A Journey of Survival with Roderick Jefferson

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests who I truly respect and I think make a positive impact on the world around us. And there's nobody better than my good friend Roderick Jefferson. Roderick is somebody who has been all up and down sales enablement and wrote the book Sales Enablement 3.0. But that's not what we talked about on this podcast. We talked about what he went through recently. About six months ago, my good friend Roderick, who I've known for years, had a stroke. And he calls himself the top 2% because he had a stroke when he was sleeping. And for those of you who don't know, 98% of people who have a stroke when they're sleeping do not wake up from that stroke.

And Roderick did. And he fought all the way through it. And his perspective now and the way he looks at things is just so refreshing. And in a time where I think we all need to kind of reassess what's important to us, this is such an inspirational conversation. I mean, we talked about how he looks at things of faith, family, friends, and fun. And if it doesn't fit into one of those buckets, he doesn't do it. Talked about the importance of asking for help and, you know, when personally and through your health, but also in your job and everything else. Listening to your gut. Asking questions of people as opposed to making statements. And focusing on what you can control and the impact that you have.

And last point, you know, he talked about his three-point question when having conversations with people, which is, do you want me to listen, coach, or fix? And not assuming what other people want from you. So this conversation was a breath of fresh air. And if you aren't moved by his journey here, I don't know, I don't know what will move you. So enjoy the conversation as much as I did here and really try to think to yourself what you can do to really level set on in today's world and make a difference in other people's lives like Roderick has made in mine. What's happening, make it happen, family? Big shout out to our partners today, Gong, Proposify, Vidyard, and Chili Piper. Gong's data is more than valuable.

It's cornerstone in any organization looking to collect the data that's going to tell them where they can improve and where they need to spend their time making changes. Proposify is one of my favorite teams of all time. What they do is they make the proposal and contract processes easy for the sender and the recipient. And who can't benefit from that being a great experience, right? Vidyard makes it easy for people to use videos anywhere. No matter whether you're sending videos in email or on social media, posting them somewhere or sending them in a DM, Vidyard has got you covered. Our friends at Chili Piper are so much fun to be around. They make it easy for people to get on your calendar.

And every sales rep has got to have this function locked in. It's one of the most important things we can do as a seller. How can I get you on my calendar easily? Chili Piper can make that happen for you. Be sure that you're checking out all these great tools. And now let's pass it over to John to find out who's joining him today. See you soon, everybody. I feel extremely fortunate to be sitting here with my good, great friend, Roderick Jefferson, my brother from another mother. How are you today, my friend? First of all, man, I'm honored to be here with you. And I echo with so much more than just a great friend. You have become family, John. And if I don't say it enough, man, I appreciate it.

I love you like family better than some of the people in my family. So to answer your question, how am I doing, man, I am feeling fantastic. You've seen the journey of where it's been and where I am today. And I'm sure we'll kick into that just a little bit, but I'm feeling great. I'm starting to feel like myself again. I can't tell you how happy that makes me feel because for everybody out there listening, you know, we almost lost my good friend Roderick here and he fought way through it. And, and I'd love to, I'd love to chat with you about that journey, man, because I think when we, you know, I think COVID reset a lot of things for a lot of people on priorities and all that other stuff, but you got punched right in the mouth with something that puts you in a position to really assess what's important in life.

And, and, and, you know, you've done so much good over your career in general. I'd love to how, know how this, this experience has reshaped you. So let's back up a little bit, um, on, and just give everybody, you know, we don't gotta get into the gory details here, but give everybody the details. I'll keep it high level. Um, it was October 28th and of last year, and I woke up feeling odd every day. I usually call my wife and chat with her and, you know, kind of set the schedule what's going on. And it was odd. I just didn't feel right, but I couldn't feel, put my finger on it. And so I was saying to her and what I heard myself say was, Hey, what's going on? What's on your calendar today? And what she heard was turns out during my sleep, I had a stroke, a massive stroke.

And I feel incredibly blessed to even still be here. I'm part of the, what's called the 2% club. Um, 98% of people that have strokes during their sleep never wake up. You don't get a warning. You just kind of check out and that's it. So had the stroke and found out that the stroke was actually based upon congestive heart failure that wasn't moving fluid around properly and created a clot and it floated up to my brain and literally shut my brain off. Now I didn't get as bad as some where I didn't lose my arms and my legs and, you know, like half my body went away. But what it hit for me as a keynote speaker and a guy that lives, as you know, on words and adjectives and nouns as a speaker, I couldn't speak.

I literally started out stuttering really bad. Then it got to a point to where I literally lost my voice and had to go through speech therapy and all those fun things. And, and you watched it end to end of what it was like. And at one point it was, it was impossible to actually understand clearly what I was saying with that, that stroke and it shut me down completely and talk about reevaluating life. It's not just about work. It's what's important in life anymore and what has to change. And when I see right now, I'm talking about immediately, if not yesterday. And, and, and I'd love to, I mean, I can't, first of all, 2%, that, you know, that's scary as shit, but it's also quite empowering. A lot of ways, man, that, that, that you are in that 2% and, and you, I'm in that 2% and you woke up.

Um, and you know, going back to the, the, of reassessing and reevaluating. I mean, I think a lot of us have that, oh yeah, I need to change. Oh yeah. I need to get in shape and, oh yeah. But, but, you know, I'm busy right now, but I got other things to take care of right now. What is, I mean, you, you've been forced to, right? And, and look, you've been always a pretty introspective guy. I think you've always had a, had a good view of the world and, and what's important and stuff. What has this experience taught you though, about, about what is really important. And, and also how you can manifest that into still living a life of purpose and, and making money. Right. Cause part of this to me is like, you could easily say, you know what, fuck it.

