Stacey Hall: Selling from Your Comfort Zone

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests who I truly respect and I think make a positive impact on the world around us. Now, today's conversation is with Stacey Hall. Stacey has coached thousands of entrepreneurs on how to attract sales, satisfaction, and success. She's also a TEDx presenter, social media market expert, and a bestselling author with her new book that just came out a couple of months ago called Selling from Your Comfort Zone, The Power of Alignment Marketing. Now, as I prepped for this conversation, it was evident to me that Stacey and I share a lot of the same core values and thoughts around how sales should be done, which is where we started our conversation.

We discussed the difference between perceived values and actual values and how to reverse engineer your career by starting with values first and looking for opportunities and people that align with them. We then dove into the old school mindset of sales and why it has to change, specifically around what most sales trainers tell you to do, which is get out of your comfort zone if you want to be successful. Stacey actually takes the exact opposite approach and explains why staying in your comfort zone is the key to success and happiness in sales and business. We hit on a lot of different topics and as usual, I tried to take the idealistic view of how things should be done and balance them with the reality that most of us face.

I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Let's make it happen. What's happening, make it happen family? Big shout out to our partners today, Gong, Vidyard, and Chili Piper. Gong's data is more than valuable. It's cornerstone in any organization looking to collect the data that's going to tell them where they can improve and where they need to spend their time making changes. Vidyard makes it easy for people to use videos anywhere. No matter whether you're sending videos in email or on social media, posting them somewhere or sending them in a DM, Vidyard has got you covered. Our friends at Chili Piper are so much fun to be around. They make it easy for people to get on your calendar and every sales rep has got to have this function locked in.

It's one of the most important things we can do as a seller. How can I get you on my calendar easily? Chili Piper can make that happen for you. Be sure that you're checking out all these great tools and now let's pass it over to John to find out who's joining him today. See you soon, everybody. Stacey Hall, welcome to the Make It Happen Monday podcast. How are you doing today? I am doing great, John. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. I appreciate you joining us here and I'd love to give the audience a little background on what this discussion, because as I was prepping for this, I was looking through your book and it's what, selling outside or selling from within your comfort zone, right? Which we're going to get into.

But it was funny because a lot of what you write about aligns very directly with some of the messaging that I'm out there pushing as far as values and sales done right versus the old school gross way. But just give the audience a little bit of background and context for this conversation. Could you tell everybody where you're coming from and what you're up to these days? Well, first off, I grew up in the sales world. My father was a sales person for many, many years. And I saw the good, the bad, and most of the ugly through him as I got older and older. But I grew up listening to the tapes, literally the cassette tapes and the promotion, you know, and and how I always tell everybody. Say that again.

What did he sell, by the way, just out of curiosity? Oh, he sold everything from this. I'm not going to say the name. We'll call it copiers to um, uh, educational institutions. Okay, cool. Okay. Yeah. Uh, he stayed with companies for a pretty long time. He didn't jump around, um, you know, cause people didn't do that back then, but he, he really never wanted to be in sales. He was a geologist and there just weren't any jobs for geologists that required him to be able to stay home and all that. Otherwise he'd be traveling all the time. So he went into sales cause everybody told him he was good with people. And that is a very typical thing that people do. Everybody says you're good with people.

You should go into sales, go sell something. You'd be good at it. Or people think to themselves, I love people. I love helping people. I want to go help people with these products that have helped me. And they go in with this passion. Right, John. And then they're introduced to sales training, not relationship training or encouragement. I would even call, I don't think you really need to be trained in how to make friends. We've all learned how to make friends by the time we're adults. Right. But sales training is training is training to stop being the human being we are and to become uniform. Not just wearing a uniform, but very consistent, able to be predictable, which is what companies want.

They want things to be predictable. And so for all these decades, as you well know, people have been taught first, here's how you need to overcome objections. Well, why do I even need to think about somebody saying no to me? Can't I just start preparing my way of selling and building relationship in a way that people are going to want to say yes to me? Like, wouldn't that be more, you know, supportive? And then they're taught how to do scripts. Because again, very predictable for a company to manage. It's all about being able to manage the person, not making them more successful. And by the time you go through that training, it's amazing that anybody can actually be successful at all, being put into this cocoon that I say, or this prison, and not able to step out of it until they tell you, and here's the kicker.

And then they tell you to get out of your comfort zone. Right? So in order to be successful with dealing with objections, in order to be successful in delivering a script, you have to get out of the part that makes you you and comfortable. And so you're always in this place of trying to become comfortable with the uncomfortable. So I'll stop there. Now, that's the premise. Okay, perfect. And I, and I'm because I'm curious about this. I mean, I have, I definitely have some thoughts about, and questions about that comfort zone. Let me ask it, let me start with this question. With the comfort zone, and you talk about this elastic band effect, right? And stretching from your comfort zone, not necessarily getting out of it.

