Rhonda Petit: The Link Between Authenticity and Success

Hey everyone, welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests who I truly respect and I think make a positive impact on the world around us. And today's conversation is with Rhonda Petit. Now, Rhonda is a sales coach, performance coach with 3x5 Coaching and has been in sales her entire life and also written a book called The Spirit of Selling, which I'm a huge fan of. And in this conversation, we go in a lot of different directions, but all revolving around sales and our passion for it and what it takes to be successful. And we start with her background. She's got a really interesting background with her parents who were a cop and a nurse and live in that life.

And then they just got introduced and changed everything. They changed their mindset. They started selling for Amway and really took their lives and their mentality to a whole different level. And so at 12 years old, Rhonda saw this and it really connected with her and it sent her on her journey to sales. And so we go through everything. She's got some really cool components of what she talks about as far as belief systems and talking about imposter syndromes and knowing your why and really trying to remove those limiting beliefs. Some of the more interesting components where we talked about the act as if, right? To get to act as if to get to that next level of your career. But the difference between that and fake it till you make it.

And then finished up with the three emotional composites that govern sales success. So this was a very sales oriented conversation about what it takes to be successful in sales and be fulfilled in your lifetime. And I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Let's make it happen. What's happening? Make it happen. Family. Big shout out to our partners today. Gong, Vidyard and Chili Piper. Gong's data is more than valuable. It's cornerstone in any organization looking to collect the data that's going to tell them where they can improve and where they need to spend their time making changes. Vidyard makes it easy for people to use videos anywhere. No matter whether you're sending videos in email or on social media, posting them somewhere or sending them in a DM, Vidyard has got you covered.

Our friends at Chili Piper are so much fun to be around. They make it easy for people to get on your calendar. And every sales rep has got to have this function locked in. It's one of the most important things we can do as a seller. How can I get you on my calendar easily? Chili Piper can make that happen for you. Be sure that you're checking out all these great tools. And now let's pass it over to John to find out who's joining him today. See you soon, everybody. Rhonda, welcome to the Make It Happen Monday podcast. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. Excited to be here. Thank you, John. Yeah, I think this is going to be a fun conversation. I was doing some prep for this one and it seems like you and I share a lot of the same philosophies around sales.

So, Rhonda, usually I ask my guests to kind of give the background, but if you don't mind, I'm going to actually ask very specifically about some of the things that I read about your background because I always love to know where people, when they get into sales, kind of how they got into sales, like where that entrepreneurial spirit came from. And you have a really interesting story about your parents and how they were the typical nine to five, you know, police officer nurse, and then one day just woke up, it seems, and decided to change their lives. And it's a really interesting story. So, if you could just explain that for me. And then if there's any insights you could give about what that trigger was for your parents to wake up that day and say, no, I want something different, I'd love to hear that.

So, do you mind giving the audience a little bit of background on that one? Sure, sure. Yeah, so like you said, my dad was a cop and my mom was a nurse. And, you know, up until I was about 12, you know, dad would work during the day and mom would do the nursing thing at night. And by the time I was 12, I was babysitting and kind of helping with the other kids. I was the oldest of four. And my mom and dad, my dad especially, I think, always believed that he had unbelievable faith. And he wanted to provide for the family, you know, to have these experiences. And so, the story that he told me was that he was at the bank and he went to the bank often to refinance houses and, you know, do things to get my braces or, you know, fill in the blank, whatever we needed.

And I guess the banker had been approached by a guy that was talking to him about Amway. And Dick Bean was the name of the banker. And he says, Bernie, you're in here all the time. Why don't you go talk to this guy? And, you know, the power of referral, right? So, he, you know, he met this guy named Jack Maricini and, you know, Jack told, you know, sold him, I guess, on the concept, had invited him to a meeting, drew the circles. And then my dad said, well, I guess my dad and mom both said, yeah, let's do this because they kind of had it. I think people get to that point in life where, you know, you decide that it's no longer acceptable to live this way. And then when you see an opportunity placed in front of you and you know it's possible, then you jump.

I mean, I, you know, I've done that many times in my life. When I met my husband, same thing, you know. But you see something that's possible, you know, in your heart you want it. And so, you jump. And so, they did. And they started doing Amway meetings and people would come to the house and they're drawing circles and there's lipstick on the mirrors and there's vision boards going up. And it was like literally transitioning from like a poverty mindset home into the wealth mindset home. And that's, I think, where the entrepreneurial spirit of me came in because I saw them take their, you know, a business and started on multiple sources of income after that thinking differently. The whole house was filled with all the books, you know.

