Melanie Fellay, Forbes 30, under 30 CEO on Leadership, Vision and Personal Values

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests who I truly respect and who I think make a positive impact on the world around us. And oh, man, did I love this conversation with my good friend Melanie Filet. She's the CEO over at Speckit. And we've had her on the podcast a couple of times. It's actually interesting. It's almost like every year we have her on and every time she gets funding, we have her on. She's 30 under 30 women CEOs on Forbes, which is absolutely bananas. She just got her Series B for $45 million and is going from here. So she is a wealth of information.

And quite honestly, I'm pretty jealous of her for being where she is at the stage of her life. And we talk a lot about values and vision and how she's had to change herself as a leader at the different stages of her organization and how she's had to focus on her personal values and the impact they've had on the company values, which is something I'm personally going through right now. And so a lot of this that you'll hear is me trying to figure out my journey by interviewing people who I think have done it really, really well. And she is one of them. So we talk about the pressure that she has being a woman leader and being a young woman leader. And as her growing up, she didn't have a lot of role models in business to look up to mirroring the type of leader she wanted to be and why she's trying to be that leader now and the pressure that she feels for that, but how she manages it and the stress around it.

And also how she's just dealing with using her voice to support certain causes that she chooses and the challenges of picking which ones. So this is jam-packed with insights of leadership, of vision, of values. And I absolutely loved it. I hope you enjoyed as much as I do. What's happening, Make It Happen family. Big shout out to our partners today, Gong, Proposify, Vidyard, and Chili Piper. Gong's data is more than valuable. It's cornerstone in any organization looking to collect the data that's going to tell them where they can improve and where they need to spend their time making changes. Proposify is one of my favorite teams of all time. What they do is they make the proposal and contract processes easy for the sender and the recipient.

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See you soon, everybody. So Melanie, how have you been? You're in the Bahamas right now. You've been there since January. I am so insanely jealous. So just tell me how you've been recently because we haven't caught up in a while. Yeah, good to see you. Thanks for having me back for our annual episode. It's like every time you guys be flunging, you got to come back. It has been annually and at the beginning of the year, funny enough, but no, it's always fun to go back and listen and hear how things have evolved. But no, I've been really great. We've definitely been through a lot of growth. I think like this time last year when I was on the podcast, we probably had something around like 40 or so employees.

And now we just crossed 160. So that's a lot of people and a huge, huge portion of those in the last six months. So it's been, you know, just an incredible time, like bringing on a bunch of team members that we've needed for so long and like seeing all that creative energy being infused. And of course, with any startup, you know, the growing pains of having to, you know, really take that step up where you're not just, you know, gradually growing. It's like, hey, we just brought on funding. We've got some pretty ambitious schools. We're releasing these new products. We need to bring on, you know, 50 people in the next two quarters. Like that's a big change to the way that your organization is structured and how your leadership team is operating.

And so have definitely been going through that kind of growing pain, growing pains that come with scale, but it's been a lot of fun. And honestly, like, I'm just grateful for the people that we get to work with every day. And for me personally, it's been nice coming home here. And normally my home office is in Denver, which I absolutely love Denver. We have our HQ there. But I figured for the winter, I'd go somewhere that I could spend a little bit more time in the sun. And the East Coast has been a huge benefit for me personally. So the Bahamas on the East Coast has been a huge benefit. Let's make sure we're clear here. You don't want to come to Boston in the winter to enjoy your time. But the Bahamas, I'll take that.

Fair enough. Fair enough. And it's home for me. You know, my parents, I went to high school here. My parents live here in South. It's been great. I remember last year, we were in Aruba for two months and it was just the best thing I could have ever done, right? Because January, I like the seasons. I do. But the winters kill me. You know, again, mental health, that type of stuff, just being outside. I mean, you talk a lot about taking that year and just being in nature. And actually, you know what? You're going to be very proud of me, Melanie. You're going to be very proud of me. Do you know what I'm doing? Tell me. Do you know what I'm doing? I leave on Sunday. You know what I'm doing? No, tell me.

I am going to Sedona for three days and all by myself. I've never done this before in my life. And I'm going, it's Sedona Soul Adventures. And it's this thing where, you know, there's this person who helps coordinate and understands like, what are you trying, what are you looking for? What are you trying to do? And then understands your story and where you are and then picks different pieces things to have you go through. So for instance, there's like a vision quest, there's a soul cleansing, there's a palm reading. So, you know, I'm going now for three days with a completely open mind. Cause I do, you know, I'm of the level of spirituality. I'm definitely a spiritual person, but there is a level.

I'm kind of like, all right, there's a little foo-foo stuff, but I am actually going to say, nope, there's no such thing as foo-foo stuff. I am wide open to what's going to happen here. So I'm going to take three days and focus on myself for a little bit here. And I thought you might appreciate that. I do. I love that. Oh, that's so important. I mean, as, as you know, I'm, I'm big in doing those kinds of like two to three day retreats through my business coaching program, which, you know, I think whether, is it in a group or is it you? Is it an individual? Oh, wow. I can't do this. I cannot do this with somebody else. I will, I will not do this. Interesting. Well, I'm definitely excited to hear how it goes.

I've only ever done it in a group setting, which is, which is interesting because it's one of the best ways to practice vulnerability where you have to really get clear in your, you know, I think half of like setting your vision in motion is like saying the words out loud. Cause it's one thing to have all these ideas in your head, but like writing it down is one thing. And then when you like kind of put it out there in front of a group of people, it's like, oh, wow, like this is really the vision that I want to step into my, for myself and like that practice alone. So it's, it's, it's a different form of practice, but that's super exciting. I'm, I'm excited. We'll have to catch up after that.

I'm excited to hear how that goes. Definitely. And actually that's a good transition because that's kind of, that's what I wanted to, to chat with you about today, which is the vision piece. And as a leader for you, I'm curious, um, two things I want to really dive into. One is, is your vision for yourself and your business and that journey of, and has it changed and how do you look at that? But also, you know, inflection points as a leader. And I think I want to start there because I, cause that's where I'm at is for your business or for your career with, with, with, what you've done so far. What do you think has been the, the most challenging inflection point for you and why, and how did you approach it?

And I'll, I'll put some context as you think about that. You know, we've talked before dad passed last year, screwed me up, but it also was a big benefit in the sense that it ripped me out of the business, came back running like a drum. And now I'm kind of like, Whoa, all right. You know, I never, I never, I kind of admit this is dumb to admit out loud, but I never really did this to start a company. I, I, I, I did this because I, I didn't want a boss period. I, when I started me, John JB sale, Jay Barrows, I did it because I didn't want somebody to be my boss period. And along the way, I just put my head down and grinded. And about 10 years later, I woke up and I'm like, Holy shit, I got 12 people.