Do you think that people who have a larger comfort zone that are, that is, that is willing to stretch out further and not get outside, but are kind of more risk, you know, risk takers, if you will, tend to be more successful than people have it, who have a smaller rubber band comfort zone? It's a great question. No one has ever asked me that question. That is a great question. And I'm going to say, no, I think the people who are risk takers are the people who would tell me, you do have to get out of your comfort zone. That's because there's a certain percentage of the world's population that are risk takers by nature. That's a core value for them. And they will go do what is not comfortable.

The vast majority of people have spent a lifetime developing their gifts, their skills, their talents, right? That's what we're taught to do. The things that we are naturally good at. Well, if you're coming from that place, you just do more of it. That's, it's not really stretching in ways that are uncomfortable. It's simply doing more of what you enjoy to do. So specifically in sales, it would be, if you enjoy talking to a certain kind of person, you want to do more of that. You want to talk to more of those kinds of people. So then you're going to go choose a product that's going to be of interest to more of those people, as opposed to choosing a product and then trying to figure out if you can get along or you like the people who need that product.

With that, and because you brought it up core values, and I think obviously this is a large premise for, for this discussion in the book. And also what I believe in, I believe strongly that core values dictate everything, right? Simon Sinek's why, and then your core values, and then that ends up being your decision stack so that you marry up everything up to it. The problem though is, is that, or the question I have is, I think I was introduced to core values as, as a definitive thing back when I was probably 23 years old when I read Think and Grow Rich. And somewhere in there, it said, so I kind of wrote down my 12 guiding principles and it really helped me. And then just recently, I went through my reset, my core values to make sure I reprioritized what was important in my life now versus what was.

But it's interesting to me that when I talk to people, sales reps or anybody for that matter, about, and ask them, what are your core values? They have a hard time articulating them. They have a hard time really understanding what they are. So as much as I love the idea of building your life around your core values, too many people, I don't think really truly understand them. And so is that the first step for almost anybody, regardless of sales, because I think it's really important in sales, but everything else, is that kind of your, the forcing function right now that we should all basically stop and almost go through that core value exercise before we do anything else? Well, I would say yes.

And that's why I made it the first part of the book. And here's the thing. Baby boomers, like myself, were not encouraged. I mean, so we were taught morals, right? We were taught rules. We weren't taught core values, which is not either one of those things. It's easier to follow rules. It's easier to have morals if you know your core values. So for a lot of folks who are older, when they look at that exercise, they go, oh, that's what you're talking about. And so once somebody gives them a suggestion of a core value can be integrity or honesty or adventureness could even be a core value, right? When you show them a list, oh, that's what you mean. It's very easy. Anyone younger than a baby boomer has actually been raised with core values.

They know their boundaries. And more and more these days, they are following, they're calling, their purpose, their values. They're sticking to them. And companies better align with them, right? It's a whole different shift. If they're not working for a company that is aligned with them, they're out of there and they're going to find ones that are. Well, let's talk about that a minute because I do, you know, I'm a Gen Xer and, you know, I don't know. I think my parents obviously instilled pretty strong values in me, even though they weren't out loud. It was based on their actions, you know, how I saw them treat people and everything else. And you have millennials and Gen Zs now coming into the workforce.

And I agree with you. They're much more purpose-driven, but I wonder if it's perceived core value versus actual core value. And let me explain, right? So perceived core value is, you know, it's the right thing to do. You know what I mean? Like, you know, everybody else says this is, you know, corporations are bad and this is bad. So I, and because everybody else is kind of speaking that, I, I, yes, that, that's what I believe in too. But it's a lot of people, and I'm going to be very direct here. I think a lot of people in this world are sheep. I think a lot of people follow along what other people tell them to do or what's popular, if you will, versus having actual core values that you sit down and reflect on for yourself.

So how much of what you're seeing out there right now with, with the newer, younger generations is, you know, a, a surface level value versus an actual core value that they, they believe in. And, and then I guess, does it matter as far as their actions are concerned? I love what you said. I'm going to give it some thought here. Cause there's a few things going around in my brain right now. First off, I think it does take a while. I don't think we're really sure of our, I'm like thinking back to, for me, I was raised with values, but I wasn't able to say to you without a doubt until I was at least 30. Right. These are the ones, this is it for the rest of my life. So I, I'm not going to paint younger folks with the brush that they're giving surface to their value.