I ain't doing shit anymore. I'm going to live and I'm just going to go and be with people and have friends and fuck this whole work thing. Right. But, but we all got to make a living, you know what I mean? And we all have to, we all have to get up there and pay those bills to be able to live whatever that life is. So how, with that as context, how has it changed your view on things and how you make decisions? Man, things have shifted in more ways than I can ever explain. Before it was when we all have this thought, you know what, nobody's guaranteed tomorrow. Do what you've got to do right away. Don't push things off that you can do right now. Until you get into a point where you realize that today could literally be my last day.

Now I got in real quick, the average heart squeezes, I was explaining to you, John, at about 65, 75%. When it gets down to 20%, it stops and it closes the show. When I had my stroke and I went in the hospital, I was at 23%. I was 3% away from not ever having a conversation with you or anybody else in this world. So what does it do? It makes you reassess everything, relationships, friendships, conversations, promises, calendars, all of that. It hit me and it comes down to four things now. Faith, family, friends, and fun. Anything outside of those four, I don't have any time for. I really don't. And as it is, you know, when you have a stroke, it's literally brain damage. You start losing memory, you start losing concentration.

Here's a simple example. I was sitting with my wife the other day and I was like, you know, I'm looking at this thing in front of me. And so what I do now is when I can't remember what something is called, I don't even try to fake the funk anymore, man. I'm just like, hey, kind of had a stroke. I need some help on this, right? Don't even try to bullshit because I can't. So I said, it's that thing that has the numbers on it that tells you where you are in the daytime or the nighttime. And she looks at me with just the scariest look I've ever had in my life. And she said, babe, it's called a clock. And I went, that's it. It's a clock. So even the most basic things that you took for granted changed when I couldn't walk and I couldn't get to the bathroom by myself, you realize how far your couch is from your bathroom.

And then you start negotiating with yourself. You're like, do I really have to pee that bad? Nah, I'm all right for probably another hour. Or you know what? I need some help. And then the other thing I learned is it's not just okay, it's necessary to ask for help, man. It really is. And what you thought was important and imperative may not even hit the radar anymore when life changes. And then I also realized that if you don't listen to your body and you don't take time to slow down, it will do it for you and you're not going to like the outcome. No. And it fires warning shots, man. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if you thought you found some of the warning shots, but for me, you know, I'm 46 now and, and there's been a few warning shots being like high blood pressure all of a sudden, and all of a sudden this happened, you know, and I'm being a lot more conscious these days of my personal health.

Cause I have, I pretty much ignored it. I was blessed with a body that took a beating. I don't know about you, but you know, both of us, we've talked it through the amount of damage that I've done to my body over the years. There is no medical reason that either of us should still be here right now to be honest with all the things that we've done. And, and you know what, to your point, there are warning shots. I felt off for a while. I went to the doctor and they actually diagnosed me with, um, double pneumonia. Oh, I told you in both. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And first it was bronchitis. And so they hit me with the Z-Pak, all the things they normally do, but nothing was getting any better.

And actually things were getting worse. Right. And so that's what I was like to my doctor. I don't think it's bronchitis. And, and I've had pneumonia, double pneumonia, and this ain't it. And I said, how about I go see a cardiologist? And I went in and well, we were scheduled to go in. And unfortunately the stroke hit before I got the chance to go to the cardiologist. Man. I mean, and that's where you, again, listen, it's funny, not funny. You know, the more and more. It's funny, interesting, not funny. Ha ha. No, it's definitely funny, interesting. When I, well, when I say funny, it's, you know, going back and being your own advocate and for help. I think those are two really important things that we, that I want to dive into.

One is being your own advocate. And I mean that in personal, professional, and health-wise. Oh, 100%. In all of those categories. I mean, if we think about health-wise, I remember my mom was, she was in the hospital for a few Christmases back, right? And she had diverticulitis and we didn't know what it was. And so we had to bring her to the emergency room and I couldn't go because I had to be with my mom, my sister and my nephew and my, so my wife went with her. And my mom, you know, at the time she was 74 years old or whatever it was. And she's sitting there in the emergency room, nobody's paying attention to her. And she's like, same thing, starts babbling. And her temperature was like 104 degrees, 105 degrees for a hundred and, for a 75 year old woman, right?

That your brain starts frying. And I remember my wife literally, like the nurses were like, oh no, everything's okay. And she's like, everything's okay. She's a 75 year old woman with 105 degree temperature. Get the fucking doctor. And she literally went out. There's nothing good about okay right now. No. And she went out into the hallway and started screaming. And finally a doctor came running and was like, what? And then she told her and the doctor was like, holy shit. If, if that hadn't happened, my mom wouldn't be here today. And so being an advocate for yourself is huge to your point. Like, this isn't right. Let me go, like, we should do that now. You got, you got, you know, cut before that, but that, that advert, how do you, how important it is?

And, and how do you, let's, let's have that gut conversation, right? Like trust in your gut. Cause your gut's not always right, but sometimes it is. So how do you look at your gut telling you something's not right or something's not wrong in context of what you had, but also in context of how people live their lives? Yeah. Um, I'll speak congruently about both of those. Most of the time your gut is accurate. You know, your body and you know, when something is off and when something is off and someone else is telling you that is, this is normal. My response is it might be normal for you, but I know my body and this definitely ain't normal. I say the same thing in business. And I've said this for years and you've heard me say it over and over.