We're doing 8 million, you know, 7 million in revenue. It was like, Oh my God, I got a business here that I got to be serious about. And, and that was that inflection point. And so now it's put me in a really interesting spot to say, what's next for me and where do I add value? Because the two business units are running, I mean, pretty independently. And, and Chris and Megan, my two, my, you know, right and left hand here, um, they're running it. And so for me, the business doesn't really necessarily need me. I, it needs me. And I know, but to run and to move forward, it doesn't. And so I'm trying to figure out how to become a different kind of leader right now. And so I'm curious for you, was there a point on this journey that you're on right now where you had to take a step back and, and reassess the type of leader that you needed to be?

And, and, and how did you look at that? Or if there was something, how did you look at that? Yeah, great question. Um, hard question, but I'll, I'll, I'll try and think through, I think there's, there's a couple. So just for, for context, for those of the, you that don't know, I'm, I'm Melanie and I run spec it, which is a just in time learning platform. And the whole idea behind that is simple. Hey, you've got all this training and learning and content that you need as a sales rep to do your job. And it's typically soared in Google drive or in a CMS or in an LMS somewhere that you don't necessarily go back to when you need it. And so with spec it, the whole idea is like, Hey, let's take that content in those systems and let's just put it right front and center within Salesforce, within outreach, within LinkedIn, like in that UI.

And so today it's very much about like, Hey, let's like really reimagine what onboarding as a rep looks like by putting that information there, what training looks like, et cetera. But to be honest, that wasn't always the vision. It's definitely expanded from where we were. And so just reminding, rewinding back, I think there were really kind of two aha moments that really kind of set off the trajectory of our company. So the whole idea behind spec it initially was born out of when I was running basically rev ops and enablement and like, basically none of our reps were using our tools that we had specifically Salesforce. And it was a huge pain. And, you know, we had these process manuals and stuff, but no one was going back to them.

I'm like, Hey, I just wish people knew what they needed to know on how to use these tools and they could learn inside those tools. And so it very much started as a, Hey, let's train people on how to use their tools inside of those tools. And that category is called digital adoption. And so the first two years of starting the company, that was our focus. If you looked at our messaging, if you looked at everything we did, it was like, Hey, we're going to help your teams learn how to use your tools. Salesforce was a big focus and it was working, but you know, being candid, like it was kind of a slow path to getting to that, what I'd call product market fit. Um, it wasn't until I actually started, what I realized is I was talking to a lot of my buyers and I was getting that reinforcement that it was, that I was solving a problem, but I wasn't talking to the reps.

And like one day I just remembered, like, I was just having a hard time. Like we hadn't closed a deal in a little while. I'm like, what am I doing wrong? Right? Like something has to be off. And I started talking to my friends that were reps. And when I was telling them, they're like, but like, is that all it does? It just shows you how to create an opportunity. And I'm like, well, that's like part of it, but it also shows you how to like create a quote and like all the things you need to know in Salesforce. It's like, well, I just wish it actually like showed me how to do my job in these tools. Right? Like what if I could actually learn how to sell better while I was in these UIs? And that was really like, I think in talking to the end user was one of the moments where I'm like, wow, I haven't been really thinking about the problem the right way.

And so I went on like basically a two day reflection where I'm like, okay, if I'm really trying to like sell for the employee, like what kind of information does a rep care about having easy access to? And how do we break that down? And how do we put that in the flow of work? And the whole idea being that like, hey, if you actually make these tools that they're spending their time in more valuable to them, because they're literally naturally just getting better at their job while they use them, because they're ingesting that information, then the end result is still going to be adoption when it comes to your technology. It's not, but the approach is different. It's not just saying, hey, if you show them how to use it, they will use it.

It's like, hey, if you make the tool more valuable to them, they will use it. And so that I'd say is really one of those moments that expanded our vision to like, hey, we're not just trying to solve for tool training. We're trying to like reimagine what learning looks like, period. And that was something that like, it really took us a while to lean into. And then frankly, I feel like we're only now really starting to lean into, but I'd say like for my kind of, what problem are we trying to solve in the marketplace? That was a big turning point. Now, in terms of like me as a leader, and kind of like how I position myself in the marketplace, like 2020 was, and 2021 were hard years for absolutely everyone out there.

I think very few people had to experience the kind of pain, at least that I know of, that my co-founder had to experience. So my co-founder, Zari, she's become one of my best friends, someone that I absolutely love and adore, brilliant. And like, she's basically like my yang or yang, however you call it. And she leads the product in R&D org. And the long story short is she basically, you know, went through a divorce in that time, which was unexpected after 16 years and really, really tough. And then went home to spend time with her parents and her little brother, who she was incredibly close with, died one day to the next from heart failure. And then both of her parents were hospitalized. And so she just had like such a hard time and, and literally had to remove herself from the business for a little while.

And that was really like, my calling to step up, right? Because it always been like, hey, we can do this, I'm doing my piece. And now it was like, hey, there is a potential scenario here, where I no longer have a partner, right? Like just being very objective and realistic about the situation, like, how long will it take her to bounce back? And what does that look like? And so I felt like that was really a calling for me to step up personally. And it was, ironically, when I was going through a hard time, because we were going through growth, like it was middle of the winter, like it was just an exhausting time. But that was really calling for me of just like, okay, am I ready to like really step it up here and guide this company with or without, you know, a partner.

And, you know, fortunately, she's back. And I think we're stronger than ever, as a result. But I think that was one of those moments where I really had to like, get curious and do some of that deep work. And then I'd say like, before this last fundraise, it was probably one of the biggest kind of vision quests that I went on and happy to talk about that too. Yeah, I'd love to. And because I think that's the, you know, I'm going through this vision values exercise, because what I've realized is when I started this company, it was my vision, it was my values. And I hired people, obviously, who aligned with those or else I wouldn't have hired them. But now that where we are, I realize it can't just be mine, it has to be ours.

And so we're working on that right now with Chris and Megan to come up with like shared values. And look, do I think they're going to be that much different than mine? Absolutely not. But I feel like there needs to be a little bit more collective ownership of them as opposed to dictatorship of them, right? And so, you know, you talked, I remember watching your MSP keynote, and you talked a lot about infinite mindset, having a clear vision for yourself, for your product, your company and your personal. Like, talk to me about how you want to change the way education like you have a big vision, right? Yeah. And I want to talk about how to get there in a second. But I have a pointed question on that one, which is, there are some visions that are so big, that what's the line for you?