I think they're playing with their values. So I want to say that first, that I do think it does take time before we cement the ones that we have for the rest of our life. That doesn't mean that we can't do in the moment, whatever we think our core values are. If we think that those are our boundaries, then we live inside those boundaries of our own making, not that someone else has put on us. When I say to somebody, okay, well, if I say, so what are your core values? They'll say to me, what do you mean? If I get that, I would say, what are deal breakers for you? Like in a relationship, what would be a deal breaker? And I will get betrayal, backstabbing, you know, okay. So what you're telling me is that loyalty and kindness and compassion are really important to you.

Is that true? Oh, absolutely. And that's, so it's not a difficult conversation to get to, but sometimes we have to present it from, do you know what your deal breakers are? And I think everybody knows that. Yeah. I was actually introduced that a while ago. It's easier to figure out what you really don't like. And that reflects on what you do like, right? So those are your, like when you have a visceral reaction to somebody lying to you or, you know, being dishonest or being late to a meeting, even, you know what I mean? Like that, like for me, one of mine is respect is meetings. Like if you're late to a meeting, I have a visceral reaction because I feel like you're disrespecting my time. And when I, when I am going to a meeting, I get anxiety when I'm late because I'm like, oh my God.

So, so for me, respecting people's time, you know, those types of things end up being core, you know, parts of my core values that I can extract from. So with that, I mean, I think it's what you're doing with what it seems like you're doing and tell me if I'm wrong here with selling from within your comfort zone is almost reverse engineering the approach here to, you said it earlier, instead of finding a company and kind of back and hoping for the best basically, because the company has got to, you know, you can make some money doing it in sales and, you know, everybody else is joining there. And so I heard, cool. You're saying, wait, take a step back before you do any of that. Start with you first, align those core values, and then look for companies that, that align with those and then look for the position within that company that aligns with it.

Right. Yes. And where the company doesn't give you lip service either. Like it's more and more, we're able to interview the interviewer to find out it's like these. And if we can go in and say, all right, I'm interested in this job because what I see you in whatever description has been given is that the company is committed to this and this and this, and those are my values too. How does the company put their money where their mouth is when it comes to the customer or when it comes to the employee? We can have those conversations now that when I was starting in business, it's like, are you kidding me? You're asking me questions? It's like, no. Okay. You know, out of here. But the world has changed.

And with it, we have this ability to match, to be our own best matchmaker. And then it comes down into sales with, again, if I'm using a product myself or I'm selling it because I have a passion to sell this product, even though I may not personally need it, but there's something that has happened in my world that I really see why this is essential for people who need it to have it. I'm going to be credible. I'm going to be authentic in what I'm sharing. I don't need a script because I already know what I want to say about it. And the folks who need it, when they feel that passion and that authenticity and that genuineness, that is what they're listening for. They're not listening for features.

They're not listening for benefits. And they're not listening for us to go sell on them. We're listening for, do you understand my problem? And somebody who understands that problem and wants to fix it is going to be heard. So let's unpack that a bit. I completely agree at the stage of the sales process where you're engaged in a conversation, you have somebody's undivided attention. And I am an anti-script guy in the sense that I can't stand scripts. I always say I can't stand scripts, but I love structure. Give me some structure to play within so I can understand the boundaries here and then let me go and try some new things so I can find my style, right? The art and the science versus of sales.

But when you're brand new at sales, I mean, unless you find something that you are so passionate about that, you know, like, so say you're, you know, you played sports, you played basketball in college for some, you know, whatever reason, then you get into sports marketing. And now you see that, you know, and they're like, oh, and, and, and to be, let's be frank, that is very rare that people get into a profession that they are insanely passionate about and can speak right, like in their first job that passionately about it. Oh, I agree. I agree with you right there, but that's what I want to change. So keep on going. So, and this is where I'm trying to understand is when I start any job, even if I am passionate about it, I need some guidelines.

I need like, I almost in some cases need a script. So I understand what it typically is, but then I need to make that script my own and put them some structure around it. So do you see any value in a script to get us started? Nope. I got to tell you, nope. And I'm going to say, I've got structure for you for sure. I've got structure. Structure is the alignment marketing formula that I speak about in the book because marketing comes before sales and more and more we're having to do the marketing and the sales. And, and that's great that we're not relying just on a company's ads. And in a lot of cases, the company doesn't even do ads anymore. We've got social media marketing. So the alignment marketing formula is you get into alignment with yourself, your values, your passion.

