The Ten Commandments of Selling with Dr. Yaniv Zaid

how to sell, how to become likable. First, tell about your success. Second, tell about your failures. Hey everyone, welcome back to Make It Happen Mondays, where we talk about sales, business, entrepreneurship, personal growth, mental health, and everything in between with guests I truly respect and I think make a positive impact on the world around us. Today's conversation is with Dr. Yaniv Zaid. He is, or he has, spent his entire career empowering professionals, businesses, and organizations worldwide with the skills to communicate effectively, influence audiences, boost sales, marketing, and drive success. With over 22 years of experience, he's delivered 2,500 keynotes, lectures, workshops across four continents, helping more than 950 companies enhance their sales performance, negotiation, and leadership.

His research-based methods combine psychology and practical business tools, making his insights both powerful and actionable. He's also the author of 11 best-selling books translated into 12 different languages, and more specifically, his new book on the new Bible of sales, The Ten Commandments. And so that is what we dove into and started with obviously his background, but dove right into the difference between persuasion and manipulation. And, you know, he's got a lot of good values that he follows through on as it relates to the power of persuasion and how to use it. And so we talked through that and some examples there, and then got into some of the things that he talks about in his book, right, about the narrative and how identity matters, you know, how your customers see themselves as more powerful than the features and functions that you have.

And then the persuasion process, this was what I found interesting. There is an actual universal persuasion process that he goes through, and it's very similar to what we've all heard before about like, no like trust. And that's where I started to challenge him a little bit about, do people really have to like you? I think, I know they have to trust you to buy from you, but do they really have to like you? And he thinks you do, and gives a couple of good examples of why. And then we talked about how to accelerate trust and, and, you know, through social proof and expertise. And then how failure is actually one of the fastest way to do that and, and talking about failure and talking about what you're not good at.

I know it sounds kind of counterintuitive when it comes to sales, but this is a realization I came to a long time ago that, you know, the more you share where you're not good, or the more you share your failures, the more people tend to trust you. That's why almost all my content, you'll, you'll hear me talk way more about my failures than my successes. Not only because I think we learned a lot more from that, but I think that also builds some credibility out there. So, um, and we finished up with branding yourself and, and the challenge of that, uh, when you are not the expert and what you need to do, and then actually finished up with what sales reps need to do moving forward here to stay relevant.

So I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Let's make it happen. Dr. Yanov, how are you, my friend? Welcome to the make it happen Monday podcast. Thank you, John. It's great being here. I heard there are many episodes in your podcast and I loved it. So it's a privilege for me to be here. Uh, thanks for, thanks for joining, man. I didn't do my prep work. You, uh, you've been around a block for a little while talking about a lot of things that I talk about and written a lot more books than I have. So, uh, I thought this was going to be an interesting conversation specifically around kind of persuasion and the art and the science around it. Um, you know, we're going to get into topics like persuasion versus manipulation and all that fun stuff.

But before we do, uh, I always love to hear kind of background stories here, man, like stuff we can't learn on LinkedIn. So what made you, you growing up parents environment? I know you're in from Israel and still living there right now. So talking a little bit about what made you, you, and then we'll get into the career background. First of all, I'm 48 years old. I'm married for the second time and I have three boys. Uh, one is a baby four months old and two, 15 years old and 17 years old. Uh, and I've been doing this for 22 years now. Uh, I delivered more than 2,500, uh, lectures and workshops and courses throughout the world in four continents. And, uh, I wrote so far 11 books, uh, six in Hebrew and five in English.

They were translated to 12 languages. And, uh, and so far I sold more than 300,000 copies worldwide. Uh, and I started in the debate society when I was a student, I studied law and economy, uh, in, uh, high fair university. It's the city where I grew up in north of Israel and I joined the debate society and I started competing in many, uh, many competitions worldwide, uh, Europe competitions, uh, because Israel is part of Europe and the world, world championships. And I was very good at it. I, uh, one, uh, I got to semifinals in a, uh, uh, European championship in 2002. I reached number three in the debate, uh, uh, uh, in the, in the speaker contest in the 2003 in South Africa. And then I started to teach it.

And, um, the debates of the debate method is only for, you know, for people who, uh, compete in debate, but the methods or the, or the system is relevant to everyone, for every salesperson and manager and, uh, and, and commander and, uh, and et cetera, and service provider. So I started teaching it. And then I published my book. My first book was published in 2004. I was 27 years old and was, it was a huge success in Israel. And afterwards, it was huge success on Amazon and afterwards, huge success in many more countries. And then I realized that what I know, what I can teach is very, very relevant for everyone, because I think that communication skills are relevant, uh, maybe now in the digital era more than ever, and people need it.

So I started lecturing about it and I found out that I love it. And I work with companies and entrepreneurs and authors and, uh, speakers and the service providers and high tech companies, low tech companies, banks, uh, governments. My life is very interesting. So each day I, I meet a different client, uh, because everyone needs, you know, to improve their communication skills. I couldn't agree more on that, my friend. Um, let's talk, let's go back to the debate thing. Like when you first started the debates and you said you realized you were pretty good at it. I'm guessing back and, and also PhD law. So there's a lot of logic in your backgrounds, uh, you know, like non sales. And, and I know law is obviously about arguing your case, but how, what was your realization of why you were good at debate back then before you learned about persuasion?