If you don't advocate for yourself and you take ownership of your health, of your life and your professional career, nobody else is going to do it for you. Nobody has the vested interest in any of those three things as you do. So you got to stick up and step up and speak on your own behalf. Let me talk professionally, professionally for a second. You feel like you're killing it and you're due or you've earned a promotion. How many people have actually written up, and I don't mean a laundry list, but what I've done to impact our customers, our prospects, and our overall revenue stream and put that in front of your sales leader? Not just your numbers. Very few. Not just your numbers. I've exceeded quarter.

Not just your numbers. I'm talking about your impact now because your number is just a laundry list. But the impact, what have I done to help them either increase productivity and efficiency or decrease, mitigate, excuse me, pain? That's when you start truly advocating for yourself. In life, whether it's with a significant other, it's with a family member, it's your inner circle, your tribe. How many times have you felt like, you know what? I probably should say something, but I don't really want to rock the boat. I don't really want to talk about politics. I don't really want to talk about, you know, race relations. Oh, I know that was an off-color joke and it probably shouldn't have been said, but I don't want to be the one that looks like I'm being hypersensitive.

Forget that. If you don't, no one else will. And sometimes you have to speak for those people that either aren't in the room or don't have an opportunity or a voice or even a vote to say that. Too many times we've seen it. And you know, it was me early in my career. I was like, eh, I don't want to really want to vote. I'm trying to move up the ladder. I'm trying to, you know, get to that next level professionally. And what I realized was while I was being selfish and only thinking about me, what I was doing was actually pushing other people further back from ever being able to move up. And that day, and you and I've had this conversation before, John, and that day I decided this, allow me to be the floor, not the ceiling for other people that either aren't in the room or don't have the same level of voice or vote that I have.

I love that. I love that. I mean, I mean, you and I, we'd like you said, we've had this conversation before, right? A hundred times, if not more. This tattoo, right? That my dad had written on his in hand, his own handwriting on his desk. So when you're a customer privilege, equality feels like oppression. And the whole point of that is understanding what privilege actually means, you know, and I don't think it's, I don't think it's right anymore just to sit back to your point and say, well, you know, that's not my problem or I'm not like that. So it's not that big. You know what I mean? Like that off color comment, like I feel uncomfortable with the off color comment, but it's not really me.

So why should I say anything bullshit? There's you, right? It's you because when you're not in a room, it's you with a whole different, not so funny joke. Yeah, exactly. And so being able to stand up for yourself, but also stand up for others and taking that chance. And, and look, I think there's, you know, if we kind of took a break on the podcast for a little while and I come back on it and I, and I said, now I only want to talk to people who, who bring light into my life and have good values and all that other stuff. And I talk a lot about, you know, how core values mean more than everything right now and, and looking for those and you got to stay true to them. And if you're going to enjoy this, this, this journey, we're all on because the minute you, the minute you, you don't stay true to those core values is when you start asking all those questions that you don't want answered as far as who you are and what you're all about and why you did or didn't do something.

So I think that accountability factor of, of listening to your gut, but also speaking from your gut in a constructive way. Cause that, I think that's the challenge that I think a lot of younger reps or, or individuals have is well, to your point early in our careers, like who am I to shake the boat now for me, you know, I grew up here in Boston. I'm a mass hole. I got no problems being like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? Like, and I've almost gotten fired before because I've called bullshit on whatever it is, but I'm a young white six foot male that, that is driven off a lot more than I could. Right. A hundred percent. I mean, that's the privilege, right? Like I don't, I was pulled over by a police officer the other day and I wasn't worried about getting shot.

Like that's privileged. Like those are the types of things that I didn't recognize. And so I was loud, but what about Let me speak to the young, the young and upper comers, young and up and coming, sorry, people right now, there's a way to get this across without being threatening. Right. And I learned this early on in my career. Ask a question instead of make a statement. Hey, is this, did it feel weird with that, that joke that went off or was the, I was the only one that felt that way. Right. See what I mean? As opposed to, you know what? That was just dead wrong. We shouldn't actually do shit like that. Instead go, am I the only one that felt this way? And you know what happens? It puts a mirror up to people and they have to look at that mirror and go, wait, did I feel weird too?

Yeah, I actually did. And because you've opened the door, you've opened it up in a non-threatening manner that now opens things for a conversation instead of a statement that would be a confrontation. I love that, man. And it's funny because I equate that to a challenger sale, right? So you know, challenger sale, right? So it always cracked me up challenger sale as far as like, I'm going to challenge you, right? Like basically what you, you know, for those of you listening, you haven't heard of challenger sale. It's kind of book of the month club back about 10 years ago. And the mentality is, look, Roderick, you make this decision once a year. I help people make it every day. Let me tell you where people make good decisions and bad decisions.

And I mean, nine times out of 10, that comes across as you are an arrogant asshole. Tell me what, what, right. Especially if you're talking to someone way more senior than you. Well, that's a whole different story. They're like, I got belts and shoes older than you. Right? Exactly. So, but the way I've been able to challenge people is exactly what you just said there is ask them questions to get them to think. Because if I can get you to pause for a second and think about something differently than you were thinking about it before, now I got you, right? Now I'm challenging you, but I'm making it to your point, your idea, not mine, right? It's almost like that movie Inception. Like I want to plant that seed and let it grow.