We used to get Success Magazine. They'd be in the bathroom and that's where I read like William Clement Stone and Napoleon Hill and all that kind of stuff. And just the strangest secrets playing on the record player. And so, your mind is now starting to expand. And, you know, having that contrast, which is how we all create things, I decided at that point that that's, I wanted that entrepreneurial free enterprise spirit and I wanted to do something with it. And I think that's what drove me, even when I went to college, I wanted to keep in the business realm because I just love that free enterprise, you know, brings the service to market kind of unique thing. Yeah, but you also ended up getting a degree in chemistry, which is about as opposite as it gets from business if you just look at it in isolation.

So, what drove you to chemistry? Well, I was always good at, I was, well, my father's a detective. And I still, to this day, when people tell me what my secret sauce is, I'm always asking questions. And I think that's why I've excelled in sales because I'm like my dad, the investigators in me. Okay. But science, I always loved asking why things worked and science and that was natural in math. So, chemistry was just one of those things where I thought, well, that's kind of what my strength is. I might as well go down that road. And they, in fact, my mom and dad had to take me out of my, I was waitressing, making a lot of money. Back then in the 80s, I made like $10,000 cash in my pocket every single year working at this supper club, right?

And I was loving it because I was able to do whatever I wanted. I didn't have to worry about mom and dad. And I didn't even want to go to college, but they dragged me. You know, they said, look, just, you're too smart. You know, we want to, you know, we want you to apply this. And so they took me to the school and they had a major that was called industrial chemistry and management. So it was part chemistry and business. And that's what hooked me. And then I went in and got that, but it ties into full circle. What today I'm all about the mindset and stuff, because that theology and the science, really same thing. It's, it's all about studying energy. Yeah. It's funny. My, my parents, I, I, I didn't realize this, but I had the entrepreneurial spirit built into me because of my parents and how I grew up and how they worked out of the house and that type of stuff.

But also my mom was an artist. She taught art. She got a master's in art. My dad is a, uh, or was electrical engineer. And so I have the science and the art in me. I see the art behind you. Yeah. And a unique, uh, unique combination I think is, is helpful. You, you mentioned something about, you know, curiosity, if you will, um, and how your superpower, one of your superpowers is asking a lot of questions, being very curious. I asked this to some people and, and I'm still searching for a little bit of the answer, but I would love your perspective on this about curiosity. And is, are you born naturally curious or can you develop a curiosity? Like I, yeah. Are you born naturally curious? Um, and can, if you're not, can you, and how do you develop curiosity, genuine curiosity, not just asking questions?

Cause I think a lot of people ask questions thinking that they're curious, but they're, but they're, they're thinking of the next question to ask before the answer is finished. So two, two part question. One is, are you born naturally curious or not? And two is, if you're not, how do you develop it in a real way? I believe we're all born curious, um, in the sense that when we're children, we learn so much in those first six years because we're so curious and we're fascinating. We're doing a lot of observation. And I think that's the key, a lot of observation and fascination, right? So, you know, um, all children, like, you know, you're a baby and you're looking at these big giants walking around and say, I want to get over there.

Well, how are they doing that? And you're willing to like pull yourself up onto the table and take a stroll, fall, bust your head, do whatever. You don't care, but you're just going to walk, right? And in what, why are you walking? Because your curiosity, you could see a lot more when you're walking around. So I, I personally believe we're all born with it. I think sometimes it gets suppressed and the easiest way to get it back out is to really activate your desires. So I believe that any, all of us have certain unique talents and we all have certain desires, things that we feel sometimes where we, a desire is nothing more than, um, a, a dissatisfaction maybe with something that is, or a, does a longing for something else that, that you just feel you want, that comes from the inside out.

And when you activate that desire, I think, and allow yourself to have that desire, then that's when the curiosity becomes, um, and intensifies with fascination because then you're willing to listen and observe and, you know, ask questions because you're really, you're really searching for that expansion of your awareness, you know, to have those experiences or, or whatever. And I think in sales, many people are taught, you, you mentioned something about people are asking questions and then they're thinking about the next question and they're not listening. I think that's a big trap that we all fall into because we, you might go to sales training, let's say you never sold before. And so these people are telling you to ask certain questions, but they never tell you why you're asking those questions, right?

And because you don't know why you're asking those questions, you're just trying to go through the mechanics and say what they say and you sound as fake and inauthentic as ever, right? Because you're really not understanding what you're doing and why you're doing it. Um, you know, a classic example from my mentor that I always say is, and this ties into emotional intelligence, he would say, always ask him, why is that important to you? Now he never told me why I had to ask that question. Never, never. So I, I would feel uncomfortable with it. I was like, well, what's that question have to, because I was in my head a lot and I would ask a lot of head questions, you know, just about how things work and whatever systems and that kind of thing.

But that was huge, but he never told me why. And the why is because you want to identify motive. Going back to your dad being a detective, huh? It's true. It's true. But man, you know, you, but you have to, and the only way you get people to move in sales is by activating, you know, and, and figuring out motive and then using the motive to help people move towards what their transformation is going to be. But if you don't understand the motive and understand the person, then you can't activate those release mechanisms that are going to get them to act. So you mentioned, you know, and, and reading a few of the articles, I'm, I'm guessing you're a big fan of, uh, the why, if you will, understanding why you do what you do.