And we're going to talk about even somebody who's brand new and I'm going to use the example that you just talked about with the person who loves sports. So I'll come back to that. If you'll give me time, you get into alignment with yourself, you get into alignment with the company that is selling something you can get behind and you get into alignment with the audience. Because if you can get behind that product, so will your audience. If, if, if it's a match for their needs, they'll get behind it. So there's your alignment. You hold on to the belief in that alignment and how you do that is in the book, selling from your comfort zone. And when you're in alignment and you believe in what you're doing, you will stay consistent with your activities.

And we talk about the activities, not script, but what are you doing to build your audience, engage with your audience, and then sell to your audience. So that's the structure. You follow that, you will have sales satisfaction and success, but it starts with alignment. So is there time to talk about what you, okay. Well, let's talk, I mean, and that's that, that newbie, right? So let's, let's say that, let's say we map that out. Right. And, and a kid coming out of school is, you know, value driven. They, and let's use our space because the majority of it is tech and SaaS, right. And they find a product that's pretty cool. Like it's, you know, I don't know, DocuSign, Salesforce, you know, sales block.

You're going product first. And I'm saying we go passion first. So what I'm saying is they've already looked at their values. They looked at, they, they've aligned with the company. They know that the product makes a difference. Okay. They, they're, they're passionate about the fact that this will make a difference for the right person. Now I have to make it. Now I've done my onboarding. I've, I've gotten my product knowledge and I got to make a cold call here. What's that cold call sound like for that? Okay. Well, the cold call doesn't sound like a cold call. Okay. That's, we're going to change all of that. Okay. So tell me why let's pretend you're the person. Why are you passionate about this product?

What's your story? Story is I used it myself and it, you know, and it helped me be a lot more efficient with what I was doing. And I was able to, um, like I'm, I'm using like sales loft as an example. I'm asking, yeah. So give me something because this is how you tell whether somebody's passionate or not. What's your story about it? And it really changed the way I was able to get, you know, be a lot more efficient with what I do, but also make a much bigger difference for the right type of client using this tool. Um, because it gave me a, a, a, a faster way of engaging with people and an understanding of how I can improve. So that's why I love this product. And that's why I think sales teams need it.

Okay. And tell me, why was it important for you to be more efficient? Because I believe that strongly in what this thing does and I want more people to know about it. Okay. So you want to be efficient and being able to tell people about it, but I'm asking you, how does the product help you be more efficient? Oh, I mean, we could get into details in the sense that instead of me sending individual emails, I can create cadences and be very targeted with my messaging. Um, and I don't have to, you know, all the research is right already in the platform for me. So I'm not going to three different tabs every time I'm doing research on an account. And from a forecast accuracy standpoint, you know, I now have insights into what, why deals are, are not closing when, before I was in the dark.

So that, that's why I really think this, this is more people need to know about this tool. And I hear that. So for all of that efficiency, what does that get you? If you're that efficient, what has that gotten you? See, I'm not even asking about your audience yet. What has that gotten you? All that efficiency, all that productivity. I mean, uh, A, I get to make a bigger difference for more people. B, obviously I hit my quota faster, uh, you know, put more money in my pocket, got more opportunities for my wife and my family and those types of things. Ah, now we're getting it. Now we're, okay. Yes. Making a difference for other people. Spending more time with your own family, having more money to improve the quality of life for your family.

Right. Okay. Now I'm hearing your passions and why this product is so important to you. So now, you know, the kind of person, not just to you, you, you already probably know the job title of the person that you're, you know, the company's figured that out, but the conversations you want to have are, and this starts with the marketing on social media. Are you spending too much time at the job when you really want to be home with the family? Would you like to be able to triple your productivity in the same amount of time? Do you see? These are the marketing questions you would start putting out there. And people, if you're putting it where your likely ideal audiences, they're going to respond to you and say, yes, they're going to say, what is it?

Tell me about that. And, and let's use LinkedIn as a, as a place where people are making connections. If we could. Sure. I'm tired of seeing connection requests come with, I think we could do something together. I would love to know more about what you do. I, I'm doing this. I'd like to know, would you ever be interested in new? I got this one this morning, new digital technology. I look at the person's profile page. They're in education. I'm not in education. Why are you even, it's an educational software all over my profile. It says, what do I do? Okay. What if I got a connection request that said, cause you know, I'm in, I'm a sales trainer. What if that software, would you like to be able to reach more of your audience in less time?