And I'm not saying there's a right or wrong line. But what's the vision for you of, that's a little ridiculous versus that's a vision that I can see. And I'll give you a quick, I'll give you a quick example. And, you know, my wife, absolutely love her. She's an environmental scientist. She's trying to change the world. She's trying to fix climate change. Okay. And, and she's, and I said, well, what's your vision is so that we can end, you know, we can change climate, we can flip. And I'm just looking at that going, Jesus, like, holy shit. You know, there, that might be one for me personally, that might deflate me eventually in the sense that it's like, I keep trying to do this impossible thing and it's not going to change that much.

I'm doing my part here, but that big vision is, is now demoralizing because it's so big. So how do you, how did you figure that out for yourself of that, that big of a vision is something that you can achieve versus it being maybe, you know, something that you're like, okay, that we shot too far on that one? Yeah. I think that's also a great question. Um, I'm grateful for the people that have those kinds of visions, um, like the Elon Musks of the world and others, you know, right. And, and at the end of the day, there's a whole nother conversation, but you know, governments aren't, and a lot of other ways aren't working. Right. And so I think there, there's, there really is something to say there that said, I think like, for me, our vision was spec it.

Like I, I think it's like the part of my brain that's like very analytical, very rational. Like I need to like literally, when I say like the vision around the product, like I need to be able to visualize it in order for me to really connect to that vision. Like it can't just be this referral, like, Oh, we're going to be like the new way of learning that like, just wait until you see it. Like I, I've always needed to be able to literally explain to someone across the room, like, okay, here's where we are today. And here's where we're going. And here's like, what I see as possible. Right. And so we've always talked about like right now, spec it layers on top of your UI. Right. And so we display the information where it's needed for you as a user, right.

Next to that field in Salesforce, next to that profile in LinkedIn, you name it. But the future I've always imagined a world where like, well, what if, right. We could actually integrate with your systems. And by having access to that data, I know what John Barrows has done as a rep versus what Clay has done as a rep versus what Morgan has done as a rep. And therefore I can personalize what training or what learning is being displayed to you based on what I know you've done or not. Like, Hey, you've competed against this deal five times. You probably don't need to see that battle card, but Oh, since Morgan went and last competed with that competitor, the training's updated. So let me send that refresher.

Right. And so I picture this future where spec, it isn't just laying on top where it's needed, but it's when it's needed and it's hyper-personalized, et cetera. But yes, does that sound kind of crazy to say because there's nothing like it today, et cetera, but like, it doesn't seem unrealistic, right? Like it's like, Oh yeah. Like you've got the data in the systems. So I've always needed to like have a practical kind of path as to like how I get there for me to have like that level of conviction. And that's just, I think how my brain works in terms of like setting goals for myself. Right. It's kind of like, if you're trying to lose weight and you're setting a goal of 30, like that's going to be really hard.

I'm like, I don't even know what I'd look like if I lost 30 pounds. I don't know if that's something I want to look like. Right. And so I think it's important to, to, to, to do that. And in the process, breaking down that vision. Right. And like, it's just like, Hey, this year we're doing that. And like, for us, it really starts with a product roadmap more than anything else. Uh, but that way you can really get excited about the milestones. And I think that's where some of those challenges around, like when you have such a big vision, it might prevent you from execution because in order to really execute, you need to be able to break down that vision. I think until like very practical steps so that you can go and tackle each one.

Right. And like the one thing you keep hearing is like, focus, focus, focus. And like, I call myself chief focus officer at, at work is a joke. And frankly, whenever I'm feeling stressed, it's because I'm like, Oh my gosh, like we, there's misalignment here. This team's working in this way. This team's working here. We're trying to tackle too much. Like, that's when I feel overwhelmed because I'm like, I haven't done my job. Right. Like there are too many people working on too many things rather than being focused. And so this year we rolled out six focus initiatives. There are six goals for the year. Right. And like, they're very clear and, you know, ideally everything rolls up and it's still, you know, a game of practice.

It's always getting back on that. But I think that to me is super, super important. Now, when it comes to like my vision for myself personally, I think that's the one that I've been struggling is not the right word, but I think like the one that I've felt the most uncomfortable really leaning into, if that makes sense. Because like when I started the company again, like it was, I was picturing this little widget that would like just solve my problem. Right. Like I wasn't picturing like this company that like, you know, the top companies in the world would use and like all the challenges that come with that and the opportunities. Right. And I think like, I also, when I was starting this company to solve my Salesforce problems, didn't realize like, Oh, by the way, like you're going to be one of the only female CEOs in your like broad, broad, broad, broad, broad, broad space, which means like you're going to be invited to panels and speaking opportunities because like, you know, thankfully the world is watching and they want diversity and like, and these are all things that I think are really, you know, beneficial to us as a company and really unique advantages.

And I'm really grateful for the opportunities, but that comes with its own set of responsibilities. Right. Because I'm also looking at, you know, now that I've like leaned more into it and I was so oblivious to the whole female in leadership. And we've talked a lot about this, but you know, okay. I feel like now I have a platform and almost carried the responsibility to kind of be the image of like what a female CEO can look like in tech. Right. Because again, there aren't a lot of examples, growing examples, but not a whole ton. And that has come with a whole new set of kind of like, do I want to be that? Do I want to be outspoken? You know, like what feels authentic? What doesn't? Right. And just all those, those things.

And so I feel like I've had to get really clear on like, what is that vision I want for my life around that? And like, how does that kind of, well, then I'd say that's definitely evolved right now. I feel a lot more strongly that I'm like, I want to build a product that like people look back at and they're like, wow, like learning at work got easier, like learning to do my job at work got easier. And I can trace that back to when Speckett came to market. And since then a whole wave of technologies came out that were designed around me and making it really easy for me to do my job, right? Learn how to do my job. So I do want to build one of those iconic generational companies, right? That people look back and they're like, wow, this product really changed the game of learning, right?

The LMS was invented in 1990. It's 2022. It's probably time that a new approach to learning is taken. That said, like, I also feel really strong conviction that like in our goal of kind of being different as a female led company in our space and showing that like, hey, you can do that and not have all the traditional traits of, you know, kind of the bro culture that was a thing, at least for the last couple of decades in sales or in technology. Here's how I want our culture to like, you know, I want people to look at our culture and be like, wow, like they did that. And there's something about the second culture that like feels empowering and welcoming and authentic and, you know, everything that goes along with that.