First of all, I always liked to talk, uh, maybe even too much when I was young, you know, but, uh, but then I realized during the debate, uh, when I was the chairman of the debate society in a competitive debate, that the debate is a method that helps you be more structured, you know, and, uh, and, uh, say your message in a minimum, in a minimal timeframe. And you know how to, and know how to adapt your messaging to your target audience and, uh, and, uh, be more relevant and, uh, treat the audience, uh, in a better way. So I would, I would, I would have to talk. Maybe I wasn't structured enough or focused enough. And when I joined the debate society, then I, it helped me, uh, if I will give grade to myself, I was eight and they helped me, uh, become nine and a half.

Let's say 10 is, is, is, uh, is it will always try to achieve 10, but we can't. It's perfect. So, so it helped me. And for other people who have, let's say, a stage fright or fear fright, uh, uh, a fear, uh, free from talking, which are more, most people debate helps to the structure helps them to create a, to deliver a message in a, in a current way. Okay. So maybe I was from, I, it took me from eight to nine and a half, but someone else, you can take him from, let's say six to eight or six to eight and a half. And sometimes the gap is, is more relevant for them, even more important for them than for me. Uh, so it may be better, it may be better, a better speaker, uh, better. I was a lawyer, a lawyer for, for a while.

So a better lawyer, no better service provider, and eventually by the salesperson, because in sales, you also, uh, need to know exactly what your, who your target audience is. You need to, to adapt your target, your messages to your target audience. You need to, to say everything in a very short time. You need to have a great elevator pitch. For example, you need to, you need to know to sell the problem for the solution. I guess we're going to talk about it. So the, the, for, for me, when I combine those methods, the, the sales system, uh, which are developed in the debate system, then, uh, it's very, very relevant. Nice. Hey, I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. I want to take a quick minute to share with you what I'm working on these days with my new JB sales membership.

It includes live monthly training delivered by me on my two signature courses, which are filling the funnel and driving a close to cover all aspects of the sales process. It also includes monthly workshops that I'll be running on specific sales skills and different tech skills like chat GPT and how to leverage AI throughout the entire sales process. Finally, the membership gives you access to my entire online catalog with every course and every tip I've ever done. And as an exclusive offer to my podcast listeners, if you go to jbarrows.com, click on the individual membership link and use coupon code podcast at checkout, you'll get 25% off. Now let's get back to the conversation. So help me. What, what's your perspective of the difference between debate and persuasion?

And the reason I asked this is because debate is you're trying to win the debate, right? You made better points than the other person. So it's more of, it's more combative as opposed to convincing. Well, or you're trying to convince somebody and sales isn't about convince. I don't believe sales about convincing anybody of anything. It's helping people solve problems or achieve goals. And I think if you're trying to convince someone in sales, you're doing it wrong. So talk to me a little bit about that transition from a debate mentality to a persuasion mentality. And what does that mean to you? Yeah. You, you, you describe it. Well, debate is like a win-lose situation because you have two sides, you know, they, if you talk about the competition, then you compete in front of judges, professional judges in front of audience.

And there is one winner and let's not call it loser, but someone wins, someone loses. Sometimes there are four teams competing with one another. And also the debate between politicians or also, uh, you know, uh, uh, advocate, uh, advocacy, uh, lawyers in court or something like that. Uh, so you have some winners, some losers, but in sales, you need to, uh, uh, to have a situation of winning situation, especially because if you try to establish a long-term relationship with, uh, with the other side, then, uh, like you said, I don't try to, to persuade someone, especially not, you know, uh, not push, uh, push, push my sales or push my ideas. I try to tell stories. I believe in a soft sale, you know, you, you don't sell to your clients, you tell them stories and they buy, you can tell lots of stories, you know, by the way, the debate method also help you how to, to become a better story, storyteller and to tell stories.

Great. So you tell stories, you can tell stories about yourself, stories about success, stories about failures, which are also very important. Maybe we'll elaborate about that, uh, stories about other clients you have, stories about social proofs and, and then people hear the stories and they love stories because from eight zero from the moment, the moment we are born, we hear stories and then they are more willing to buy from you. So debate is a win-win situation, uh, but, but it helps you become a better public speaker, a better advocate. And the sales is a win-win situation in my eyes. So how do you, cause I think, you know, I'm in this real interesting world right now where I'm moving, you know, I've done B2B sales for my entire career and, and now I'm doing some coaching, right?

Some individual one-on-one coaching and I'm finding the B2C sales process really different and interesting because, you know, B2B, it's a longer sales cycle. There's multiple people involved. So it, it is a inherently softer sale. Like you, you using a closing technique to a, somebody who's dropping up, you know, a hundred thousand dollars on something ain't going to exactly work. Right. I mean, I guess it does in some cases, but, but with individuals, it's very timely in the sense that you have them there in that moment. And legitimately, as soon as they get off that call with you, 50 other variables come into play here. And I want to be, Hey, this is your decision. I want you, I don't, I want to make sure.

But there's also that, like, if I let them go, I let them go. Even if I, so if I know it's the right thing to do, and they've said it's the right thing to do. And I, and I'm trying to find that fine line of like closing or getting them closed on in that moment versus my typical style, which is let's have this conversation. Let's identify what the need is. Let, let me tell you how I can help and figure it out. And then, you know, guide you through the process here. So how is the, the psychology around B2B sales, um, applicable or what are the, what are the connective tissue between the two and how do you kind of do that persuasion process, if you will? Yeah. Great question. First of all, I, I do B2B business.