And it could reduce the cost it's taking you to do that now. Would that be of interest to you? If so, let's connect and I'll show you what I have. Like what if that came to me? I never get a request like that. What's up everybody. I know you're enjoying this conversation. John does a great job with genuine curiosity on these episodes and our guests consistently bring the heat. We want to take a moment here and let you know that you've got an opportunity, an opportunity to become better than you were yesterday. And you can do so by gaining access to all of JB sales content, all of their training tips, techniques, tactics, and takeaways can be yours for $1 a day. $365 for the year gets you annual access to everything, including our private Slack channel for members only, which you get access to all of us directly a hundred percent of the time, 24 hours a day.

And then at the same time, you're going to get access to our bi-weekly ask me anything sessions where you can bring real deals to the table and get the help that you need where you need it. This is very, very important. Sales reps that invest in themselves are often found at the tops of their leaderboards. Join us today and get the help you need to become the seller that you deserve to be. That URL one more time is joinjbsales.com. Let's get back to the show with JB and our guests for this week. The balance that I always try to figure out though is, you know, reality versus the way it should be. The way it should be, I think you and I are very directly aligned as far as time to do this, give me time to research, be super passionate about what I do, have core values, sell something I genuinely believe in.

But in my world, you know, I mostly deal with SaaS companies who are VC backed, who get 50 million and they hire a whole bunch of sales reps and it's very like downward pressure for activities and, you know, numbers and 50 dials a day and those types of things. So how do you balance the reality of where many... And look, the answer I have to many reps is like, first of all, go find another job. But that's not always an option. You know what I mean? If you're not working for a company that you genuinely believe in and it relines with your core values, most people aren't quite frankly. And so to tell them, oh, you know, go find a company that does, that's like... No, actually, John, I'm going to tell you 55% according to a Harvard Business Day and it's in my book, they know they're selling the wrong thing.

There is a proliferation of companies and most companies cannot keep salespeople. They don't, they're leaving. I think it's like the average tenure now is like 16 months or something like that. Yeah, because there's none of this alignment going on. They get in, they think they're going to be able to make fast money. I'm really thrilled because just next week, I'm starting a book, a major software organization is having me come in and teach them the principles from selling from your comfort zone. Companies know they have to do things differently. But there's so many job openings, there may not be in other places, but sales, even if you have to go to direct sales or network marketing, but I'd like to, if it's okay, I'd like to go back to this baseball.

Okay, sure, yes. Played baseball in high school and college, still loves to play it on the weekends. And he's looking, or she is looking at, what can I sell that I can be passionate about? Well, like you said, it's sports, but baseball, you could be working for a major league team. They're always needing people to sell group sales and tickets. You could be working for a manufacturer of baseball equipment. You could be selling lots of products at the same time as a direct salesperson and have a stable of different products that teach somebody who is, you can even be, you know, you can be selling baseball training programs. So there's a thousand things you could be teaching. I talk, and this is for men and women, I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who love to cook or bake.

And more of that is happening more and more. And they go, there's no way I can make money at that. Really? Really? Food bloggers are some of the most highly paid bloggers out there. People love recipes. They love cookbooks. They love to know about gadgets in the kitchen. Every entertainment news program always has a recipe segment. There are a thousand things. If you're stuck in a job that doesn't light you up and you run home in the evenings or on the weekends and you're mixing up fun stuff in the kitchen, why are you not selling something that puts to use your talents? So you keep talking to me about the companies and I'm talking to the sales people, which, you know, there are some enlightened sales managers out there and they're hiring me to come in and help them open up their sales team to this idea that it's okay to be an individual.

There's others that, you know, they're old dinosaurs and they're going to keep doing it their way and they'll keep losing their people in 16 months or less. Yeah. And I think that's the, I think we're in such a transition zone right now because, you know, when, when you and I grew up in sales in a lot of ways, going back to your dad and everything, it was a very numbers driven, like, you know, 50 dials a day hit as many, you know, it was a very metric driven approach. I think everybody fundamentally understands right now that quality is the answer, right? Personalization and tailored. I mean, we're seeing it in the B2C space all day long. Like I love, I mean, it's funny about how people get annoyed at their iPhone for giving up ads based on things that they're talking about.

I personally love it. I love the fact that, that when I'm thinking of something that all of a sudden an ad on Instagram comes up with something I actually want as opposed to the random crap, right? Yeah. So I think we all fundamentally understand that quality is the issue. We all are yearning for it, but that's hard to coach to, right? That's really hard to coach to. What's easy to coach to is numbers, right? And I'm talking about the lazy management style of people like, you know, Gen Xers and above to say, you know, I get it. I want to coach, but I'm being held to a number. I got to manage the forecast here and I got to do my coaching, but I don't have time for coaching. So you know, it's easy.