So that's your thought, not mine, but I'm going to ask that question that's going to lead you down that path. And that's a beautiful way of approaching it. And it's an opportunity to learn too, right? And what's the old adage, JB? With competence comes confidence, right? And you get that competence from the answer that comes back or the experience that happens in that room after you ask that question. And then the next time you're far more confident to do it again and again and again. Yep. Absolutely, man. God, I love that. And I, so I think that, you know, being able to handle adversity, being able to understand, you know, stand up for yourself and advocate for yourself. And then when you do, so let's, let's now put the decision-making lens.

You said right now it's the three, it's the four Fs for you, right? When you, when you're now faced with a decision for yourself, as far as what's important, what the focus on business, who to, who to leave in your life, who to take out of your life. Is there a process you follow now that has evolved from before that helps you make better decisions based on what you are? Yes. I'm far more simplistic and far more direct on that. If it doesn't fit in one of those four buckets, I'm just not doing it. And I'm going to say it in a nice way. And I don't feel like I have to say yes to as many things as I used to say yes to. One of the things is mentorship. You know, I do a lot of mentoring, but I got to a point to where I literally felt like I was drowning and I couldn't breathe.

I want to help more than, than most probably just because I've had so much given to me, but I figured I had to cut off a certain number, right? Otherwise I'm no good to those that are inside of my tribe. If my tribe is any and everybody, and I'm not trying to say, Oh, it's exclusive. You want to be a part of, no, it's not even about that at all. It's if I bring you inside and you know me well enough, I'm going to give you everything I have personally and professionally. Well beyond. I can't do that for everybody, but I can do that for a few people. Another thing is making decisions on who's going to be in my circle personally. And you look around and you go, there's a lot of people that if you're honest with yourself, they're just people that you used to know, right?

There are a lot of people that they're in your circle just because they're comfortable. It's comfortable because you've known them for so long. And I look at things, especially even on social media, right? You know, I've got my Facebook, I've got my, um, IG and I've got my, um, LinkedIn. And I learned from you, each of those serves a different purpose and everybody should not and Twitter included. Everybody shouldn't be on all of those because here's why not everything. And my mom used to say everything ain't for everybody. It's as simple as that. There's certain things I can say on Facebook because these are my friends and family, right? I'm not going to go drop that on IG. I'm not going to go drop that on LinkedIn.

And it's not that it's something bad. It's just, I'm talking to my folks, right? And I have earned the right to be able to say that to them. And it may be taken out of context in one of the other social media platforms. The other thing I've learned lastly is, man, and this is the point that, that if I can't, you don't learn anything else from me. It's this social media has made all of us less social. It's a fact. I now pick the phone up. I have a three and I've done it with you. I got a three max text at three. I'm picking the phone up and I'm like, look, apparently we got way more to say than my fingers can handle today. And so why don't we just have a conversation and chop it up and catch up?

What's up everybody. I know you're enjoying this conversation. John does a great job with genuine curiosity on these episodes and our guests consistently bring the heat. We want to take a moment here and let you know that you've got an opportunity, an opportunity to become better than you were yesterday. And you can do so by gaining access to all of JB sales content. All of their training tips, techniques, tactics, and takeaways can be yours for $1 a day. $365 for the year gets you annual access to everything, including our private Slack channel for members only, which you get access to all of us directly. A hundred percent of the time, 24 hours a day. And then at the same time, you're going to get access to our bi-weekly ask me anything sessions where you can bring real deals to the table and get the help that you need where you need it.

This is very, very important. Sales reps that invest in themselves are often found at the tops of their leaderboards. Join us today and get the help you need to become the seller that you deserve to be. That URL one more time is joinjbsales.com. Let's get back to the show with JB and our guest for this week. I've said it before, you know, I'm almost forcing positivity these days because of all the negativity out there. I'm back to my gratitude journal. And what I'm doing is once a day, I'm reaching out to somebody who I haven't talked to in a little while. And if it is just a text, sometimes it's just like, Hey man, I've been thinking about you, right? Pay it forward or calling to your point, calling them and being like, yo, haven't talked to you in a while.

Let's chat. Right. And that just that act alone. Cause to your point, I mean, social media has definitely divided us more than it is. You know, it's, it's created communities and all these other different things. It's great to catch up with old friends, but here's the other piece. We both know social media is showing what you want people to see and know. Of course it's, it's not real. It's not reality. Right. Especially on, on the broader pieces. And you just kind of go, wait a minute. Now I just talked to you and I saw you the other day and I know you were struggling and having a rough day mentally, but you're on social media, you're laughing and, and you know, you're doing the little latest Tik TOK dance and whatnot.

And everybody thinks it's all gravy, but it's not. And so I'm at a point now and I call it agent stage where the same person you see me when I step in front of you is the same person you're going to get on social media. You're on all of my, all of my platforms. You've seen me say, you know what, this is a rough day. I'm just not feeling right. Am I the only one feeling this? Or you know what? I could use a little low because today it's, it's a rough day. I'm not going to put that out on Tik TOK. I'm not going to put that out on, on LinkedIn or whatnot, but inside my house, if I can't be real with you inside my house, you're not part of my family that should be in my house. That's, I mean, authenticity right now is, is it's sad that it's a competitive advantage.