I do B2B marketing and also B2C marketing and also B2G marketing, you know, business to government. I work with governments, with armies, with city halls, et cetera. But at the end of the day, first of all, I think it's all about people because if you, if I work with Intel or IBM or Coca-Cola, I don't work with Intel. I work with someone inside Intel who would like to work with me. And it, it, it always about people. So, uh, the common, uh, B2B marketing and B2C marketing having common is, is people. Uh, so in people, you know, our subconscious works, uh, the same way with, uh, if, if I'm a, you know, a salaried employee or, uh, um, or self-employed. I enjoy, by the way, with all, all marketing.

I think the, the difference is first of all, uh, B2C, a small medium businesses, uh, or, uh, business owners or entrepreneurs that are like a speedboat. You know, you tell them something, they can implement it immediately and they can do it, uh, the next day or the next hour. Okay. And then they see results very, very quickly. Usually they don't need to consult with everyone, everyone, anyone, they're the decision makers. So you make a lot of change. Sometimes even in one meeting or one call, one zoom, zoom meeting, uh, you can see the change and they can, uh, you know, tell you about the results, uh, a few days after. And, uh, when you talk about, about companies, again, you work with people, but like you said, the decision, the decision making process is very, very, uh, uh, long.

Usually you have few meetings, you have few people to convince. Maybe you talk to one people, but they need to convince others. So you need to write a price quote that is very persuasive because, uh, other people are going to read it and they didn't talk to you. Okay. So you need to, to go to, to have a great marketing, uh, uh, marketing writing, you know, to have a persuasion process through the document. And sometimes you need to, to address the board, address, uh, you know, a management and to convince them. And also you see the changes. If, uh, small, medium businesses owners are like speedboat and, you know, uh, companies that are like a big boat or a aircraft carrier or something like that, that the change, it takes time for, for the change to happen.

But once it happens, well, one day, for example, I also write a marketing writing, I wrote the landing pages for companies and also a, a websites and also a scripts, you know, a sense scripts. So once they implement the script to all the employees or all the, you know, branches or something like that, then it will happen. The change will happen. Uh, and, uh, so the change maybe takes more time, but it, uh, uh, let's say they implemented on more people and it influence more people. So again, it's, it's people, but maybe the process is a little bit different when you talk to B2B, B2B market and B2C market. So you talk about kind of a persuasion process. And I think it's, it's awareness, trust, buying, right?

Is there a universal, um, process that you bring through or structure that you bring people through from a persuasion standpoint? And if not like, you know, how is it segmented? And could you give us some examples of what that might be like from a tactical? Yeah. First of all, I think the, the basic model is no like trust model because before people buy from you, again, it's not, it's not relevant if they are, they have a small business. So there are managers in a international company, they need first of all, to know you, they need to know you, that you are there, that they're relevant, that if they seek for, for a salesperson or or mentor or whatever, each service or product, then you're relevant in your market in order to know, to, to, to get to, for them to get to know you, we need to be relevant and you need to be in as many platforms as possible, social media and website and blog and, and then, and media coverage and et cetera.

And the second step after they get to know you, they need to like you. Now, how can they like you if they, if they didn't start working with you? So first of all, you need to be likable in during the sense, the, you know, the sales call or say by phone or by zoom or by a one-on-one meeting or something like that. They can also like you if they read an article or if they saw your video or if they saw your blog or if they saw your, you know, a TikTok or YouTube channel or something like that. And after step number one, they get to know you, step number two, they get to like you. And then step number three, they get to, they need to trust you. And it's very, very important because, you know, we are in an era in a very saturated market and we have lots of competitors and everyone claimed they're great, you know, because I, I never, never heard of a vendor meeting a client and tell him, you know, I'm a mediocre, but please choose me.

Okay. Everyone says they're experts and they're great, everything. So what is the difference between someone is expert and someone is not? The, the social proofs, you know, the, the track record, the, the, let's say objective evidence I can show you about my famous clients, the amount of clients I have, the amount of years I've been doing this, you know, formal certificates, you know, my, my formal activity, books I wrote, lectures I provided, you know, media coverages I got, success stories, et cetera. So, and then they get to, to trust you because of your social proof. And only after they get to know you and then like when you trust, they will buy from you for the first time. And then you need to establish, you know, to have upsell and cross-sell and to establish a long-term relationship.

So this is the basic model. Now, this is the strategic model. We can also go to the tactic, which is, for example, set the problem before the solution, identify their problems and needs. And then, and then, let's say, present yourself or your products and services as a, a answer to the need or a solution to the problem. Okay. So I want to get to the, I want to go back to the like thing. Can you skip that step? And the reason I ask is because I've always said, I don't need to like you, but I need to trust you. And, you know, you think of the doctor, you know, a typical doctor and a surgeon and some doctors are just straight up assholes. You know what I mean? Like they have no bedside manner. I wouldn't have a beer with this person to save my life, but I trust them implicitly to fix, you know, do the surgery on my hip or whatever it might be.

So I know that's not sales, but because I have a problem that's defined. And by the time I get to them, they're the expert, expert, but how can you skip the like factor to get to trust? I don't recommend it. I will tell you why, because if you need to choose first, a great example, let's talk about doctors. If you need to choose between two doctors, which you can't identify, which is better professionally. Okay. Because, you know, you know, you don't know, you don't know their stuff. And one is very, very nice. And one is, is an asshole. Okay. So we go to the nice one. Actually, I also walk with, with a medical center, medical centers and with hospitals. And one of the, you know, many, many doctors are like you described that they are assholes, but they are good what they do.