And that also carries responsibility. Because if I'm out there talking about having a diverse culture and having an authentic culture and having an empowered culture, right? The hard part and like being super motivating is like, it's not always roses and ponies, right? Like there are times that like, we're going to miss goals and we're going to miss targets. And like the hard part about that is then like, when I feel like I need to like be direct and have hard conversations, does that feel misaligned, right? And so it's just that constant calibration. And then like thinking about, you know, all these takedown stories that are happening because, you know, there is a misalignment there. And so there's just all these different things that I think kind of like pile on to the challenge of like building a company in today's day and age, which is a pretty public way of building a company with social platforms, right?

And I think that's the hardest part when like you are a little bit more public and vocal on social platforms. Like when you're having a hard week, like where's John? Why isn't he posting? Oh, or a hard month or a hard period, you know? And I think that's where like having that clarity of vision for yourself and what your personal values are that are separate from the vision for your career is so important. Because if those two identities and those two visions are too attached, then when something's going wrong in either department, it's like everything comes crawling down, crumbling down. And that's something that I've really gotten clear on. It's just like, okay, here's my vision for my life.

And here's my vision for spec in a career. And like, there are parts that absolutely overlap. And I have separate identities that still hold strong at the end of the day. Oh, you know, it's so funny you say that stuff, because I think that's been one of the unintended consequences of, of, of the brand, if you will, right? Of your brand is you, like you have it more than anyone else. Like the brand is you. We've been pretty intentional of, of trying to get away from that. Right. We started with Jay Barrows. And at first I wanted nothing to do with that. I wanted it to be a company. I was going to call it Kaizen and, you know, continuous improvement and all this other stuff. But, but you know, Chris is like, no, no, you get like, you have to brand yourself in this space.

I was like, ah, shit, fine. Put my ugly mug on a website. I hate it. But, you know, and then I decided, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this my way. And, you know, and it was a lot slower slog than most in the sense that most people, you know, did some, you know, buy a million followers back in the, you know, back when that was, um, I was like, that's dumb. I don't, but then all of a sudden it's just like, I told you, like I said, you know, I woke up 10 years later and I got, you know, 400,000 people following me. I got 12 people that are, you know, on the squad here. And it's like, oh, now the stuff that I say, not that it didn't matter before, but now it really matters. I mean, you know, I use this, I mean, you know, I use this podcast as almost an open therapy session for myself.

And it's, it's one of those things where, you know, I'm hoping that I can bring my insights to everybody else and the insights from, you know, from people like you, but it's, it's tough to, to, to balance that in a way that is from a mental health standpoint, you know what I mean? That added pressure. And I can't imagine what it's on you. I mean, to your point of being a 30 under 30, you know, female CEO of a incredibly funded, successful business and the spotlight that's on you, how much does that weigh on you? How much, how, how much does that burden, if you will? And I, and I say burden, not necessarily in a negative way. Um, but how much does that, that, that weigh on you knowing that there are people out there looking at you for that reason, both positively and negatively one to tear you down because of it, others to look up to you.

And the context is Morgan, for instance, you know, one of the things he said to me, um, he put down this whole list. I'd like, I said, Morgan map out, like, what are your wildest dreams? You know, cause I, my goal is to help you get there. Right. And he wrote a bunch of stuff down that really shocked me. Cause Morgan, you know him. I mean, he's a really wholesome kid. And, um, and he said like stuff like jets, like private jets and stuff. And I was like, Morgan, that doesn't, that doesn't match with you. I go, why that? But when he explained it to me, I was like, Oh my God. And he goes, John here in Atlanta, young black kids, the only success they see are rappers. And at the time, this was like four years ago, he goes, and rappers are dying in the streets right now in Atlanta.

Like there's like, I guess a couple of like big name rappers shoot out and whatever. And they were killing, you know, kind of my day is biggie and Tupac. Right. And he's like, so that's all they see as far as success is concerned. I want to show them that you can have the baller watch. You can have the plane, you can have that, but you don't have to be the rapper and the ghetto, you know, uh, to do it. You can actually be a business professional and achieve those things. And then it dawned on me the pressure that that kid is under because of who may or may not be looking from both sides. And that's what scares me about, you know, I'm a white male, like, you know, pick on me all you want. I don't give a shit.

You know what I mean? Like I, like I get promoted for half the things that everybody else gets yelled at for. Right. So, you know, woe is me, but the pressure on and the spotlight. And I'm curious, do you feel that? Um, and do you embrace it or does it scare the shit out of you or both? I've learned to embrace parts of it because I think otherwise it'd be a pretty unhappy journey. I think what you mentioned about Morgan is actually very much the reason that I have leaned into it. Uh, and it's because, you know, over the last couple of years and reflecting, like people have asked me, like, have you always wanted to be an entrepreneur or a CEO? And my dad says that, like, I told him at one point that I like wanted to work for myself someday and he's probably right.

But, but I don't think I actually like really thought that. Right. And I talked about it at that keynote too, but like, if I look back to like, what were my memories of like what female success looked like? Well, it definitely wasn't Disney movies. Cause when I grew up, it was like, you were either a princess, right. Or you were literally Mulan where you cut your hair to pretend to be a boy to, to, you know, to, to be there. Granted now there's Moana and like, there's been a lot of improvements, but like growing up, like you wanted to be a princess. Saved by the Prince. Right. And then when I think about my teenage years, the movies that I remember that kind of depicted female leadership or the devil was Prada, right.

And then right. And they're kind of these images of like these powerful women, they're wearing pantsuits. That's kind of like what I visualize, but like you walk in the office and everyone's hiding from them and they're like walking around and they're fine with like not being liked, but being successful. And you kind of realize that like, there aren't a lot of examples of what it looked like to be a powerful, successful woman. Right. And also be liked and have love and all those other things that you really seek in life. And so, you know, as I started reflecting more on that, I'm like, wow, like, I think it's so important to have that vision, to have visuals, right. Because what Morgan was just describing, right.

Oh, you want to be that rapper. Cause you see that life, right. You want to be an athlete. Cause you see that life. You want to be a pop star. Cause you see that life. Right. And then in Silicon Valley, like you want to be that dropout from Stanford or wherever behind a computer that like starts in a garage because you want to be that nerdy developer that becomes Mark Zuckerberg, Steve jobs, you name it. And so I feel like there were a lot of examples of what it looked like to be successful in tech, but not a lot of what it looked like to be a successful woman in tech. Right. And unfortunately there's been some other complicated stories that have come out, you know, women that have gone before us, right.

