening to one of the podcasts. You're talking about AI, right? And how this is going to affect things. And AI is really good at those tactical elements, right?

So servicing the information, no longer having to get to the salesperson to get the information, right? They can get all that information. But AI is not going to sit down and have a drink with you, right? So AI is not going to take you to dinner. So these are those types of things that are critical. I think that are really going to be important because everything is relationship-based and especially for complex sales. You know, I mean, you've got to have somebody stewarding you through somebody else can source the information and whatnot. But, you know, when you factor in that, if salespeople start using more AI, and then if we start using more AI in our lives, right? And the two start talking to each other, you wake up one day and you just bought a house and you didn't expect it, right?

But it's going to be a lot better if you've been talking to the person, whether it's a drink or a dinner or an experience. That brings that, keeps that human element in it, which we're not going to replicate in any meaningful way, not in my lifetime. So I think that's very important. And, you know, I joked at the beginning about, you know, people always say, why whiskey? And I said, because no one remembers your event because of the salad, right? They're not going to talk about, they had the best iceberg lettuce I've ever seen at that dinner I went to. It's not going to happen. This is going to remind this. And, you know, I call myself the chief drinking officer. And because I think every company needs one, even if it's only fractional to kind of think about how to re-restore some of this humanity back to the processes.

And if you can learn how to drink better as part of that process, not a bad day, not a bad day in the office, as they say. Not a bad day at all. And I think we all need to take a note and slow down a little bit, you know, and as they say, smell the roses, right? Or smell the whiskey. There you go. Smell the four roses. How's that? Smell the four roses. Absolutely. Awesome, Pops. Well, where can people find out more information about you? Because there's a lot of leaders who listen to this, and I think this is a really good and really effective way of connecting with people. So if somebody was looking to do this for their teams or be a part of this, where can they find out more information? Sure.

So first place you can start is our website, which is drinkcurious.com. Lots of information there you can dive into. You can also find us on LinkedIn under drinkcurious, Instagram at drinkcurious. And then if you want a little bit of a peek behind the scenes and get to know me a little bit more, you can find me on Instagram at chief.drinking.officer. Nice. And I'd love to have you connect and just reach out. We'll be glad to share with us what we do, how we do it, and how we can make it happen for you guys as well. Love it. And real quick, before I let you go, I need to know what number two and number four are, just so as I drink them, I know which ones they are. All right. Number two is going to be a bourbon out of Missouri called Ben Holiday.

It's a bottled and bond bourbon, 100 proof, six years old. Okay. And then the fourth one, speaking of Four Roses, is Four Roses Single Barrel. Okay. One of my perennial favorites. There we go. And that one, how old's that one? That one is going to be somewhere between seven and nine. They don't actually put the age on the bottle. Okay, cool. Awesome. Well, Pops, thanks again for joining me, man. This is definitely a memorable podcast, uh, outside of the conversation. Uh, this is one I won't forget. So thanks for calling on, man. I really appreciate it. I appreciate it, JB. It's been a pleasure. Absolutely. And everybody, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. I know you didn't get to drink the whiskey along with me, but hopefully you enjoyed it and, uh, learned a little bit about how to taste it yourself.

So maybe go out and buy a bottle, one of these bottles. But, uh, like I always say at all the, at the end of all these podcasts, look, go out and make somebody smile today. Cause no matter how bad your day is going or you bet, or how bad you think it went, you make somebody smile today. You know, you had a good day and the world needs a lot more of that right now. So thank you all very much. And I will see you on the other side. Hey everyone. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did with your support and our incredible guests. We're one of the top sales podcasts out there right now. And I can't thank you enough now to keep the momentum going. It would mean the world to me if you could go and leave a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform and share some of your favorite episodes with your network.

Also, I am super excited to be launching my new newsletter where I'll be sharing everything I know and everything I'm learning along the way while I'm out there selling every day, just like you go to jbarrows.com slash newsletter to sign up today. Let's all level up and make this happen together. I'll see you next time.