But if you're an asshole to the staff, to the clients, to the, to the patients, when we will have, we will have a problem and everyone, you know, sometimes they sleep, you know, they, they get, they get a bad judgment, you know, they, they are night. So, you know, they, they get it wrong with the solution or something like that. Then everyone will wait for you in the corner, you know, when everyone will wait to see you fall. So, so I will say it, it doesn't necessarily either you, they like you or they trust you. I, I, I vote for like and trust specifically in the digital era, because people are looking for humanity, more humanity, not, not just the, the solution, because I can also ask the chat what they recommend, you know, and AI and not, not the regular doctor.

But if I come to a doctor and I spent time and money and I parked my car and I, and I, I waited for, for, you know, a long time in the reception hall or something like that. And then I got into a doctor and I only have a few minutes. I expect the doctor to treat me well and to look in my eyes and to be nice to me and, and maybe even to hear me for a little bit and not just, you know, check me without saying anything. I'll be an asshole or something like that. And specifically in the, we've talked about private, uh, medical care, because if I go to a private doctor, I pay thousands and hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars. I won't go back to, to an asshole. And I can tell you for my personal experience as a client also, not just with my clients, but also as a client, when I went to doctors with that, that they were highly recommended.

So I, you get the trust, right? And because, uh, people like respect told me about them and I went and they treat me badly. I never got back. I never got back. So, uh, I think, uh, people need to like you. They don't need to love you. They don't need to drink with you and now, uh, beer after, after work or something like that. But, but it's very easy to be likable by the way. This is something I teach in my books and my, my, my lectures. Um, even if you don't, you know, I think first of all in sales, the, the first principle in sales is love you, love your clients. You know, if you love your clients, you will be good in sales. If you don't like people, you don't love the interaction with people, you will be, you will be lousy in sales.

It's also like in public speaking, love your audience for principle. Number one, if you, if you love your audience, the audience will love you back. If you don't love your audience, you are on stage, you got the time, people won't relate to you. So it's very, very easy to be like a likable. First of all, you need to love people, but maybe this is the hard part, but afterwards, you know, just smile and just ask some questions. And people, people are, uh, you know, uh, they, they want to talk. They, they're looking to, for someone to listen to them, especially if it's a professional. So, so here, hear them out, and then they address their problems that they will, uh, they will love you. By the way, there is there, there are researchers about lawyers as well in courthouses that, for example, if I go to a courthouse and I'm a client and there is a judge, if the judge will let me speak.

Okay. Not just my attorney, they will let me speak and I will speak. I will lack the procedure, even if the result is not in my favor, you know? So, but if for example, uh, they will say, no, no, no, be quiet. Your lawyer will speak. They will give my lawyer one minute. And then just the judge says, okay, okay. I got, I got the verdict. Okay. I will, I will feel lousy. I will feel lousy that, uh, no, I didn't got my, my day in court. Yeah. So can you accelerate trust? So say, say we've, you know, we're at least likable, right? In a, especially in a B2B sales setting, how do you accelerate trust? Social proof is one of those pieces, obviously. Other ways that you can accelerate trust, because I think that's a big part of it right now is to me, trust, and quite frankly, trust is a lot.

Yes. I need to like this person, but I make a lot of decisions where I'll call up somebody I know who I trust, who is using somebody else. And I'll say, Hey, in my literal question is, do you trust this person? And if I, and if they say, yes, I trust them, then it's, then I jump all the way through and I'm like, all right, cool. We're ready to go. I mean, I did that with a, my agent recently, you know, uh, back about a year ago, I was like, man, I wish there was like a LinkedIn agent thing. Like somebody in my buddy was like, I got a guy for you. He's been working with me. And so I talked to him. He seemed like a good kid, got a good background, but my, my immediate question, I called my, my buddy right back.

And I said, I like him. He seems pretty good. Do you trust him? And he said, yep. And I called the kid back up and I said, all right, let's get going here. So he, that is obvious way to, to, you know, expedite trust. Are there other ways that, um, you talk about referrals. So referrals are very, very, very powerful tools for, uh, for sales, because we talked about no like trust and only then buy. So if I ask you, John, do you know a great plumber? And you say, yeah, yeah, I know a great plumber. It's a, you know, Brian called him. Okay. Then I don't know Brian, but I know you and I know you and I like you and I trust you. And I say to myself, well, John is a serious guy. I won't recommend someone who was not serious.

And you also, if Brian did your job for you or something like that. So when I call Brian, uh, let's say 80% of the sales already done because I come very, very, uh, uh, uh, eager to, to buy. And then if Brian won't mess it up, you know, for example, not be nice to me or so, or something like that, then, then I will buy from them. So referrals are very, very powerful tool that I recommend to use it. We talked about, um, a social social proof. Social proof is a very wide definition because I can tell you about my success. I can show you my success and I can also put my success in every platform. So if you look me up, you Spotify, Google, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, whatever LinkedIn, you will find the details I would like you to find.

For example, the description will be the same description, uh, about my success. For example, if I wrote books, then you will see that the front cover of the books everywhere or something like that. So, so for you go to a restaurant, for example, you see, you see, uh, pictures of famous clients who visited the restaurant sometimes 50 years ago, something like that in black and white pictures. So you can say in the subconscious level, in the conscious level, you will say, why? Because, you know, we are 20, 25, uh, those pictures from 1970. Okay. And then this person is, or is dead. Okay. And, and there were, there was a different owner of the restaurant and different chef. So why it's relevant for me?