It's at an all time low. It really is. It really is. And it's, and it's sad to watch that because, because of exactly that point, everybody's putting out this front that everything's perfect when everybody knows anything, everything ain't perfect. I mean, you, you, you watch me on social. I talk about all my warts, you know what I mean? Like, like all sorts of crazy shit that's going on because people respect and appreciate that as opposed to being painted this rosy color. And I think this translates to everything, your job, your boss, your customers. Like we put on this front, like we're perfect and our products are the best and, and we're the, you know what I mean? And all this other shit.

And it's just like, tear all that shit down. Tell people exactly where it is. Life is not about unicorns and rainbows, man. No. Right. It's, it's, you're going to go through rough patches and how do you get through it? And I've realized that more people have reached out to me and said, Hey, I needed that, or I learned how to get through that. Or I watched you because you got through it. I feel like I can now. And I don't think I'm just some icon that people should watch. Nah, I'm a regular dude that every day, something happy happens. And every day something shitty happens. And it's a matter of how do I balance those? And then you have to be real and go, is it imbalanced because of me? Or is it imbalanced because of what I call my tribe?

And if so, it's time to kind of thin out the herd, man. You know, so fat, so you know, fat Joe, right? The rapper. Oh yeah. I was watching an interview with him and you know, he was balling out for a while and he had like 40 in his crew, like 40. It was kind of like MC hammer back in the day. Like he would show up 30, 40 and would pay for everything. Right. And a certain point he was looking around being like, these motherfuckers, like, are these really my friends? And so what he did one day is he called them up and said, yo, all of them and said, I'm dead broke. I lost everything. Right. And, and he went through this process and he said, all but four of the 40 stuck around. Wow. So only four people were like, doesn't matter to me, man.

I don't give a shit if you're broke or not. We're still boys. We're still hanging out. 36 people who were pretending to be his boys, never talked to him again, never emailed him, never texted him, never called him afterwards. Right. And that, and I think, and that's a hard thing to do is, is to thin out that tribe. And I wanted to ask you, you know, you talk about saying no to a lot of stuff now, right. And being a lot more comfortable because you got to stay focused on what's a priority and who you can really help. How do you say no? How do you say no in a way that doesn't offend people? Uh, and I know it's kind of situational based, but do you have an approach to, to say and no, uh, when you want to help and you don't want to offend somebody for doing that?

Yeah. And it's, it's actually a way that nobody can walk away feeling bad and nobody can say anything negative about it. It's a real simple statement. I love you to death, but I'm at a point where I've given so much that I don't have anything else to give right now. And it wouldn't be fair to you. And I leave it at that. I like it. And people go, I feel you. I understand. Cause everybody gets to a point. And I even laughed. I go, you know, I realized back when we used to fly and you and I flow so much, we could probably stand up and give the announcements. Right. But what do they say in the announcement, John? Put your mask on first before anybody else's because I cannot fill up from an empty cup.

Can't do it. Can't give it. You can't let somebody else drink from it either. You can't. You know what I mean? And I think that's where I think you and I have a very similar mentality of, I feel blessed, uh, for, for where I am and what I've been given the opportunity to. And I, and I want to give back. I want to, but at a certain point, like if you don't focus on filling your own cup, you, you will not have anything to give back. And then you'll start doing things that perpetually, you know, that actually spiral in the wrong direction because people are going to be like, wait, Oh, he half-assed it. Or, you know, he didn't share, you know what I mean? He didn't, that wasn't what, that wasn't worth it.

Right. I want that interaction to be those people that I do interact with be like, damn, you know, like, yeah, I got, I got all of that. I got everything that he had to give. Right. And, and if you don't, and people know whether it's your relationships, your, your quote unquote brand, whatever it is, your brand is based on a certain thing. And when you change on that, people see it right away. So you don't have to front with people. They know. And, and, you know, it's something just hit me as you were talking on it. And that is, that just because you say no, doesn't mean I don't care. I'm saying no, because I do care. I do care. Yeah. And, and it's funny because, you know, I care and I think care is an important thing to pay attention to, but it was, what do we care about?

Right. Like sometimes I'm going to be straight up. Sometimes people reach out to me and ask me a question and no, I don't like, and this is going to come off wrong. I don't care about you. Right. I care about myself and the others that I am trying to support. So that's why I'm saying no, it's not that I don't like you. It's not, it's just that right now I have to focus my energy in other areas. And I think having a reason, I think one of the things I've, I've come to realize is how powerful it is to have a reason for whatever you're doing. Always have, always have a why. Always have a why. Why is way so much more important than what? Exactly. And so sometimes I'll even explain to people, I'll say no, but, and give them the reason why.

So not just, you don't want to just say no, right? That's just harsh. Then you come off, sound like an asshole, but if you're like, well, no, and let me explain to you why. The reason I'm saying no is because right now my cup is empty, man. And if we got into engagement, you wouldn't get all of me. And I, and you would actually come up with a negative perception of me and I would actually hurt more than I would help right now. And it wouldn't be fair to you. Right. Right. And I think that's the important part is that you have to look at it from both those perspectives. The reason is in both our benefits for this scenario or for whatever it is. And then I find that most people are really understanding of that.

Really? You know what I mean? Once you give them that reason, but if you don't give them that reason, then they question everything. Oh, what man, I just saw you doing a one-on-one with so-and-so. But you can do it for so-and-so, but you can't do it for me. Okay. I see how we roll. It's like, no, actually you don't see. What you don't see is that's the only one of three that I'm doing this with or X number. Right. And I think the other piece that just hit me as you were talking that just came, I mean, light bulb just hit me. And that is focus on the things that you can touch and impact. Everything else is just noise. And man, there is a lot of noise in the world right now. Personally and professionally.