With Elizabeth Holmes and others that unfortunately didn't help with the situation either. And so I think when it comes to the spotlight, like the number one thing that worries me is that takedown story one day, because I actually heard it on the all in podcast, uh, which has become one of my favorite podcasts, uh, where they talk about, you know, the press and like the danger of like having that spotlight is like when things are on the up and things are going in the right direction, right. They're the first to like help elevate. But as soon as there's missteps, you start, it can quickly backfire. Um, and, and I think that I've learned to, you know, I, I really try, like I have a few rules, like, and I, you know, even this morning I fired off a reactionary email to our head of sales, who I absolutely love and adore and who, you know, has helped build spec it to what it is.

And I was nitpicky nitpicky about something unnecessary and, you know, I regretted it afterwards. And so like, I'm going to make mistakes and I'm going to, you know, not always communicate in the most effective way. And like, I know I can be a pain. Like I unfortunately am so perfectionist when it comes to things that it can drive my team up a wall. Right. But I think the things that I really try and make sure that I do is like, I've got a couple of rules. Like I never go to bed mad with an employee, right? Like if I know that I'm in the wrong, I want to resolve it before going to bed, because those are the kinds of things that like keep me up at night and that like stuff. And so I already texted him.

I was like, okay, can we chat before we end the day? Just because I know that that was on me to kind of to apologize. And, you know, I tried to hold off on sending that email to the next morning where by then I'm like, oh, wow, that really wasn't that big of a deal. Right. And so like, you know, not only am I on an advanced track of building a company, but like, I'm on advanced track of like learning how to manage a lot of people. Like we went from zero four years ago to 30 to, you know, 75 and now 160, like going from like me managing AEs to now me managing like our SVP of sales, who manages RVPs of sales, who manages managers and AEs. Like that is a very different leadership style. And, you know, I think I really try and stay true to my values.

And part of what helps me, you know, is like, I still take my Saturdays off and most Sundays, like there, I still have realized like that whole, like pushing through it. And like, you know, my, my coach helped me think he's like, when you're drowning, sometimes like you feel like you need to keep moving, but sometimes if you just pause to float at the surface and change perspective, that's kind of what you need to be able to, to keep going. Right. By, by calming down. Like that's something that I've like really leaned into regulating is kind of like how I react to situations. And ultimately, you know, I, I try to think that, you know, most people that work with me and partner with us or that I've led, you know, while not every relationship might be perfect, like hopefully, you know, they would say, you know, for her flaws, I'm still better off in my career because she pushed me to be better, you know, and, and things like that.

So, but I think the spotlight is definitely something that you'll see sometimes I lean into it. And then sometimes you won't hear from me for a few months because I'm like, I just needed a little bit of just focus time and heads down and, and things of that sort. So just something I'm, I don't have the best answer to, but just navigate and trying my best to, you know, set the right example, but also realize, you know, and forgive myself when I'm not perfect, because I think that's the hardest part is like, if you're trying to build a company, but you're also trying to be this perfect image of what like female leadership looks like, like that's not authentic either. Right. Because I think it should be okay to like make mistakes and like, kind of trip in the process, as long as you continue to move forward.

What's up everybody. I know you're enjoying this conversation. John does a great job with genuine curiosity on these episodes and our guests consistently bring the heat. We want to take a moment here and let you know that you've got an opportunity, an opportunity to become better than you were yesterday. And you can do so by gaining access to all of JB sales content, all of their training tips, techniques, tactics, and takeaways can be yours for $1 a day. $365 for the year gets you annual access to everything, including our private Slack channel for members only, which you get access to all of us directly a hundred percent of the time, 24 hours a day. And then at the same time, you're going to get access to our bi-weekly ask me anything sessions where you can bring real deals to the table and get the help that you need where you need it.

This is very, very important. Sales reps that invest in themselves are often found at the tops of their leaderboards. Join us today and get the help you need to become the seller that you deserve to be. That URL one more time is joinjbsales.com. Let's get back to the show with JB and our guests for this week. In order to grow, you have to make those mistakes and learn, but then take accountability for them. And I think it, to me, it comes back to the values piece. Um, right. Cause I think, you know, you have a certain set of core values for yourself that you live by. And my belief is, is if those values are true and you live them, you know, you'll, you'll screw up. But, but as long as you can go back to saying, like, I'm like, this is who I am.

And this is, you know, yes, I made a mistake, but right. You'll get the benefit of the doubt. Right. And, and you can even get ripped apart for a while, but you'll survive it. And I, in an analogy that I, I thought of a while back, and I think it was like a couple of years ago, um, Matt Damon, you know, so Boston kid here. Uh, and it was, it was interesting. You know, Matt Damon is, has led a, I mean, pretty flawless career as far as his, I don't know about you, but I look at him as, he seems like a really good person, right? I, I watch what he does. I've listened to him on the Dax Shepard podcast. Have you listened to him on Armchair Expert? Listen to it. It's a great podcast. I definitely will.

And he's, you know, he's an authentic kid, right? Um, you know, Good Will Hunting was great, not because he was a great actor. It's because that's who he was. You know what I mean? Like he was, and yeah, he made a bunch of mistakes, but his core was, was right. And he had done something where it was the most interesting thing from a psychology standpoint, as far as our society is concerned. It blew my mind. He openly admitted that he made a mistake. And so, and I'm probably, I'm going to probably get a lot of shit for saying, just saying what he said, but I'm going to say it anyways, to make the point. He was telling the story with his, he was at dinner with his daughter and he used the F word.

And I don't mean the fuck word. I mean, fag. And his daughter who was, you know, 10, 11, 12, was like, daddy, you can't say that. And he was like, and he was confused. And now this was just a couple of years ago. Right. It's like, like, okay, it's 2020 here. You know, you should know not to use that word. Right. And he was like, huh, why? And his daughter educated him and he started and he said, you know what? You're right. I don't use it in the derogatory way, but you know, I probably, I understand how that might come across. So the funny thing is, is I grew up here in Boston. When I grew up, we use that word. Like it was going out of stuff. I mean, it was everything, no matter what it wasn't, it had nothing to do with, you know, derogatory towards gay people.

And, but he got shredded for it. So here's somebody who's admitting he was wrong. Who's admitting he was growing right. And, and learning along the way and the social world absolutely ripped him apart. Okay. Which is so interesting. Cause he's also sharing it probably because like he felt like that would actually help educate and send a message of growth to. And he was just like, wait a minute. And, and look in my mind, I'm like, you know, like I said, like, all right, it dude, it's 2020. I, I knew that word was, I, I use that word just like you did a whole bunch when I was a kid, uh, about 20 years ago, 30 years ago, I figured it was a bad word to say. So I stopped saying that's right. I learned back then, like the fact that you're learning it now is a little weird, but the fact that you're learning it and growing, we should be commending you for that as opposed to, right.