So this is the conscious level speaking, but in the subconscious level, you say, oh, if this famous client was here, and if this restaurant exists for more than 50 years, and if this guy chose to eat here, then it means it's good. This is a subconscious level. This is how it works. So, so you don't, don't just say, say things. You also, you also show them. And another thing that will make you trust me is if I tell you failures, failures about me. We talked about stories that not just stories about success, because everyone, again, if you have success, tell it, tell it, don't be, don't be humble. I always say, uh, always say that social proof is for shy people and humble people, because I'm not telling you, I'm a great guy.

I know what I'm doing. I'm highly experienced. I'm great because everyone would say it. Everyone, like I said, no way vendor ever said I'm a mediocre. Please choose me. Everyone said claim to be an expert, but the difference is the social proof. So stories about success are very important, but also stories about failures, because if I try to tell you that everything is great, all my clients are satisfied, all my products are great, 100% satisfaction, you will, it, you won't relate to me because you say something is fishy, right? And in 2025, uh, people have, uh, I call it, uh, a fake radar or a bullshit radar that they know something says that this, the, the, the, the world of sales changed dramatically in the past decade, because a message that we used to walk five, 10, 15 years ago, they don't walk anymore.

You know, see my, my beautiful wife, see my penthouse, you know, see my, my beautiful, beautiful car. It's been, I'm successful. It's not, it's not good anymore. It's not enough anymore. If it's true. So tell about also about this, um, about failures. And there is, um, I work with high tech companies in high tech companies. There's the, there is a line of, uh, of lectures of, uh, speaking gigs. It's called fuck up nights. What is fuck up nights? Entrepreneurs telling other entrepreneurs about the failures. Now there is a twist because usually the story goes like this. In my first company, I lost $100 million of investors. My second company, I got bankrupt and divorced. And my third company is PayPal.

You know, it's usually, it's a, it's a failure, failure success story, but you, you won't hear stories like my first company. I lost $100 million of investors. The second company I got bankrupt that today I'm homeless, living with my wife's parents or something. Usually it's failure, failure success, but the entrepreneurs, they, they love to hear about the journey, about the failures. So, and I always tell my clients, you need to be authentic. And they tell also about your failures again, not, not invent failures. You be, be authentic and be, be honest, but, but be, I always tell them be Batman and not Superman. Okay. And also tell us to our listeners, what is the difference between Batman and Superman?

Because they are both superheroes, right? And the, and they both look like human beings, but, but Superman is not a human being. He came from another planet. So if Superman will deliver a workshop, how to fly, and I will buy a ticket for the first row, a VIP ticket. I will sit and they will explain exactly what to do. Go to the highest tower, go to the roof, check the wind, check your first step. I will do exactly what he says. I'm still going to fall because he came from another planet. And I'm just a human being, but Batman will deliver the same workshop, how to fly. And I will sit in the first row. And he will tell me, you know, and if you and I were like, actually I had the, I had the worst life because the Joker murdered my parents when I was young and I fell into a cave and I was afraid of bats and afraid of darkness.

But then I taught myself how to fly and let me teach you. So this guy can relate to because, because he also had this struggle, you know, and had the, had the shit your life and, and had the, what I call the resurrection, you know, he rose again and then I can learn from his mistakes. And this is what people like. So how to sell, how to, to become a likable. First, tell about your success. Second, tell about your failures. Okay. And thirdly, love your audience. So let's, let's, let's, let's explore that. What, what was, what's one of your biggest quote unquote failures that, that you've learned from, or that other people can learn from? Many, many mistakes. I mean, in my books, by the way, I tell many, many stories of faders, both mine and my, my, my, my clients.

And also I analyze some things that happened there outside in the world, but I can tell you, first of all, that one of what, one of the things I learned is not, not mention competitors. Talk about yourself and think creatively and not competitively. And, uh, I think at that one time, one time, many years ago, I did a webinar. It was late at night. And, um, and I, you know, you know how it is. You work very hard to, to gather audience for the webinar. I think 300 people signed for the webinar. And in that night I, I, um, scheduled it a month ago, a month before. So at that night there was, I think a semifinals of, uh, of champions league. And there was the final of American idol, something like that.

And I began, I began, uh, my, my webinar. And, uh, the, the first instinct you have is to empower the audience, right? So I told everyone, uh, hi friends, uh, welcome to the webinar. I'm happy that you're here. And I'm happy that you chose me and not to, to, to watch a football in the champions league, uh, semifinals. And then when I tell, I, I see the side, you know, 300 people downgrade to 200 people, 100 people left, they left the room and I didn't realize yet. So I say, and of those of you who don't like soccer, um, uh, very happy that you chose me and not American idol to see the finals. I, I, I, I left, I, I will, I, I was, um, maybe, maybe 50 or 80 people stayed. So I said, okay, okay, okay.

Nevermind. Just let, let's start the webinar. And then I chose, and then the lesson was not, don't talk about the competition because the people didn't sign for me because they had a decision not to watch American idols, watch Dr. Evzai. They did sign for the webinar and did check the TV, what's going on TV because they scheduled. But when I told them there was competition, then I actually, um, shot myself in the leg. You know, I turned them to the competition and the competition here is to attention. You know, the CEO of Netflix told in an interview that the biggest competition he has is the sleep is sleep time because, uh, because people don't have much time in the day to watch TV. So you said I would like people to sleep less and watch Netflix and watch the series and, uh, talk about manipulation.