Focus on the things that you can touch and impact. And that may be people, it may be situations, may be processes, whatever it is. But if I can't impact and influence it, I kind of walk away from it for my own wellbeing. And there's something to be said. And I think everybody has a clear understanding and far more empathy around self-care right now of what we've gone through over the last couple of years. Yep. I mean, you got it, right? I shipped it to you. Absolutely. And I walk around with it every day. You already know. That coin, and for everybody who's listening, not people watching, but that coin, I got that effort attitude and how you treat people. Those are the things, right? Everything else is irrelevant in a lot of ways because if you can't control it, why, why let it, you know, I've thought about this a lot.

Like if you can't control it, why do you let it control you? Yeah. Cause there's so much out there that is, that is controlling me, right? Like, like if I let it, uh, you know, the economy, the climate, my boss, my, you know what I mean? All these different things are controlling me, but only really because I'm focused, I'm allowing them to control me versus focusing on what I can control and doing that everything. I mean, it goes back to the tactical stuff of, of reps complaining about something. It's like, you can't control that shit. Do your damn job and do it really, really well. Right. And then from there, whatever happens, happens. And you at least know you put your best effort into it.

Yeah. You, you can't determine if you're going to be moved up or promoted or you're going to get an increase. All you can do is, is do your best and then let that stand on its own. If that's not enough, then, and I'm saying professionally, if that's not enough, maybe you're in the wrong place. Yup. Right. I mean, it goes hand in hand with that. And that's that balance we started with, which is like advocating for yourself, right? You don't want to be always telling people how great you are, but you also don't want to just bury your head in the sand and just do your job. Because then it's like my dad, like my dad, he was a, you know, he was an electrical engineer and, um, he was the smartest cat I've ever come across in my life, but he would never advocate for himself.

Cause he always felt like he was so smart. His work would just speak for itself. And I would always talk to him. I'm like, dad, that's why like you were always at this role in the organization and never, you never got to the higher levels up because you never advocated for yourself. You always thought the work was it. And that's why like he was, you know, an engineer. And that's why engineers a lot of times get upset with sales reps because sales reps tend to advocate for themselves a lot more, right? It's like, Hey, look at me, look at all the stuff that I'm doing. And they're quote unquote promoting themselves, but there's a way to do that the right way without having to come across as an arrogant asshole.

And I guess how would you, you know, I know, you know, there's a lot of ways we could take this, but how do you advocate for your, let's go back to that one for a minute. Cause there's that fine line between ego and confidence. So how do you advocate, how do you advocate for yourself without coming across as arrogant without coming across as look at me or, you know, sometimes we react to try to promote ourselves because somebody else just got something that we didn't think was fair. And so now we jump up and say, well, look at all the shit that I've done. So how do you advise, and this isn't just, you know, younger sales, this is, this is leadership. This is management. This is, you know, whatever to advocate for themselves in a way that doesn't come across as arrogant.

Yeah. You can show the value of you without talking about you. And what I mean is let's go back to what we talked about earlier, instead of going and sharing a laundry list of I've done all these things and so-and-so has done and never compare yourself with anyone else. Cause you don't even understand what the situation is. Right. And you don't talk about, well, I've done all this 912 things. You know what? That doesn't mean that it was viewed as value. It just showed that you were busy. Don't confuse competency and success with busyness. So the way I recommend it is go back to a simple, basic thing, make it about the customer. I've done these things that either have shown value to close at a higher rate, right?

Or I've helped them to increase productivity and efficiency or slash mitigate or decrease pain outside of that. It doesn't matter. I don't care that you're the first one in the building and the last one out. Nobody cares. It just shows that you were busy. Right. And by the way, find advocates that will speak on your behalf about you. So you never have to talk about yourself. That's the same reason we do 360 degree, degree, um, reviews. You know, who you helped and how many times they've said to you, you know what? Slip this in. Hey, do you mind sharing that in email with my boss and my boss's boss? Guess what? You don't know that they don't know that you asked this person and you're not talking about yourself.

They're pubbing you up. No. And you hit on something important there too, which is part of that value, right? Is, is what you think is valuable versus what everybody else thinks or versus the person that you're, you know, providing that to sees as value, right? May just be busy work to them. Right. Well, sales tactically, like nobody gives a shit about your entire solution. They just give a part that's most relevant to them. Right. So that's what you should focus on. And, you know, and the story I got on this one is like my mom, you know, for years, I would like, I'm not a card guy. I don't like cards, right? Like when you send me a birthday card, I'll kind of look, I'll read it. Don't get me wrong, but I'll put those in the trash, right?

Yeah. My mom, on the other hand, she, she loves cards. She loves nice, you know, Hallmark cards with a really nice saying and a nice little handwritten note from her son, right? That's all she wants. Right. But for years I, I would, I would be super thoughtful with my gifts to her. Like I would travel and every, every time I would travel, I'd be like, Ooh, my mom would love this. Right. And then on her birthday, I would send her this gift and then I would get on the phone with her for like an hour or two and talk to her and all this other stuff. Right. So a couple of years back, um, dad, mom, sister, um, I, same thing. I give them all gifts, got an hour and a half on their calendars, you know, whatever, talk to them all day long or the birthdays, but I forgot to send a card.