Um, how do you translate that for people? Do you, do you look at that all the way from the top down, as far as you and your personal, why of why you get up every morning and do what you do and then how, why you sell or work and where you work. Right. So, cause there's two, two pieces of that. There's a, there's a, a personal why, but then how that translates to your job. And I think a lot of people are disconnected with that, which is why I'm asking. It's they, they, they might feel something of bigger purpose about themselves, but they're quote unquote stuck in a job that doesn't align with that. And, and I'm going to add one more layer to this, which is that limiting belief. You know, it's really impressive that your parents were in the situation that they were in and living paycheck to paycheck and doing all the things of getting loans and then decided one day that, no, we can do better than this.

But I, I think so many people don't, they don't make that jump. They don't, they have a limiting belief that yeah. Okay. I see everybody else doing it, but I don't, I don't think I can, or I'm not willing to take, put in the risk. So could you connect the dots for me about, you know, how you identify your personal why, and then how you translate that to your job so you can break through some of those limiting beliefs? Sure. So I think everyone, you know, and all the articles that you read today in HR magazines and different things, you know, the, the whole great resignation, all that kind of stuff, people are looking for more meaning and fulfillment in their life. Right. Especially after COVID, when you were sitting there scared about whether you were going to live or something bad was going to happen or whatever, it all of a sudden it was like, my life has to have some meaning and I want to have some meaning to it.

Right. And so I think your personal why is really getting clear on what your value system is, right? What's most important to you value wise. And you know, what are the things that you are really good at? Because when we give our talents to someone else, we feel fulfillment. Like if you're ever feeling bad and you don't know what to do, just go out and hold the door, go shopping for the lady down the street, do something for someone else. And immediately you're going to feel better. So we, we, we are fulfilled when we're serving others and when we're using our talents. So finding your why internally, I think first comes from having those quiet discussions about what is it that I really value.

And if my life, if I look at my life as chapters of 10 years, what are the things that I want to do to impact the people that I love and care about or impact the world and using my talents in those kind of category, you know, those, those chapters, if you will, and, and recognizing that you're only passing through, like we're passing through. And if you think about how, how you can make an impact and leave the world a better place is in your stewardship as the fact that you came through before you leave for those who come behind, what is that that you want to leave behind? You know, what is that value? Whatever. Once you understand that, then it's a matter of not taking a job, like leaving, getting rid of the belief that I have to work and I have to do a job because I have to pay bills and I'm going to take any job that goes.

That's the worst decision you can make. I can't tell you how many different people I've coached and the first question we get to, because they're stuck, I said, do you love what you're doing? And then they say, no. I said, then why are you doing it? Because your energy is all about minimizing resistance. And when you feel fulfilled and you release your power and you're in a flow state, it's all about least resistance. And so if you don't like what you're doing, then your attitude towards it is not going to be very positive. Then that's going to come back to you. And it just all snowballs. So how do you tie the why? You have to say, what are my talents? How can I serve people with the talents and leverage a position where they're going to pay for that value?

Who needs my specific talents? How do I get myself in that position? What kind of culture do I need to be in a company so that I can grow and expand this talent? Because this talent, I was, every single one of us is unique. Because it's a snowflake. And every single one of us has a purpose and a specific talent that the world needs. And we're here on the journey to express and expand and spread that out as much as we can before we're done. And if you think about it that way, you know, put yourself in a place where you can play to your strengths, manage your weaknesses, but play to your strengths. Yeah, I say that a lot. Like, your weaknesses are your weaknesses for a reason. So you don't like doing them, right?

I used to hate managers who used to try to fix my weaknesses. I'm like, I don't like doing this. So you're just going to force me to do something I don't like to do. And to your point, manage your weaknesses, limit them, but don't focus on them. Focus on what gives you, you know, the whole energy management concept of, you know, I know there's a lot of talk about like energy management throughout the day and when you should do certain things. To me, you know, I created the, I don't know if you call it a vision board, but this chart of stuff that gives me energy and takes energy away and helps me achieve my goals or does not help me achieve my goals. You put everything in one of those quadrants and everything that gives you energy and helps you achieve your goals go all in on, literally do as much as you possibly can.

But everything that takes energy away and does not give you, you know, does not help you achieve your goals, literally cut those out of your life as fast as you possibly can. And I hate to say this, but that's friends, that's family, that's, that's situations, that's jobs, that's, you know, whatever, gossip, alcohol, drugs, whatever it might be, put it in there and get it away because that's the fastest way you can unleash, you know, yourself to go focus on what's real. It gives you energy because that, you know, that energy does matter. And I don't think a lot of people realize it until they maybe get later, at least I don't, I didn't, about how important it was to have passion and be energized by what you do so that you're not drained.