It's like politicians who change their opinion. Yeah. And I think so actually very good point. I'm so glad he said that because, um, I sent a message to our leadership team. I haven't sent it to the whole company I'm, I'm working on, on a read me, but I have not like publicly commented on the Ukraine, Russia situation to our team. And that's because, um, years ago when Zari and I were starting the company. So first off, she's from Pakistan originally, and that's where our first development team team, uh, started. And, you know, the Western and Eastern world are two different worlds when it comes to political, cultural, religious beliefs. And that's actually what I think makes our culture as strong as it is, because it's so diverse, like by nature, like our first four employees were split.

And Zari's kind of, you know, has both cultures reflected in her. And I think it's really a beautiful thing, but because of that, and because of my own upbringing, like I grew up in a relatively conservative household, but I also grew up as an adult in my, starting my career in San Francisco, which is the opposite of conservative. I was exposed to a lot of different belief systems and a lot of different thoughts. And, you know, I, I'm still figuring out to be completely candid with you, like what, how I identify when it comes to things. Like I've always looked at like the issues themselves, but I don't feel comfortable talking about political issues. One, because I think like, unfortunately the marginal benefit of me doing that vis-a-vis our team is very minimal, but the mental energy that it takes for me to have to write these emails and to do that communication takes away.

And the risk is that it might while be well-intentioned offend someone on our team, because I'm not understanding their, their belief systems. Right. And like, when it comes to the Ukraine and Russia war is a great example of like the Eastern and Western views on that are unfortunately quite different. Now I grew up in Europe. I've got friends in Ukraine. Like I know what my personal beliefs are, but whether or not I want to use my business platform for it is different. And this stance itself of not wanting to use my business platform might change over time, but basically what Zari and I kind of committed to and agreed philosophically in terms of our values as founders is that, you know, I want to use my platform for one cause and it is to elevate female leadership.

And I'd rather pour all my energy into that. And that's kind of what the Gates have done when it comes to charity. Like they are like, Hey, instead of spreading our wealth across 10,000 charities, let's go out and try and solve one problem. Like I think my energy mentally and literally time and resources that go into advocating for every single social cause out there that deserves advocating for is something that just, I, I can't do. And I think I'm setting myself up for, for failure because if I comment on one thing and not the other, does that mean I don't care? Does it mean I don't care enough to communicate? Does it mean that I don't know? Does it, you know, and I just, I don't want that to be a source or a reason as to why or why not someone joins us on the mission of what we are trying to solve for that I think can have a lot of positive impact in the way that, you know, the world works.

And so that's something that I've actually like proactively taken a step and I communicate to our leadership and surprisingly, yeah. And I didn't take, you know, I know some people have said like no politics in Slack channels and stuff. Like we haven't taken that kind of stance. I don't think it's really been an issue for us, but I've just said, you know, that I reserve the right to just not comment on these situations and to instead, you know, kind of focus on, on these different missions that I, that I feel very closely attached to. And, you know, not everyone's going to agree with that, but that's just something that I've done to kind of free myself of having to step up and discuss every single political, socio-economic, you know, factor that comes up.

I think I need to take a page from you because, you know, I, I actually have the opposite problem. Um, because of my privilege, because of what I've, and again, I say privilege in the sense of not, I was given what I have right now. I've earned, I genuinely believe I've earned it, but I've been the privilege of just being a white male in America. Um, you know, use it. And now that I have a voice in a platform, it's almost like I want to help elevate everybody else who hasn't had that privilege. And I've gotten myself in a lot of trouble, um, uh, by doing that, speaking on certain things, picking fights on social, you know, on, you know, and, and trying to, in, in, in a positive way, elevate others, but in, in, in also by doing that, picking fights with others who are not, who are, who are against that thing, right?

Whatever it might be. And I, I think I have to, uh, really kind of recenter on the focus, the focus point of, of where I can, where I can best help. Uh, because now I think the other challenges is now that people know that about me as far as my, the, the, the, the requests are coming from everywhere to, to help support in this. And it, and it is, um, overwhelming in a lot of ways. And it's also demoralizing in a lot of ways because I know I can't help everybody. And, and it's, it's, it's a, it's an interesting place to be in once you're at a point where you have a, a platform to have a voice that can elevate others where you choose to apply that is, uh, is a, is a, is a blessing and a curse, I think.

Um, yeah, absolutely. And, and on that note, I think one of the lessons that I did have, like a true privilege of learning is at my last company where the idea for spec, it started, it was a real estate crowdfunding platform. So very innovative concept ultimately was not successful. Uh, but I was working in operations and then ended up being our chief of staff to the new CEO that came in. Uh, and we were about 150 person org at that time in the heart of San Francisco, like first in market for those of you that don't know San Francisco, like it's as kind of Democrat of a city out there. Um, and our new CEO, while he, I don't know for a fact, whether he was Republican or Democrat, and I don't think it matters, but let's just say he was very well connected.

And one day he came up to me and he's like, Hey, um, what are your thoughts on having Jeb Bush come and speak to the office? And I've never told this story, but I love it. Um, it was honestly so irony. And so anyway, um, I'm like, I do not know. So he had just ran for president and, uh, this was right after Trump had, had gotten elected. And so there was a lot of, um, chaos around, you know, the, the border wall down in Mexico. And there was a lot of heat on the Republican party and everything else. And I'm like, I just, I don't, I literally don't have an answer because I'm not in this enough to be able to like speak for whether our team would, would have received, but like, let me go find out.

And my like best friend of the company was our sales leader and she was in her late thirties. Um, I was actually the witness at the marriage, uh, that she had to her wife. Uh, so, you know, uh, identified that way. And I remember we went to dinner that night and I was like, Kelly, like, and of all people that I thought might potentially push back, you know, because her views were pretty strong in, in one direction. I thought it was her, but I was like, Hey Kelly, you know, the funniest thing happened. Like Ed asked me, you know, if we'd want to have Jeb Bush come to the office and her answer that I will remember forever. And she's like, what Jeb Bush. I'm like, yeah. She's like, I'm so fucking literally that word.

And I was like, wait, really? I was like, really? She's like, you mean the son of a former president of the mayor of the United States of America and the brother to the former president of the United States of America. She's like, yes, we want the opportunity to come hear him speak. She's like, that's a once in a lifetime opportunity for everyone in the office. I'm like, yeah. And she's like, I don't care what my views are. Like that is an honor to have the opportunity to see that firsthand. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to take that as the same, as, as the opinion. And so he ended up coming into the office and literally every single, this is when we were still in the office, every single person came to the office that day, every single one.