Sorry. Uh, the, these social platforms and these movie platforms are, I think the, the bad version of persuasion and manipulation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Certainly trying to make us not sleep firmly trying to defy us. And there's no like positive intentions here. So I have a very, it's like, it's like all the love apps, you know, like Tinder, et cetera. They don't, they don't want you to, to be, to find your spouse. They want you to, uh, to have a formal fear of missing out every time, every time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of the sad part. Um, and you brought up competitors. Cause I think that's another interesting one to dive into from a sales standpoint. Yeah. I mean, the competitors are competitors, but I, I came to a similar realization, I think early in my career that unfortunately I, I was selling too much against my competitors and not to my customer.

And so I would lose deals, not because I lost to the competitor. I lost because I wasn't selling to the client. And so when you talk about failures and talking about things you don't do well, how much, you know, there's a, there's a concept in objection handling and sales about the preemptive strike where, you know, the objection, you, you have a feeling the objection might come up like you're too expensive or whatever it is. So you bring it up early, right? You're like, Hey, look, we're not the most, we're not the cheapest, whatever. Um, or you're up against competition. And, and obviously we're all taught not to talk shit about our competition, but what I tend to do is I tend to boost them up on something they're really good at.

But obviously through my discovery, I try to find the areas that I'm really good at and focus on that. So how do you, what's kind of your overarching approach to competition in general? Do you even engage with them or think about them in any way, or do you set the landmines? Do you bring them up proactively? How do you, how do you deal with that in a B2B? Great. First of all, great question. Uh, my, my approach today after 22 years of experience is also self-development process that I've been doing is, uh, I can tell you, I, uh, first of all, don't call it competition. I call it colleagues. I treat them as colleagues, not my competitors. I don't talk about them at all. I don't, uh, if I talk to clients, I don't talk about them at all.

I refer only to myself, only to my achievements, only to my failures, all we talked about a more, in most cases. And also this is what I teach companies. In most cases, uh, our clients won't talk about, about the competitive competition. By the way, sometimes they don't know the competition. So if you'd say I am, and I am better than B and C in most cases, the reaction will be who, who, who is B, who is C, and they will go to, uh, to ask for price quotes from B and C as well. So most people, they, they reached you because they saw you on Facebook, all LinkedIn, on YouTube, they, they got a referral, you know, they, they, they need you. They don't know everyone else. So if don't, don't mention competition, don't talk about competition.

And even if client tells you, you know, you need, okay, I got your price quote, but here is the price quote of B and C. What do you say about them? Or I also met them. What do you say? I always say, I, I, I treat only myself. I don't talk about them at all. And sometimes if it's a, it's a good colleague that I am in my friends with or something else, I would say, okay, they are great. I don't start comparing, you know, they are great, but they do a hard sale. I do soft sale and they don't have 22 years of experience, just 10. And I have, I don't do it because if you talk shit about them, they will talk shit about you or, you know, in a, in a more spiritual way, let's call it, the universe will get even, will get, will, will, will revenge you, you know?

So, so for example, if you do, karma is a bitch, you know? So if you talk dirty about people, if they don't know it, and it doesn't sound, sound great, it doesn't sound object, honestly, it doesn't sound professional, you know, if you're an expert, then focus on yourself. So this is my approach. So what do you do? Thankfully, I don't, you know, I haven't experienced this too much, but I know a lot of reps do that. They, they have a competitor that does talk shit, like constantly, you know what I mean? They bold face lie to the clients about what they can and what you're about and you know it and you've lost deals because of it, right? It's one thing if they're out there talking shit and given a negative opinion and they're, and we're still winning, whatever.

But there are some, you know, not so great, you know, companies and professional sales professionals out there that will bold face lie about what they can do about what you can't do. So how do you, if you know that competitors in your, in this deal, how do you, how do you address that? If at all? Great question. Again, we talked earlier about win-win situation in comparison to a win-lose situation. So if I am politician, I need to address it because at the end of the day, the voter would need to vote me or the other guy. Okay. But in business, I believe in a, let's say in creative thinking, not a competitive thinking. So there is a room for everyone. So if I, by the way, if I like my, my colleagues, again, not competitive colleagues, and I am, I have a great relationship with everyone, one, then most likely they won't talk shit about me.

But if someone would talk shit about me and I know it, I, I will, I will personally call them. And I did it in many, many, many times before also in, in behalf of my, my clients. So maybe that I recommend call them and talk to them and be friends with them. And then we'll say, well, well, we are competitive. So we're colleagues. There is enough clients for everyone. Okay. But again, if clients addresses you, you talk only about yourself, by the way, people don't like people that talk shit about others. You know, for example, if you, if you are now a boss and you interview someone, some employee and a potential employee, and they talk shit about their former boss. So what do you, what do you think in the subconscious level in a year from now, they will talk shit about me.

Okay. You don't say, ah, great. I am better than the former boss. No, no. We say this guy, it's a typical behavior. They will talk shit about me in a year from now. So people don't like it, especially today. And people are like, as like I said, there, there, there is, there is a fake radar, a bullshit radar, by the way, social proof is a great tool for that because I can tell you as, as much as I, as I can, as I, as I want about our, our expert and I, and then to talk lies, but it's very, very easy today to identify the lies. You know, I can tell you about the clients I have. If I don't have them, you can find it in one, one, one phone call. Okay. I can, I don't, I can't invent, you know, a success.