Because when you're drained with what you do, that ends up draining away everything else that you do love, family, friends, all those, all those things. Now you don't have the energy to actually apply to those. Right. I always look at it as strengths as like, in addition to, like play to your strengths and always doing the in addition to. But on the flip side and managing my weaknesses, I look at that's an opportunity for collaboration because there's a lot of other people that have talents that I could surround myself where they could play to their strengths. And the sum of all of us playing to our strengths is greater than any one of us tried to do the whole thing. Right. And that's the whole thing about energy alignment with source energy is that when you collaborate and realize that you're, um, you're part of a bigger, something bigger than yourself, and you really start to build connections with different people for synergy that can, can have a big force of energy to do something really powerful and impactful to the world.

Yeah. That's the great thing. And that's why I say choose a company when you're going to go to work in a culture where you're going to thrive, where you can bring your strength and leverage it with somebody else's strength and another person and another person to really make impact and let everybody play to their strengths, make sure everybody's sitting in the right seat on the bus to play to those strengths, to really make that synergy. And that powerful impact to have meaning on the energy and that powerful impact to have meaning on the planet and, and to enjoy yourself. Because when you're, when you're in that zone, like doing what you love, time stands still. And there's no stress. There's no stress to play into your strengths or it's healthy stress.

You know what I mean? I think that's the way I look at it is, you know, there's going to be stress regardless. Like I love what I do. Right. But obviously running a business is stressful. And so as much as I love it, I have to manage that, but it's a far healthier stress. Then, you know, for me personally, having somebody else to take my path or being told what to do and have no control over really, I mean, that's what's happening. I think a lot of what's happening right now is that people, especially, you know, I do a lot of work in SAS and in SAS sales, and the ad industry is getting, you know, the industry is getting destroyed. And there's a lot of reps who are sitting there freaking out about the fact that they have really no control of whether they get hired or fired or not at this point.

And so that is a level of stress. You know, I always say entrepreneurship is, it is stressful in every way, shape or form, but it's a healthy stress, I think, because if you believe in what you do, if you have passion for what you do, then you control your own destiny. So, but those values, you actually mentioned the values piece of it that I think is critical and aligning those values with an organization, with a mission, with something that, because if you and I have shared values, Rhonda, we can argue all day long, but we'll come to a place of a green agreement. But if we don't have shared values, we're just going to argue. So how do you uncover? I mean, look, every company puts their values and their mission up on their whiteboards and talks about, you know, and maybe has some monthly little checklist that they go through.

But as an employee, or as somebody looking out there to really, first of all, center on your values, make sure you are crystal clear on those. How do you uncover that a company really shares the values? What would your approach be to looking for? And this is not just for employment. This is also for for clients, if you will. Like if you're going out and selling and prospecting into new companies, I always tell my team, don't just put them on a list because they fit a demographic profile. Ask yourself, why do you want to work with that company? What connects with you about that? So any tips on searching for the connection of values outside of just blatantly asking for them? Because I think a lot of people say a lot of stuff, but they don't live it.

And once you get behind the curtains, you're like, oh shit, I didn't, like, I was wrong. So any tips on that one? Um, I think, I think the values, you have to ask certain questions, um, when you're from your experiences, I think is the best. I would say that's the best, um, uh, uh, framework to start with is think of the time when you first took from the time you took your first job to wherever you are today. And if you had to force rank them, every experience, I don't care whether it was delivering pizza when you were sick, 16 or whatever. Um, which, which, which one of those experiences did you enjoy the most and why? And then write that down. And then I think what you have to, you have to get clear on too, is what are your strengths?

And so if, if I'm interviewing a company, I'm look for me personally, I value, um, you know, contribution and being able to, uh, you know, provide new ideas and not being told what to do. So for For me, like smaller companies, when I do consulting now, it's smaller companies that have the entrepreneurial spirit and I'm looking to see if they're in an infinite game or finite game. So I'm in med devices, right? There's a lot of time. I've been through too many different experiences where, you know, somebody thinks that just because they got an FDA clearance, you know, sales are going to go through the roof. Everybody's going to be a millionaire and they're going to go on vacation and sit there and smoke cigars on Puerto Rico or something like that.

Right. And it's just fairytale dust because there's, there's, you know, you have to have a need that serves the market. So one of the questions I'll ask is why are you in business? And then see what kind of responses, because when you say, why are you in business? They could start telling you the story about, yeah, we're going to do this, get the stock or whatever. You know, they're in the finite game. Now, if you know that and you're, you want to, you know, they're going to throw big money at you and you know, it's a short term thing. Great. And that turns you on, go for it. But, you know, ask some of these basic questions. You know, I talk to a lot of people and I look at their resume and I say, every two years you're jumping job to job.