How many dials did you make today? Did you make $50 today? Oh, you didn't. Okay. Well now you're on PIP. So it's a lazy approach. Yeah. We're in a transition, but, and I think we're seeing the breaking point with the options. Like you said, I mean, there is now the amount of options that are out there for kids to make money right now is bananas. So do you think it's just going to continue to evolve and push out those bad habits? Or do you think that those bad habits and those bad players are always going to have a major space in this, in this industry? I don't think so. And I'm speaking about my generation. We're getting older. We're leaving. I mean, I have no plans to go anywhere, but at a certain point, they're going to retire.

They're going to die off. And what is happening in the world, there will be less of this focus. I mean, numbers, of course, I don't want to say I'm not a hippy dippy person. A business is meant to make money, but in the sales arena, the, for years, what has been encouraged is the new blood coming in, the new customers that gets incentivized. Very rarely does a company ever incentivize how long you're keeping the customer. If there was an incentive for that to build relationships and you keep this customer over a long period of time, not only would you make the customer happy because they're working with the same person that they've built a relationship with over time, but you'll also keep the employee longer because they're being incentivized for staying longer.

So there are numbers that we can use for success. It isn't all about how many calls did you make today? It's about who did you have conversations with? Where did the conversation go? If you're not having conversations, why? Where are you stuck? Where are you not feeling passionate about the product? There's so much about leadership. And this is where leadership styles come into if we're going to talk about sales management. John, this literally made me cry. I did research for a project that I was working on leadership. Do you know that one third, and this is also a recent study, one third of all managers who answered the survey, never give, never give positive reinforcement or acknowledgement to the people they manage.

One third. How does that happen? How do you get away with that? I don't know. Okay. But that used to be the world I lived in. Like if you were, people needed to respect you, you needed to be tough. You needed to be down control. And if your team isn't scared of you, you're doing something wrong. Well, I mean, how outdated is that concept these days? It is, but it's, this is kind of my, this has always been my issue. Um, I always wonder if you look at, and I'm going to, everybody has their own definition of success. Okay. So let's, let's put that as a blanket statement. Success isn't money. Success isn't, it's all, you know, happiness is, is success ultimately. Right. Um, but if we look at the, the top of the top, right, as far as money makers in the world, the most quote unquote perceived successful people in the world, most of them are raging assholes, like raging assholes.

Okay. Like Steve jobs changed the world, raging asshole, right? Elon Musk. I've heard stories about him rage, you know, Larry Ellison. So, I mean, I, there are some people out there I look at like Mark Benioff and, and those people, but now let's bring it down to kind of our world here. I am fighting the fight of trying to sales done right as our Y and trying to elevate the profession for all the right reasons. Okay. But yet I, you know, I see, uh, Jordan, um, what, whatever, Wolf of wall street and, and, and Grant Cardone who are literally and figuratively 10 X as popular as I am. And I look at that and I say, and they're growing rapidly compared to the slow and steady growth that I've done because I refuse to sell my soul to get to that next level.

So with that, I, I get it. This younger generation is coming in. They're changing the game here, but I'm still seeing the exponential growth of jackassism and, and the slow slog of, of what I would say is, is, is, is pure, is right, is, is good. So where does that take us? Okay. Well, I'm just, I keep hearing slow and steady wins the race that said some of us want success faster. So I'm not going to speak to any one sales guru. Yeah. I put those names cause I have, I pick at fights for those people, but that's my own thing. So I'm not defending those styles. Let's put it that way. At all. And there's many more I could add to the list. I know me too. This is why, and if this sounds like a shameless plug for the book, please forgive me, but you opened it up and I've got to go there.

Yeah. Selling from your comfort zone. The style is teaching people how to get out of their comfort zone, saying to people, the reason you're not successful, I, I, I, stand back. Cause here, you got me on my soapbox now. Okay. These very same people and all of their big events and in their private events will say this to people in the audience. No one is like you. You are unique. Embrace your uniqueness, right? You hear you've, that's your selling point, your uniqueness. Okay. Two seconds later, but you've got to get out of your comfort zone and I'm going to show you how to get more comfortable getting out of your comfort zone so you can be more successful being you. Well, but wait a second. The parts that make me, me are my values, my skills, my strengths, my passions.

That is me. And so whenever, John, when I ask somebody, when they tell me, no, you have to get out of your comfort zone, I'll go, okay. So you tell me, where is that? Get out of your comfort zone. Where are you? How do you describe that space? No one can describe where they are when they're outside of their comfort zone. Where they are is dependent on the person who's telling them to get out of their comfort zone. That's where they are, dependent, not knowing what to do next. It sells lots of seats at events and it sells lots of books and trainings because those are the people who don't know what to do. But when you ask somebody, so what makes you comfortable? They'll tell you. They'll know exactly where they are.