I can invent, uh, uh, let's say a tracker code. Okay. Because at the end of the day, either I did exit or not, either, uh, either I, you know, have 1000 clients or not. So I can tell you numbers. And if I do it, if I lie, then you can lie to, you know, a few people, a few times, you can't lie to all the people, all the time. We talked about long-term relationships. So I, at the end of the day, personally, I would like to sleep well at night. So if someone has talked dirty, they need to live with themselves. I need to live with myself. Yeah. So you talk one, I think the last book was 10 commandments, uh, that you put together. The 21st century sales Bible, 10 commandments of how to become better salesperson and marketing person.

So in there, you talked about branding yourself as an expert. Yeah. Um, you and I can do that. We've been around the block for a little while we've been, uh, through the business, right? We have some social proof there. How does a 22, 23, 24 year old kid brand themselves as an expert? Because I've had this conversation before of like, Oh, build your brand. And, and, and it's always funny to me. Cause I say, look, you know, you and I usually sales consultant, I'll say that. And I'll say, uh, you and I sell sales consulting to sales reps and we're in sales. So it's really easy for us to build our brand and be, you know, brand yourself as an expert. But what about that 22 year old kid who's trying to sell to a CISO and, and, and it has no idea about cybersecurity and, and you're like, how do you start to brand yourself as an expert when you are not?

A great question. I don't know when you started, but I started when I was 23 years old, uh, my business and I was very young. And I started sales when I was 12 years old, I sold the flowers in the junction when I was 12 years old. So I've been doing sales, uh, with no experience, with no experience whatsoever, like more, like most people. But my definition of an expert, first of all, is very wide because let's, let's, let's, I love the examples about restaurants. Let's say you go to a restaurant, you have in a conference, you have in a conference, you have a break, the lunch break, you don't have much time to go to the restaurant, a waitress comes and then you ask her, what do you recommend?

Let's, let's think about it for a minute. Why do you ask her? I'm 48 years old. Maybe she's 21 years old. Usually I don't consult with 21 years old. She, she represents the restaurant, not me. And so obviously she was going to offer me what the chef told her to offer. Um, I, I, maybe I, I tell her, please decide for me what to enter into my body, you know, maybe I, I don't know where I'm healthy or something like that. But why do I do it? Because now I consider her as an expert because I don't have much time. I don't know the restaurant. I don't know the menu, but she knows it. And she walks here. The default of most people is to consult with an expert. Okay. I don't mind. She's younger than me.

And she's maybe a doctor. Maybe she didn't finish high school. I don't care. She knows something that I don't. I would like to ask her because she can shorten my learning curve because I have other options. I can gamble. You know, I can say, okay, I don't ask anyone. Just, uh, I, I hesitate between this dish and this dish, bring me this dish, but then it's a go, uh, win, win. Um, it's a go, no go situation because after 20 minutes, the dish comes and then either it's tasty or not. If it's not tasty, then I don't have time to replace it or something like that. And I can also choose all the menu. I can say, okay, I don't want to gamble. Just bring me five dishes. It's, it's wrong. It's, it's expensive.

People won't do it. So our default is to, to consult with experts. So experts doesn't need to be with 20 years of experience or to be a PhD or professor, or I don't know, a commander in the army or something like that. An expert is someone who did the way you want to do. Okay. Already did it. And you can, they can shorten your learning curve. So this 20, back to your question, this 22 years old, he can say, and he needed to say, he does need to say, I have 20 years of experience. Okay. Because he's only 22 years old, but he can leverage his current achievements. For example, if he is 22 years old and he has an experience of three years in sales, for example, or he was in a boy, he was instructing Boy Scouts or something like that.

And now he's a, he would like to be an instructor of something, or he did this in armies, as an army, as he served in army, or he volunteered in some organizations or he studied in college. He was excellent in his studying or something like that. Then you can take the achievements they already have. By the way, in my workshop, I always tell people, each one of you have at least, at least 10 social proofs. And I started right with them because usually the first one or two is easy. I'm a graduate of a degree, this and this. Okay. This is one and two, but to, to reach 10, it's, it's more difficult, but every 22 years old, there's at least 20, 20, 10 or 20 social proofs. So you need to take these social proofs and leverage it to have better achievements.

And obviously, if you keep evolving and develop yourself and your business, when you will be further, you're 45 years old, you have much more accomplished than you're talking about them. Okay. For example, I am a lawyer and economist. Okay. And when I did also, I was an officer and a lieutenant in the Israeli air force. And so when I tried to, to, to be in a, to be a, to become a lawyer and you go to university, what do you do, do they see? They see the SATs. Okay. And they see the grades you had in high school. Right. And then you start, this is the, the way, this is the ticket to, to a big, to, to a good university. And then you start learning in university. And now I, I was, I joined the, into when I was 23 years old university, because I did the four years army.

And then you go to the university. And then after two years, you try to become to, to get an internship. Right. So you go to many law firms. What do they see now? They, they look for the grades you have in this, in the two years of university. No, the grades of high school are not relevant anymore. So they, they look for this. And they also would like to see accommodation letters of your, of your lecturers, you know, of your professors from the academy. And then I finished the law and I got the, I was, I did the internship and I did my, my exams, my, the law bar, and I passed the law bar and I'm a lawyer. And this is the path I am. I was also already self-employed. But if I would go to law firms, what do they will look?