Why are you doing that? You know, and there's, there's really a couple reasons there. One, they're probably not clear on their why and, and where they're going. Two, they might not have had the courage to ask questions to make sure it's a good fit for them before they say yes. And three, they might not have changed themselves. So if you want different change in your life, you have to change first. And that all starts with the decision because nothing will ever change until you decide that you're going to change. And then when you decide all things, the whole world opens up. Yeah. I love that. Now there's a quote that I want to read you in one of your articles that I need some clarification on.

Okay. Because I think it's great. It says, it took me eight months to realize that I wasn't emotionally involved with changing my self-image. I was not thinking from the new self-image. I was thinking of it. To become emotionally involved means you must have a new emotion tied to an image. Talk to me about that a little bit as far as the image, you know, where, where were you at that point in your life that you realized that? And, and what, you know, when you talk about thinking from the new self-image, I was thinking of it. Can we unpack that one a little bit? Yeah, sure. It's a huge one. It's why a lot of us fall into imposter syndrome. If anybody can ever relate to that feeling. I did a whole episode on that one.

And I actually realized, you know, something interesting. I realized the positive thing about it. About imposter syndrome really quick. It's actually a good thing because it means you're growing. And, and the idea there is every time you reach a new level, like you've never been there before. So you inherently feel like an imposter. And then, so it's actually a really, really positive thing for people to feel imposter syndrome because that means you are moving up versus staying. Because you don't, you don't really feel like an imposter if you're, if you're, if you're always at the same level and you know everybody at that level. So it was just an interesting realization for me because I always thought it was negative.

I'm like, oh, I have this real weird imposter syndrome and I just can't get rid of it. But now I'm like, oh shit, that's good because that means I'm leveling up every time. I love that point. I think that's a great point to start with. But when I say of and from, I'll use imposter syndrome because you are growing, you are in a certain state, you've been vibrating with certain habits and certain thought patterns, certain things that you do, ways you talk to people. And now all of a sudden you're in this new field of uncertainty. Okay. So you're growing. You said you wanted to go there, but typically what we do is we start to think of what we want. So it's like, you're on this level of vibration, like I'm on 102 FM and I'm trying to go to 104, right?

And so I'm thinking about 104 and the music over there is different and I'm, and I'm trying to get there, but I'm trying to get there. with the music that I've got on one of two. And so an example, you know, when I was a manager, I think one of the stories that I tell in the book, I went on this, I was a district manager position open. I wanted to get into management and all of us went in for the interview. I didn't get the job and I was devastated. I said, why to my manager, I said, Mike, what is it that I'm not doing? Why didn't I get that position? He says, well, you don't act like a manager today. And I said, okay, what do you mean? He said, well, sales manager, you know, if you're going to act as a sales manager, you know, when you're sitting in a meeting, you're getting watched by the district managers, the regional managers, et cetera.

And so if you're sitting back there kibitzing with people complaining about like some new thing that we have, or this quote is ridiculous or whatever, you're just being a rep. Now, if you're sitting there and someone in the leadership, you know, does something and you sit there and support it and start acting like a manager in your role, then you're going to start, you know, you're teaching people, you're helping people step up, et cetera. And you're supporting different things. You may not agree with everything that's coming down from the top, but you're at least acting in a mature way, the way a manager would be. Because a manager sometimes has to do things that maybe they don't agree with, but they have to kind of go with it.

So you have to act like one. Well, that was the greatest advice that I started doing that. And within nine months, there was a management position open that came up and they just called me in and they said, we're going to give you this position. And I didn't even have to do any interview, but I had changed the way I was being. I started operating on the frequency instead. And you have to make decisions on the frequency. So if I was a manager today, how would I decide, make that decision on what to do now? And you start acting up on that frequency instead of down here, looking up at it like it's a wish because and so emotionally involved means you're writing, writing down a goal helps you get emotionally involved because you picture yourself as the manager, you picture yourself holding a meeting, you picture yourself standing up on a podium, you picture all that stuff and you get more and more emotionally involved.

And it's like acting, it's visualizing and acting as if, and acting as if is the secret to everything. And it causes the repetition of acting as if causes the belief to solidify. And then you just know that, you know, that you're going to be that person. And that's what it takes. Could you, and I'm wondering if you have a distinction between, because it's slight, but act as if is one mentality versus fake it till you make it. What are your thoughts on fake it till you make it? I think fake it till you make it. If, if that's going to cause you to act as if, um, you know, do it with authenticity, like do it the way you would do it. Do it. Don't. Sometimes people might look at somebody in a position and they try to act like that other person instead of saying, I have this position.

How do I act in this position? So I think it needs to be authentic. But I always tell people that in sales, your conviction, this is where conviction comes in. You got to understand you're, you're, you have a mind that has two parts. You have your conscious mind, your subconscious mind. And your conscious mind is kind of the head, the thinking part, like the architect that would build a building structure or something. Right. And then your heart is the emotional side of you. And when you go to sell to somebody, to something, if you, if this is why it's so important to love what you do and do what you love. If you believe it in your head and you know it in your heart, that it's a great product and it's really going to help that person.