And after the third one, my, my mom gets on the phone with me. She goes, um, is everything okay? And I was like, yeah, what, my, why do you ask? Everything's great. And she goes, well, you know, you're usually just so thoughtful with the cards that you send to me and your dad and your sister on your birthdays. And, and, and, and you didn't send any to us this year. And I'm just wondering if everything's okay. And I'm sitting there going, what? I'm like, my, you didn't get the cool ass thing that I spent hours thinking about. You didn't get that hour and a half conversation, but to a 75 year old woman who doesn't need anything from her son, other than a conversation and a nice little note, what I thought was value was not.

Yeah. And to her value was getting a card with a handwritten note from me. So I sit there, I'm like, my dumb ass, I could have, you know how much money and time I could have saved myself over the years? I could have just sent you a card. But you know what, the lesson I take away from that John is your currency isn't the same as someone else's. No, that's it. Her currency was just, I got a nice, because my son took enough time to go and find something that was sentimental for him. He took time to handwrite something out. All the other things were all just kind of icing on the cake where somebody else would have been like, eh, thanks for the card. So where's, where's the gift? Right? Comes down to currency.

And the same thing with your manager professionally. Their currency may not be the same. Your currency may be, I'm showing up early, I'm leaving late, I'm putting up a thousand jumpers in the gym, whatever it is. Their currency is, your numbers went up, or you're now someone that I can believe and trust, and you're now also a best practice share that I can put in front of the rest of the team and say, what you're going to show them is going to make you better. Learn what your boss's currency is. And you know what? Work with it. As it's been said, what's important to your boss should be imperative to you. And I, and I, again, I don't think that's just relevant to bosses. I think that's family, friends, everything else.

Like what's important to me, you know, like what's important and what's important to you. I'm going to share with you what's important to me and how I look at things and, you know, my priorities. And I want to hear from you. And hopefully as we go through this journey together, we can be on the same page of that stuff and we can help support each other, achieve those things. Right? Otherwise you tell me all these other things that are irrelevant to what I care about. And guess what that's going to do is that's going to frustrate you too, because you're going to tell me all these wonderful things that you think are so important. And I'm going to look at them like, I don't really give a shit about those.

And you're going to get mad about that. Even though you should have asked me what's important to me, as opposed to just shoveling it on me and tell me how great you are. There it is, John, you just hit something. You have to continually ask me because professionally situations change. Personally, age and stage and priorities shift. So just because I felt this six months ago, two months ago, one year ago, doesn't mean I'm a perfect example. What's important to me right now is not the same thing that would have been important to me six months ago. So you take some time to, it's as simple as I can put it, take time to have conversations, stop giving presentations, whether it's personally or professionally.

We all do that, right? We dive right in. And I want to say something for the leaders that are listening to this right now. And this is specifically for you. We all know that empathy and relationships are important. We all know that we can't peanut butter and try and treat all of our employees the same way. But what I've found that learns for me is ask a simple three-point question. Every time you start a meeting, ask this question. Do you want me to listen? Do you want me to coach? Or do you want me to fix? As simple as it sounds, it does two things. One, it tells that individual that this is all about them. And two, as leaders, we are infamous for diving into fixed mode. That's how we got to the leader position, right?

But most of the time, to be honest, I've realized from my teams, they don't need me to fix. They just need me to say, hey, listen, can I get this out of my head so it doesn't sound crazy? Or so I can say it to you before I go say it to someone so I don't look crazy or stupid? Or they say, you know what? I want you to coach. That says to me, you've done this before. I was going to go do this, but I may be at level seven and I may have missed three through five and you've done it before. Help me with this. Or the last is fix. Man, I have tried everything I know how to do. It's just not working. Oh, and let me say, Asterix, don't try this with your significant other. It doesn't go over too well.

Well, I was going to. Actually, for me, it has. Has it? To be straight. Well, and for the listen factor, because I'm a fixer. No, I'm talking about the fixed part. It doesn't go over too well. No, but just the asking, right? Because you come to me, it's just inherent. I don't know why. I don't know where. But when you come to me with a problem, my brain immediately clicks into how do I fix this problem? Here's an idea and here's an idea and here's an idea. But when you say that significant other, nine times out of 10, your significant other just wants you to listen. Absolutely. And I had to get in the habit of asking. So when my wife would come to me with something she wanted to vent about or a problem or whatever it is, because the reaction was always, oh, well, what about this?

And if you tried that, and then she would get frustrated with me basically saying, shut up. I don't want to hear your damn answers here. I just want to vent here. So because that would turn into an argument, because then I'd be like, what? You don't value? Why'd you come and talk to me like this? Why'd you come and talk to me about this? If you don't want to solve, right? And so we would get in arguments about it. And so now when she comes to me with something, I very quickly, I'm like, do you just want me to listen? Or do you want me, do you want my opinions about this? And she'll say, I just want you to listen. And then guess what? I shut my mouth and I just nod my head and I'm like, sorry, honey, that sucks.

You know, it's a win for everybody. She's like huge win for everybody. Because if you don't, then you'll get, especially personally, you'll get caught up because you'll go into fixed mode. I guarantee you most of us directly go into fixed mode because it validates us and our opinions, let's be honest and call it what it is. But when you listen, to me, the best way to show that you care about and respect someone, listen to what they have to say. And don't, don't jump in. Don't listen so that you can find a way to help fix because we've done that before to all of us just sit back and listen and also realize how hard it is to just listen and not say anything. And that's hard. Brutal. Brutal. I saw a Simon Sinek post on this one about listening and how legit just shut up and hold your opinions all the way until the end and then have a conversation if it's valid, but it is not easy to hold that back.