And we all sat and it was a mix of engineers and real estate folks. And we sat there and it was kind of set up as a fireside chat. Um, and I learned a lot. Um, but for example, you know, one of the big topics that was talked about was the, the wall and guess what? His wife is Mexican. And so his views on immigration were completely different than what was being kind of portrayed in, in the news. And his whole thing was about education. And he talked about like the need to upskill the labor force and all the changes that were coming. And like, you looked at the room and like, you could not disagree with a single word that he was saying. Now, again, he's a politician and that's an important thing to realize, but the topics that were covered were like, how do we make immigration work?

What are the different solutions to it? And he was talking about the problem with this, you know, great divide that was happening that I think only got, you know, greater over time and the lack of conversation that was happening and the conversation, like, and it was interesting because he was bringing both sides and he's like, here's the flaws with this. And like, literally I received like 25 plus emails to forward to the CEO that were just thanking him for the opportunity because of how much it opened their mind. And I think for all of us, it was reminder that, you know, if you just read what the headlines are saying or the snippets that you're seeing on TV or like these great debates that people are under pressure, like it might seem like, you know, you could not possibly agree on a single thing with the person on the other side of the room.

But the reality is, I think like when you actually get these people talking, oftentimes the center is that you're a lot closer to the center than you think when it comes to certain things. And granted there's, you know, there's definitely differences there, but for me, it was just an important lesson on like the need for conversation and communication and being able to like hear both sides. And that's something that, you know, I take pride in having friends and family members that have very different political opinions and different parties and like really wanting to hear both sides because I think it makes me a better leader ultimately to at least seek to understand why someone might be against or for something, you know, and, and trying to use that for my opinion and at least seek to understand first.

And I think Colorado, one of the beauties of that is that you kind of get that, that mixture versus in San Francisco, that was a lot harder to do. So anyway, that was a really important lesson for me around the kind of, you know, the whole idea of like getting in fights with people online and things of that sort. It's just like, you know, it's, it's easy to hide behind a screen and to, you know, voice certain things. But, you know, if you picture yourself like, Hey, what would it look like if I had a conversation with this person across the table? Like, what would that look like? You know, I think it's often a slightly different approach. And so anyway, I think that's incredible. It's funny because I've done that before where, you know, and thankfully I think I've, I've gotten through, you know, as many followers without very many trolls, you know what I mean?

Like hardcore trolls. I'm surprised as a matter of fact, that I don't have as many people, you know, just spitting fire, you know, jumping on my posts and saying dumb stuff. But there, you know, there's a few. And I remember there's, there was been a few times where I've gotten in like full blown, like, you know, dumb ass arguments online. And then I stopped. I was like, wait a minute, why don't you come on the podcast? Let's have this conversation. And unfortunately none of them have, because I'm like, you know, come on. Like if you want to have this conversation, let's have this conversation. Cause I do believe that the values piece of it, I think is such an important piece because you're right.

I think the majority of us just want to wake up in the morning. We want to, you know, make a decent living. We want to support our families. We want to take a few vacations and we just want to live a reasonably happy life. You know what I mean? It doesn't always have to be happy, but it, you know, more happy, right. Majority of the time, please. Um, and, and, and I think my, you know, my favorite example of this is, and this is why I'm such a, a marijuana advocate is because there was this, this video that I saw where they took three people, one hardcore left. Okay. A hardcore right and a centrist and, and, you know, a libertarian and they put them at a table and they literally just started talking.

And at first it was visceral, like, Oh, you suck. And I hate you. Right. And then they took a bong and they pass it around and no joke. First round, they're still arguing with each other. Second round, they're still kind of arguing with each other. Third session. All of a sudden they start, they're like, what, what were we arguing about again? Like you actually seem actually kind of cool. Like what, and, and you, you saw as soon as you took the actual politics out of it and you focus more on like certain issues. And I think that's the difference, right? If you focus on a certain issue, then we can have a conversation. But if you put politics into this and you force me to choose a side, well then we're going to argue.

And, and I've always believed that as long as you have shared values, you can, we can argue all day long, but, but we'll ultimately come to a point of agreement or agree to disagree, but we'll still respect each other. But if we don't have those shared values, we're just going to argue with each other. And I think that's, that's my fear right now of where we are is that we're losing those values, but, you know, bringing it back to business. I think that's the unique thing that we have as, as leaders is the ability to shape those values and bring people on that share them, albeit bring different perspectives, but have shared values that, that at the core, you know, we can agree on. So. A hundred percent.

And going back to hiring and growing, like, I don't, I can't tell you how we've interviewed for this, but I can tell you that, you know, I feel it strongly in our team and I think like kindness is like, right. And my coach recently actually was, was talking about the difference between me being nice and me being kind. And, you know, the, the difference between like, Oh, like I'm, I don't want to offend and I don't want to be too direct. And so I'm being nice, but the lack of authenticity that shines through. And it's like the energy that goes through that. Like you might as well just tell the person that like the way that they delivered sucked and like they need to redo. It's just like, it's kind of just like, Hey, listen, I really want to give you real feedback here because I think that like, we're close.

We're just not there yet. And I think we can do that. And like, I want to help you get there. Right. And like the, like, and that's really how I feel in that moment, but sometimes I don't want to offend or I don't, you know, and so I try and be nice. And like, that doesn't come off authentically. And I think like that, like underlying value of just like, are you kind and are you coming from a good place? And are you trying to be your best self? Right. And understanding that like part of kindness is forgiveness. Right. Like I know that, you know, just like, I'm going to make missteps. My team is too. And like trying to like really, you know, be patient in those, those times is important, but yeah, it's, you know, every year is a, is a new journey.

And the one thing, you know, I tell people is more people, more problems. You know, and more people and so much more fun and so much more collaboration. And it's, you know, I mean, it really is an honor of a lifetime. I think, I don't think I'll start another company after this, be able to see this kind of company grow and evolve. But, you know, I think what you really learn is just people, right? Like how do you organize teams and organize people in like, almost in harmony, right? Like in synchronicity around like all these different goals and projects and different viewpoints. And going back to what you said earlier, which I loved your awareness of it. Like, I don't want to dictate our values or like what our goals are.