You're going to have alignment between your head and your heart, which is a vibration. And it's going to be congruent. When you doubt yourself and you got it up here, you can believe something in your head, but if you don't believe it in your heart, that vibration is going to have incongruence in it. People will not know why they don't buy from you, but they won't buy because it's not congruent. We're all souls that pick up the law of vibration. We all speak it, whether we know what we're speaking or not. We can feel things. That's just like, sometimes you feel that I just don't trust that person. Or I feel like, oh, I think I can trust that person. It's that feeling thing. It's congruence you're picking up.

And I can tell you as a salesperson, like getting that act as if and keeping it authentic and getting the repetition and getting emotionally involved into it until you believe it is really important because the more congruent you become and the stronger your conviction is, you're going to win. So if your conviction and I'm the sales professional talking to you about a solution and my conviction is so high, even if you don't believe it, you're going to trust my belief because of the congruency because we're talking soul to soul. We're emotionally connected on composites. You're going to go across the bridge and take the risk and go into uncertainty because you believe in me and you're believing in my belief.

But if your belief that it's not right is stronger than my belief and I'm over here second guessing myself, then that's why we lose sales a lot of times because our conviction is not strong enough to hold the bridge of belief so the person can come across into the uncertainty and go into their new promise land. What's up, everybody? I know you're enjoying this conversation. John does a great job with genuine curiosity on these episodes and our guests consistently bring the heap. We want to take a moment here and let you know that you've got an opportunity, an opportunity to become better than you were yesterday, and you can do so by gaining access to all of JB sales content. All of their training tips, techniques, tactics, and takeaways can be yours for $1 a day.

$365 for the year gets you annual access to everything, including our private Slack channel for members only, which you get access to all of us directly 100% of the time, 24 hours a day. And then at the same time, you're going to get access to our bi-weekly Ask Me Anything sessions where you can bring real deals to the table and get the help that you need where you need it. This is very, very important. Sales reps that invest in themselves are often found at the tops of their leaderboards. Join us today and get the help you need to become the seller that you deserve to be. That URL, one more time, is joinjbsales.com. Let's get back to the show with JB and our guest for this week. Somebody said this to me early in my career, that sales is the transfer of enthusiasm.

You know, if you believe in what you do, and that's why I think the most critical success factor or the most important characteristic of somebody who wants to be genuinely and truly successful in sales is a bleep in what they do. And if they don't, you know, that's where bad sales comes in, because I tell people all the time, if you're just selling for a commission check and you don't genuinely think that your solution, your product, whatever it is, can make a real difference for the right person, not for everybody, for the right person. If you don't believe that, then you're the one who gives this profession a bad name because you're out there just trying to get a commission check. You don't genuinely care about the end result of what your solution can do for that person.

And that's, you know, you might be, the frustrating part is that you see some people who, you know, have been convinced that their stuff is good or whatever it is, and they have the conviction, but it's a false conviction, right? It's a pushy conviction, and that might do okay, pushing, you know, certain types of products down people's throats and making some money. But I think when you really take a look back at your career and you look back and the difference that you made, that's where you start to question a lot of the stuff that you did to get that money or to, you know, get those commissions or whatever it might be, which is really inherently frustrating. Because that, you know, our profession is riddled with that quite a bit.

There's quite a few charlatans out there who are really just, I don't care, you know, all the movies and the Glengarry Glen Rosses and all that stuff is that, you know, that positions people of like, who cares about what happens on the other ends? And that to me is, you know, the sad part of why people get into sales because they see the money factor and they don't see the real difference factor that they can make. Yeah, but I question, I question who cares because it is going to haunt you. Yeah, it will. I don't think that. And at what cost is that? Yeah. As you know, it's like, who's the, you know, people say I'd rather cry in my Ferrari than be happy in my Honda. I disagree with that. I'd rather be happy in my Honda than cry in my Ferrari.

So, I think Gary Vaynerchuk says like, if you make $50,000 a year and you're happy, then you win, right? You know, you're genuinely happy, you win. I know millionaires who are miserable pricks and, you know, I wouldn't trade my life for theirs in any way, shape or form without how much money they had. Yeah. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, what is it that to thy own self be true. So, you've got to decide what it is that you, who you want to be and how you want to show up in life and what you want to be known for? Because I tell everybody, whether you like it or not, you're leaving a legacy. Yeah. But these industries that we get into are small worlds. I mean, I've been at it for 37 years and it gets smaller and smaller every year.

Yeah, every year. Sometimes. I want to ask what, I think this will open up another part of the conversation, but what is RAS? It's, help me understand this, reticular activating system. You had written that in one of your articles. Could you let me explain that, what that is? Yeah, you're reticulating our, your RAS is basically between your conscious mind and your subconscious mind, right? So, when you're, when you really understand how to sell with your emotional intelligence, you'll know that that RAS is when people close their mind, right? So, we get bombarded with information. So, you'll screen through your emails and a lot of it, you'll just totally shut out because your brain actually only has so many hours of process.