That takes practice. That takes thought that, that takes being very thoughtful and proactive with that mentality. Cause otherwise you'll fall. I fall into it all the time. If I don't have a check on myself to, to say, okay, shut up, John. It's, it's hard. And I always look at people that consider themselves servant leaders. And the first question I, and, and friends of mine, and I'll ask them a question when you're in a conversation, what percentage do you find yourself talking and what percentage are you listening? Cause that's servant leadership. When you're listening more than you're talking, that is self-discipline, like very few other things. Yes, indeed. Awesome, man. Well, look, I know you, I know you got a hard stuff coming up here and you and I could talk for days.

Um, by the way, I did get your, uh, your package. So thank you very much. Hope it's not a strategy. I'll be wearing this. I'll be wearing this on a few, uh, posts coming up here. I just got it today. Um, but look, man, um, I didn't know where, so one more piece is when you talk about being purposeful with the people you care about, you know, the only sticky note that's on my computer screen right now. What's that? The only sticky note. What's that say? Check on Roderick. It says check in on Roderick. And that's why I love you. That is why you're the only thing that's on here. Because when you, when, when I heard you were going through this, you know, there's people, right? There's people you reach out to, you're cool with and everything's fun.

And, but then you, but then you go wild and you don't check in with them. You don't say hi and you realize what they're actually going through. And, uh, you know, you going through what you're going through, uh, first of all, it's inspiring that you're through, that you're, that you're on the other side of it and you're moving in the right direction. I mean, I, I, I can't imagine what you've gone through. I've heard about it, but I can't imagine it because it's just, it's pretty infallible in a lot of ways. Um, and I feel blessed that, uh, that we're having this conversation and to have you in my life as my friend, man. We are family. We, we have talked, we have laughed, we have cried together.

To me, that's beyond the, oh, we're good friends. You are, and will forever be family to me. It's funny because I hear people go, oh, John Burroughs did this. And Jen, what about John Burroughs? And I kind of go, I don't really know that cat. Right. I mean, I, I know you professionally, of course we've done work together, but I always click in the back of my mind. I go, that's just my brother. That's how I see it. John's just family to me and will forever be no matter what. And thank you for checking on me. And I want to say this publicly. You don't understand the impact that you've had on me, not just the influence, John, but the impact that you have had on my life. And by doing what that sticky, sticky note says of just reaching out, you've heard me at my lowest point.

You've heard me in babbling, ugly, crying tears. What I haven't had a chance to say to you, and I want to say it publicly is you are a part of why I'm still alive. You helped push me to a point to when I was ready to give up. I was like, I can't, I can't. Thank you. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Where do you go with that? I know. I don't know. I don't know, but all, but I would, well, last piece on that, you know, it's funny how that direction, you know, and how it manifests itself in, in, in motivation and inspiration for people. Cause, cause I would say the same on the backend is, is you going through what you're going through has helped me through some shit too. Right. And help put some perspective.

I mean, I've gone through like, I, there's a few things I can't really, you know, I've been going through over the past year and a half that I haven't been able to talk out loud about, uh, as you know. Um, and you know, to me, it's all about perspective, right? It's all about perspective. I wake up and I'm like, Oh, you know, and it goes back to the privilege. It's like, I realized, yeah, no matter how bad my day goes, man, somebody else, somebody's praying for your worst day. Yeah, exactly. So that's why I wake up and feel genuinely appreciative for where I am and the people I'm around. And, uh, and, and again, one of them is you. And I can't thank you enough for that. Thank you, man. I'm honored.

And I am truly humbled and I am, and I'll use your word. I'm privileged to be inside your personal drive. I appreciate that, man. Look, um, uh, I mean, business-wise, uh, Roderick Jefferson, uh, sales enablement 3.0, killing it, all that stuff. Where do you want people to follow you though? Where, where do you want people to kind of get this part of your journey? Um, I always say to you, if you can't find me on social media, you're not really trying. Um, on Instagram, Roderick underscore J underscore associates on LinkedIn, find me at Roderick Jefferson. If you want to know about the book, want to listen to the audio book, I'd be honored. It's on Amazon. It's, it's. It's on audible. It's on kindle.

It's Kendall. It's everywhere that you wanted to look and it's sales enablement 3.0 is the name of the book. Thanks again, John, for the opportunity, for the honor of being able to catch up with my friend, my mentor at times and my brother. Thank you so much, man. Likewise. All right, brother. I will see you soon. And, uh, I will check in on you, continue to check in on you for, for all the right reasons now moving forward. I appreciate that. Thanks, my man. All right, my friend. Thank you. And for everybody listening, you all know what I say every single time. And I think now it's more important than ever. Go out there, no matter how shitty your day is, and go out there and make somebody smile today.

Because if you make somebody smile, no matter how shitty your day is, you know you had a good day and the world needs a lot more of that. So thank you all for listening. I'll see you on the other side. Thank you so much for your time today and listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. With your support and our incredible guests, we're one of the top sales podcasts in the industry with over a million downloads. And I can't thank you enough. To keep the momentum going, if you could go to your favorite podcast platform and leave us a five-star review, I would greatly appreciate it. In return, I will answer any question that you have on Instagram. Hit me up there at John M as in Michael Barrows with a video question or a DM, and I will get right back to you.

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