Like I want it to be collaborative. Like to me, it's always that calibration of like, okay, if I kind of like go too much, it feels like there's that like decision paralysis where like, there's a lot of collaboration happens, but not that clarity of like, what are we marching towards? And I feel like I need to like, what I'm working through is just like, okay, how clear and how do I set goals and priorities in a way that like my team can feel trusted and can feel empowered and doesn't feel like Mel's always checking in and seeing what's happening because I know how frustrating that can be for a team. And I'm definitely guilty of it, you know, but, you know, still recognize that like, it can't just be like my way.

It has to be, you know, I need to trust our leaders to have their ways and to bring that strategy in. And like, that's a process that we're going through right now. We're like, you know, learning to let go and empower, but empower doesn't mean, Hey, just give them full ownership and let them run. It's like, Hey, what context, what knowledge, what information do they need to be able to get to the right decision? Right. Not just make a decision and take ownership of it, but get to the right decision. And so what I'm trying to figure out really is like, what are the systems that we need to have in place so that I can really impart that knowledge and I can have the right visibility so that, you know, we have that right working relationship.

And I think that just comes with, with skill ultimately. Um, and I think like it starts with your values, right. And like getting super clear on that. So, well, as always, we cover a lot of ground here and, and, uh, I appreciate you helping me work through some of this stuff. Cause like I said, I'm, I'm actively working through, uh, my own values, my own, uh, you know, resetting those or reclarifying those, I guess is, is a better way to look at it and, and the vision for myself. Um, and, and hopefully that'll translate to a better vision for us as a business. Um, but, uh, you know, uh, I'm definitely in that interesting transition phase and I appreciate your insights cause I, you're definitely somebody I look up to, uh, who, who, uh, you know, I know we all look at other people and say, Oh, that person has their shit together.

And we, none of us have our shit together. And I know that, but you seem to be, uh, making a lot of the right moves and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, and jealous and, and on my own, jealously at a much younger age, uh, it always blows me away that, uh, that you've come to. The world's quite a different place. I've, I've been very lucky in, in that sense. Um, and that comes with its own challenges too, you know, at least you have the worry of like having a wife and a kid out of the way by the time you were starting a business. Like I'm kind of doing it in reverse order over here, but, um, I appreciate that. And you know, I'm, I'm excited to hear how that vision quest goes. It'll be, it'll be fun.

Right. Yeah. I'm bringing a journal. I'm bringing a journal. Uh, and I'm, I'm going to roll. I'm also, I'm debating quick last, last question for you. I'm debating on not bring, not like turning off my phone for three days. So there's two parts of me. One part of me wants to document in a visual way in some cases, like, because Sedona is a beautiful place. And, you know, as I, if I'd go hikes and those types of things and taking pictures and, and documenting that on like Instagram, so people can follow my journey, um, and learn with me versus no, this is no technology. I'm bringing a notebook and I'm just going to write some shit down and see what comes out on the other side. Any suggestions?

Without a shadow of a doubt, turn that phone off. That's what I thought you would say. I think it is so important. Like you can go back to Sedona. Yeah. I've been there. I got married. The same thing. Yeah, there you go. Like at the end of the day, I just think there's something so powerful that happens when you detach from like your current reality and the reality and like your reality, unfortunately, part of it is like access to your, especially because you are like externally focused without like by nature of like who you are and what your job is. I think like for you to really focus in internally and have like those aha moments that I think will have a much greater impact on your external world.

Once you like really start living by whatever kind of truth drop down, like I would just say like, this is your time and your time only, like you're investing in this for you. You're not doing it for the outside world. Like just trust the process and trust that like when you come out of, not just like the three days, but like the work that will kind of come down. And that's a big piece to like journaling the week afterwards, because otherwise like you're, it's, it's like, you can have like these epiphanies and stuff. And then like, it's all about how do you integrate and live by them. Right. It's just like, okay, Hey, I'm realizing that the way that I was structuring my day, like I was in meetings all day.

I didn't have any thinking time. Like if that's something like I always in my journal, like, right, like literally like action items. So I'll like write thoughts. And then I'm like a big triangle with an exclamation mark. I'm like, here's my takeaways. And at the end I summarize them so that I come back and I'm like, all right, I'm going to block time off as get shit done time so that I can get in that flow state and like really let my creative energy go through during the day. So I'm not just putting it off night after night, you know? And so some of those things that, you know, will be key to helping you kind of unlock that greater vision, like make sure that you integrate them in the weeks following and then start sharing.

Because I think like the more time, like there's definitely value in like documenting while they're fresh, like writing them down. But I think the reflections that you'll have, like in the weeks following will be that much more powerful as you look back and you realize like, oh, and here's how I'm actually starting to apply that. And I think that's where people will be able to relate to what you're sharing most. It's just like, Hey, here's what I like. I had this realization when I was reflecting on how I'm spending my time, et cetera. And so since then, here are some of the small changes that I've made. And here's what I can tell you about how I'm feeling just in these small changes. Like that's what people will actually be able to take away from it is like, okay, what are some of those practical tactical changes?

So I guess that's what my gut was telling me anyways. And, and also, you know, just being present, you know, uh, I think that's one of the things I've had a hard time with is, is really just being in the moment and like, like, you know, focusing on me for a bit, which is, uh, a little scary, uh, to tell you the truth. Uh, but, uh, we'll, we'll see what happens. Uh, I agree with that. It's kind of a whole thing. You can't love anybody else until you love yourself. Right. So awesome. Well, Melanie, always a pleasure. Any, um, any place, I mean, obviously LinkedIn, but anything cool that you want to point people towards? Go check out our website. Stuck it. If you're a rep, tell your managers about it.

Tell them you heard me on John Barrows, reach out to me. Uh, and always happy to, uh, to discuss, you know, career growth, things of that sort. Um, so feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Well, thank you for everything you're doing, Melanie. And thank you for everything you are and love these conversations as always. We'll talk again, next round of funding, next, next milestone, but let's not, let's not make it a year. Let's, let's, let's make it more often. Okay. Love it. Love it. And everybody, thanks for listening. Hopefully you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. And like I always say at the end of all the podcasts here, no matter how bad your day is going today, go out there and make somebody smile.

Cause if you make somebody smile, you know, you had a good day and world means a lot more of that these days. So thank you all very much for listening and I'll see you on the other side. Thank you so much for your time today and listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did with your support and our incredible guests. We're one of the top sales podcasts in the industry with over a million downloads. And I can't thank you enough to keep the momentum going. If you could go to your favorite podcast platform and leave us a five-star review, I would greatly appreciate it. In return, I will answer any question that you have on Instagram. Hit me up there at John M as in Michael Barrows with a video question or a DM, and I will get right back to you.

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