And that's what I say. And what if you were able to expand that and still be successful? What everybody says to me is, show me. If you can show me, I want that. Well, we're showing. You are showing. I am showing. The people that I mentioned in the book are showing. So I tend to put my focus now on the people who are showing others how to tap into that comfort zone and expand it. And I have a lot less attention on those people because at a certain point, when they're still trying to get out of their comfort zone and not making sales, they'll look for a different way. Yeah. And I hope that realization comes sooner rather than later for most, right? Because one of the things about... I think a lot about sales is when you catch someone in their lifespan of sales because they could go in two different directions.

You know what I mean? If they get the charlatan, if their first exposure to sales is the charlatan, but that charlatan is driving around in a Lambo and flying around in Lear jets, that looks really appealing. And so I gravitate towards that. Whereas if their first intro to sales is value-oriented, focused with a good manager and that type of stuff, then they take a different track. The problem is the loudest microphone usually gets the most attention. And so I'm trying to figure out how to have a microphone that is as attractive without flying around, without showing the bling bling and all that other stuff just to get them hooked in, right? Because it's like once you're hooked into one approach or the other, you tend to go deeper on that.

But the hook is so much more appealing on the other side because it's much more short-term. It's much more in the world where we are as far as the Instagram lifestyle and everybody looks perfect on Instagram. That is short-term more appealing than the slow and steady growth, work at it, earn it, and you'll live a really healthy and valued lifestyle. It may be more appealing to somebody who's brand new to the world. But as we get older, we realize that there is nothing that really... Anybody who says that they did it overnight, they had help. They're just not telling you the help that they got. They either already had money or they had people who had money, whatever it is, or they are renting that stuff.

They're not actually buying it. But that said, I understand where you're at and it wouldn't be nice to be flashy. I'm going to say there are a few ways to speak to people that make them want to pay attention to us. One is if we can help them be more successful in business. Another is if we can help them be more attractive or more popular in some way. If we can help them understand their self better or if we can help them make money faster. And what these other folks are doing is they know that. They know that's the psychology. They're tapping into it without any real support. The rest of us who want to do it in a valid way, a credible way, we just... Same thing. Well, how is it... What is it we're selling, product or service, that helps people do one of those four things.

And if we say that and we are credible, we are trustworthy, we are passionate, we are genuine, we are authentic. Now the playing field is first level because we're offering the same. We're just saying, but we're going to help you do it your way. Not having to be dependent on doing it someone else's way that doesn't come naturally to you. And John, this is how I built a business. So I'm very happy with my business. It's growing all the time. And I'm sure you are too. And that's all I want to say is just focus on that. And if the others... I know. It just is what it is. Trust me. I'm very happy with how long it's taken me to get to where I am. Do I wish I maybe could have gotten here a little bit quicker?

Sure. But I don't think I'd appreciate it nearly as much if I did. And the learning lessons along the way, again, for me, it's kind of the thing I say to my daughter all the time. She's 12. And even since she was a little girl, everybody always asks the question, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I told her there's only one answer to that question. There's literally one answer to that question. And the answer is happy. That's what you want to be when you grow up. And for whatever happiness means to you, and I think that goes back to the core values conversation, which is you really have to understand what happiness means to you. And if that's monetary things, if that's owning certain things, okay.

Maybe that's a little bit of a shallow happiness and you might not understand it. But look, they say money doesn't buy happiness. That's correct in a lot of ways, but it sure as hell gets rid of unhappiness. So there's part of it to that. So I think it's... It's just... I fear we're moving towards idiocracy in a lot of ways in the sense that... And when I say idiocracy, like from an intelligence standpoint, like we got more dumb people and like it's getting... That type of thing. But it's also just from a value standpoint, it seems like we're unraveling quite a bit. And everybody's like kind of all over the place now. And I fear that the masses, that volume and that momentum of the other... I don't want to say the other side, but of a way that you and I might not appreciate as much is too big of a snowball right now to stop from going downhill.

And it may be that there's a lot of people who feel the way you and I do. And they're looking for the folks who feel the way we do. And when we can validate their feelings and let them know that we know the way they feel and we've been able to be successful, then we're focusing on our ideal audience. They're finding their ideal trainers and we can let those other folks do that. So, I always say, please, each person does what they're supposed to do. For me, what I focus on is what I get more of. So, I am not focusing on... I'm aware they're there. Believe me, I'm aware they're there. They want me to make sure that we all know they're there. Oh, yeah. And I am not focusing on it. I'm focusing on who am I supposed to serve and showing up every day to do that.