I don't understand the whole thing. Go talk to Joe Dispenza if you want to go deep dive in that, but it basically only has so much power during the day to go through things. So, people will close minds if they think it's not something that they need to thrive or survive, right? I agree, yep. And so, when, when, when I say, you know, one of the articles that I wrote was about the two fatal mistakes that people make and it's making assumptions and not being prepared. Being a fit. And when I, when I refer to close, you know, people shutting down their mind is a lot of times you, you spoke earlier about making sure a fit, um, you have a fit with your product. So, my big thing is, you know, opening, get down to business quick, and then you're doing a lot of investigation.

And in that investigation, you don't want to be making any assumptions. So, you want, in the investigation, you really want to understand what the customer wants and, um, why they want it and what the motives are. There's going to be task motives and there's going to be personal motives. So, I sell B2B, so sometimes it's a lot of complex selling, so you have to kind of unravel all that stuff. But at the end of the day, you never want to assume that the customer, just because they told you some implicit, um, implicit needs that they have, that they need your solution. You want them to state explicitly, this is what I need, this is why I need it, and this is my opinion of the problem, and this is the urgency, and this is when I want to do it.

And only then, until they've said all that, you can say it back to them, you're making an emotional composite, they say, oh my god, she gets me, right? And at that point, then they have trust, and they're reticulating RAS is open. So, that means they'll allow you to place some suggestions or seeds down into their subconscious mind. But if you assume, and you start saying to someone, well, John, it sounds like you need a X, Y, and Z, and you're sitting there saying, she didn't, she, no, I don't need an X, Y, and Z. She didn't, she didn't even hear me. Boom. Closed. There's, you could plant seeds all day, you could talk, nothing's going into the dirt, man. It's like you've got, you have no access to the dirt to plant a seed to get something to sprout.

And the whole thing that we're supposed to be doing, when you're persuading, is you're trying to get some new ideas into people's minds about ways that they can solve a problem, or why you can help them serve a need. But you're never going to get in the dirt if the RAS shuts down. So, the whole thing about emotional intelligence, and selling with your emotional intelligence, and making these composites, is to get the RAS open, so that you can persuade, get some new ideas flowing, get agreement to see, you know, if they agree. And then those things start to grow, and then you activate their imagination, and you see what the guard looks like now that the seeds are planted. Now they get excited, they're enthusiastic, you turn on their motives, and man, they're running to the, you know, they're saying, let's do this, right?

Does that help? Yeah, absolutely. And you brought up an interesting point, you know, when you're listening to people, you know, the art of being able to reframe, or summarize back to them what you heard in a way that actually clarifies what they told you. And Chris Boss has a really interesting small nuance about this, where after you summarize back to somebody what you heard from them, what you're looking for is a, that's right, versus you're right. Exactly. If you hear, you're right, that's more of a, oh, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. Basically, saying that you made some, to your point, you made some assumptions that I don't agree with, and you didn't even really listen to me. So, I've shut down my RAS, and I'm just, oh, yep, you're right, whatever, send me a proposal, see you later.

But if you get, if you can genuinely get somebody to say, yeah, man, that's right, like, you nailed it, that's exactly what my problem is. Now you got them. Now that RAS is open, now you can plant those seeds, and now you can move forward with them together, which I think is pretty cool. So, very cool. Awesome, Rhonda. Well, I think you and I could talk sales all day long, but let's wrap this up a little bit. Well, anything else that you wanted to make sure that people got away from this, and then we can talk about where they can learn about more from you. But is there any last-minute topics that you wanted to make sure that people at least thought of? Yeah, I would say, excuse me, you know, emotionally connecting with others is how you talk soul to soul, and you build bonds, and you get connections, and you can reveal authenticity to one another.

So, again, there's three major composites that you want to have in a sales situation. So, the first one is the composite of you having conviction, so you loving what you're doing, believing in your product, and it's in your head and your heart, your congruence. So, that congruence builds trust, right? So, in the opening, it's building trust, and so that's the first composite, that your attitude and everything you're portraying is authentic and coming forth. So, that's really important. And if you don't have that, it's probably causing your objections. That's one. Two is that part about find a need, no want, no sale. So, you've got to do a really good investigation, and then, like you said, get them to say, that's right, you know, and confirm, and when you say it back to them, you're acknowledging, you're validating, they get, you get them, that's emotional composite number two.

If you don't do that, that's probably causing your sales to be off. And then, the third one is you've got to realize that they need to get a composite that themselves, they have to trust themselves and trust you. There's only three reasons people don't buy. One is it's not a fit, or they don't need it right now. Two is they do not trust you, because there was some incongruence. Or three, they don't trust themselves. That's one that most people don't think about, but a lot of people don't trust themselves. And the only way they're going to have trust is sometimes you have to loan, you have to believe in them, and loan them some trust so that they can walk across and trust themselves. And that means that you're going to have to, you have to have congruence in your decision power so that you can help them make a decision.

Because at the beginning of this, we said no change without a decision, right? So, ask yourself, if a client doesn't trust themselves, and you're asking them to make a decision, how good are you making decisions yourself? Because you can't give what you don't got. If you're very confident, and you can make decisions, and they feel that trust and that congruence, they're going to walk across the bridge with you. Yeah. Even if they don't trust themselves. There you go. Trust is a really interesting thing. It takes a long time to build, and a short time to lose. I mean, I think that's, you know, we're watching that happen real time with banking right now. It's like, you know, you trust your bank for a while, but then all of a sudden you get that one hint of, uh-oh, and there's the run, see you later.

And it happens now overnight with brands, with people, with everybody else. I mean, the whole adage of, you know, you could do a 10 attaboys, but one screw up will throw all that out the window. And I think that's what people need to be very, I think that's why authenticity matters so much right now, more than anything. Oh my gosh. Because if you are authentic and you screw up, you know, you might, you'll probably get the benefit of the doubt. Uh, that's why owning your screw ups is so critical and not trying to avoid them. Because if you, you know, how many times, I mean, we are oddly in America, we are a very forgiving society in the sense that no matter how bad somebody screws up, if they stand up and they own it, and they're like, look, I screwed up.

Like, you know, I, I, whatever people forgive them, but when they, when they deny it or when they try to hide from it, they get slaughtered and they're over. It's just, it's, it, I don't understand why people don't see that every single day and realize the impact of just owning your failures and being authentic. Because it's the, I've always said, you know, one of my superpowers is authenticity. And the reason is, is because to me, the reason I'm authentic is because being anything else is too hard. Like, I don't have the energy to lie. I don't have the energy to be something that I'm not. Like I, I, all these people who are trying to put their position, you know, themselves up as far as, uh, you know, on their Instagram page and how perfect their lives are.

But knowing that they're a train wreck behind the scenes or that type of stuff, it's like, that to me is just exhausting. I'd rather tell people on the train wreck and show people on the train wreck and pretend like I'm not. So, uh, I think that brings us full circle to the authenticity point that you and I run, uh, definitely connect on. So thank you very much for your time here. I appreciate it. You're welcome. You're welcome. It was a pleasure. Absolutely. And so where, where can people find out more about you? I mean, you got the book, you got your consultancy. So talk to the audience where they can find out more information. Yeah, sure. So if you'd like to get a copy of the book, um, it, it, uh, has all kinds of information in there about how, um, I align with universal law to help increase magnetism and increase your, your authenticity.

So that can be, you can go to www.thespiritofselling.com and there's links to get the book there. There's also a lot of tools and trip, uh, tips, uh, downloads, the thing about the self-image, there's all kinds of tools. And so I highly recommend getting it. It will give you a lot of insights to yourself, insight to yourself. And then for my consulting and speaking, it's www.3x5coaching.com and it's 3x5. So it's like, think of a three by five card. That's, I got my, into my business. My, my husband always says, you're writing all your goals on three by five cards. That's what you should do. So that's the name. Well, awesome. I hope everybody goes, checks that out and, uh, and yeah, and picks up the book and hopefully kind of changes their, their mindset.

Let's see for people right now who are just, you know, maybe stuck or trying to figure out what that next part in their careers, or even wondering if sales is for them. You know, I think a lot of people get into this and then they, they either get bad management or they work for companies that don't, they don't believe in. And then they question the whole purpose that they're in this profession in the first place. And there is a better way. You just got to find the right, uh, right value system, the right ones to connect with. All right. That's right. Awesome. Well, again, thank you very much. And look, everybody else out there, I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. And like I always say at the end of these podcasts, go out there and make somebody smile today.

Because no matter how bad your day went or how bad you think it's going, if you make somebody smile today, you know, you had a good day and the world needs a lot more of that right now. So thank you all very much. And I'll see you on the other side. Thank you so much for your time today and listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did with your support and our incredible guests. We're one of the top sales podcasts in the industry with over a million downloads. And I can't thank you enough to keep the momentum going. If you could go to your favorite podcast platform and leave us a five-star review, I would greatly appreciate it. In return, I will answer any question that you have on Instagram.

Hit me up there at John M as in Michael Barrows with a video question or a DM and I will get right back to you, I promise. And last but not least, if you're looking for training, I'm adjusting my training approach this year and I'm actually going to be delivering training to the masses. I'll be delivering live training the first and second week of every single month with our two marquee courses, filling the funnel and driving a close to anybody who wants to join. And it includes membership in our on-demand platform with weekly AMAs. So you can go to jbarrows.com slash open to check out the details. Thanks again and have a great day.