Yeah, I agree. I'm sure you're familiar with Simon Sinek, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. When I read about his infinite game approach, it resonated at every level with me because, you know, the concept of the finite game versus the infinite game. The finite game is I'm trying to beat you. You know, you and I, there's a game, there's baseball, basketball, whatever it is, there's a beginning and an end, there's rules. And I'm a winner, you're a loser type of thing. Whereas the infinite game, you're just trying to stay in the game. And that's always been my approach. It's funny because people always ask me about my competition and I'm like, I don't know. And they're like, what do you mean you don't know who your competition is?

I'm like, I mean, I could name some people. I don't really know the details of what they do, nor do I care. Because I've always said, if I lose to competition, it's either one, because I didn't, I wasn't good enough effectively. I needed to learn how to sell better, or it wasn't the right fit. And I probably shouldn't have gotten that business in the first place. So it's not that I lost to them. It's lost. I lost to myself or I lost to not a good fit. And I thought it was. And so that infinite game mindset, I think gives you a lot more comfort and a lot less stress going back to, you know, the whole point of what you're saying is, you know, getting out of your comfort zone introduces anxiety, introduces stress, which then parlays to the person that you're talking to.

So therefore inherently creates a stressful environment. But if you're playing the infinite game, you don't really care about that anxiety or the stress about other people. You're just trying to figure out how you can get better every day. Exactly. So well said. Perfect. So look, I think going back to values and perspective, it's pretty obvious that we align. So I think we could continue to kind of unpack this for hours, if you will. And I'm sure there's a lot more to unpack in your book. But in the interest of time and wrapping things up here, any last things that either highlights in the book or points that you want to leave people with to make sure that they're at least paying attention to them?

Well, we've covered so much of it that I'm going to say just a reminder that always know your audience and your audience is very much like you. If that's what makes sales easy, when you are able to talk with people who have had similar experiences to you, but they don't know your product yet, build that audience, keep growing that audience, keep having conversations with that audience, learn more about them, do research, then come back and have conversations to let them know you paid attention to them. People don't care how much you know, they only want to know how much you care, very famous quote. And then you'll know when there's enough trust built up between the two of you, that you can make an offer, you just make the offer, just make the suggestion.

And they'll say, yes, I want to look into that. But if you start with the suggestion first, it's not going to feel like it's a suggestion, it's going to feel like a sledgehammer, and you won't get to engage with that audience. You won't get those satisfying conversations, and you won't get the sale. It's funny on that point, you know, if you really think about it, has anybody ever been overly open to when you come to them with the, hey, can I make a suggestion? You know, like if I were to come to you say, hey, after you told me what your problem was, and all this other stuff, it's like, hey, can I make a suggestion here? Like, that never comes across as Oh, yes, I'd love your you know, unless I came to you and asked for it, unless I say, Hey, could you give me a suggestion on what to do here.

But if you're proactively telling me what you think is important based on limited knowledge without really engaging with me, it ends up being a usually a nice sales killer, if you will, then then somebody then opening up the door to have somebody trust you a little bit. Yeah, I love how you said that. Awesome, Stacey. Well, again, the book is called selling from your comfort zone, the power of alignment marketing. Where is that Amazon, the best place to send people? Or do you have the website you want to send? Well, it's Kindle, Audible, every place that paperback books are sold in the world. My website, where you can also get a free course called Go for Yes, or eight steps to a sale. I have a couple of free courses for people to delve deeper into this before you buy the book if you want.

And my website is Stacey, S-T-A-C-E-Y-N-A-N-N-H-A-L-L.com, StaceyAnnHall.com. Easy to remember. And just go to courses or go to books. There's two tabs there. Get the free courses or check out the excerpt of the book before you buy it. And no risk. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Stacey, for coming on and sharing some of your knowledge here. And again, appreciate the alignment of values throughout this conversation. So thanks for taking the time here. I've appreciated being here very much. And I admire what you're doing in the world very much. We do notice, John. Thank you. I appreciate that. And everybody for listening. Thank you so much, as usual. And like I always say at the end of all these podcasts, go out there and make somebody smile today.

Because no matter how bad you think your day is going or how bad you think it went, if you made somebody smile today, you know you had a good day. And the world needs a lot more of that right now. So thank you all very much. And I'll see you on the other side. Thank you so much for your time today and listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. With your support and our incredible guests, we're one of the top sales podcasts in the industry with over a million downloads. And I can't thank you enough. To keep the momentum going, if you could go to your favorite podcast platform and leave us a five-star review, I would greatly appreciate it. In return, I will answer any question that you have on Instagram.

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