They will look for accommodation from the internship and the, the, the grade you got in the low bar, in a low bar, you know, the, the bar exam. Okay. So, so each stage you, you will, you know, deal the cards you have. Okay. I can't do it when I was 20 years old, but I can't do it when I was 25 years old. So each time we need to leverage your achievements. Gotcha. Okay. Um, let's finish up with this in this new weird world of AI. Um, you talk about one of the other, uh, tenants and the 10 commandments is, you know, you gotta sell market and sell differently now than you did previously. And I think the, the general premise is, is stop pushing, right. And start pulling and start, you know, but with AI leveled up here, you know, I have a, I have a very distinct fear of the vast majority of sales professionals becoming obsolete because the AI I can answer the vast majority of questions that most sales reps go through the process about.

And so if the sales rep isn't adding value in every conversation, and I mean like no matter what and where and when, so what do you see from a persuasion, from a psychology standpoint, any of that, that has fundamentally changed at, or that we have to fundamentally change if we want to be successful moving forward? Uh, great question. So first of all, I think in there, there is a evolution now of AI. And I think that we talked about becoming an expert. So to become an expert is nice, is not a nice to have. It's must have, because if you're not an expert and AI can replace you, because if you are mediocre, then AI can replace you even today. And if you're good at what you do and you're an expert in each field, then AI will become your friend and your colleague and not your competitor and not your replacement.

So every salesperson, they need to excel in sales. They need to excel in communication skills. I think about what I teach, uh, because you know, AI is not, um, is not, uh, human. And you can say to AI, you can say to chat, okay, now write me this text in a more human way or something like that. But it's that like person. Okay. And we talked about the people have a fake radar and a bullshit radar. They also have an AI radar, you know, for example, my, my wife is in recruitment and she says when she got the CV or no, she immediately can, can tell if the person wrote it or an AI wrote for the person or something like that. So you can use AI, I can become your friend, but you eventually people are looking for the personal touch.

In sales, I'm talking about the personal touch. They, they looking for the, the, the, for, for your humanity. They look for authenticity. They look for honesty and all of those things. Uh, people can, can deliver them. And, um, even in an AI era and the digital era, uh, and, uh, you, you can be, you can, you can be a great salesperson. And another thing I recommend, I can give you two examples is, um, uh, to join the revolution, join, to become an expert, join the revolution. I can give you two examples, how I do, um, uh, use AI, but by the way, I'm not a technological guy. I have great technological stuff. Uh, and I do a lot of cooperation regarding AI. So, uh, two of those corporations, first of all, I wrote books.

So 20 years ago, the world, or there was also print book and 15 years ago, there was also ebook and 10 years ago, there was also audio book, audio book. And now the new, the new thing in the market is an avatar AI of the author. For example, if you buy a nonfiction book, then most people, they don't know how to implement the book after they read it. For you, you wrote, you read in a book about the negotiation, and then you have an action negotiation. Two weeks later, you don't have the author of the book next to you, but now you can buy, and this is what I sell part of the thing with a American company, it's called wisdom and avatar AI of the author. You can subscribe to my avatar and then you can ask me questions and the avatar AI, not like chat GPT was in general.

The avatar AI is based on all of my materials, all of my books and the book you read, etc. So then you have a negotiation and people ask you something and then you can say, okay, Dr. Nivzai, what you've said, and my avatar will talk to you in my voice and they will tell you what to do. It's a great cooperation. This is my way to join the revolution. And another example is that I joined a company from England, from Manchester, it's called Callmarker. Callmarker, they work with B2B with call centers. And they have a software they sell to B2B, to companies, to call centers, to many, many people. And one of the challenges of people in sales is if you manage many people, you have the mediocrats, you have the great ones, they do lots of mistakes, they burn lots of leads.

And then the feature, they added the feature of avatar AI, it's called plugin of me. And then let's say, imagine that you talk to someone, I sit next to your shoulder and I give you notes, you know, they said they work with this and this, tell them we did this and this, okay? And now they said, you answered wrong about it's too pricey for me, this is what you need to say, etc. So there is an avatar AI plugin of Dr. Nevzai, they can buy as a feature to the software. And then all 20 or 40 or 50 people in the call center, they talk and online, there is a like a Dr. Nevzai sit next to them and tell them what to do online. So this, again, it's based on all of my methods and books and etc. So this is the way that for me, as a non-technological person who don't work personally much with AI, I can join the revolution because I am an expert and because I am likable and because I do cooperation with many things, I don't see it as a competition, but as colleagues.

Nice. Yeah, I think it's augmentation, not automation, right? And if you can use it the right way, it's a superpower. If you look to automate, you're kind of automating yourself out of a job. So I think that's where we'll finish it up, Dr. Nevzai. So it's been a pleasure talking to you, my friend. Where can people learn more about what you do in the books and all the other, the AI bot and everything else? Yeah, first of all, so you can check my website, it's drpersuasion.com, D-R-P-R-S-U-A-S-I-O-N.com. And also, you can find Nevzai, Y-A-N-I-V-Z-A-I-D in all of the social media platforms, you know, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook, etc. I can also provide you with my personal email, it's yaniv@yanivzai.com, Y-A-N-I-V-Z-A-I-D.com.

And also, you can feel free to ask me a question, and I will be happy to answer any question you may have. My new release book is that the 21st Century Sales Bible is now on bookstores in North America and many other places worldwide, also on Amazon. It was translated to 12 languages so far, and it's very successful in many countries, including Russia, and China, and Vietnam, and India, and France, and also the United States and Canada. So feel free to check me and check the book. And again, yaniv@yanivzai.com. I wait for you to answer, to ask me questions. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. Perfect. Awesome, my friend. Well, thank you very much. It's been a pleasure having a conversation with you.

Thank you very much, John. It's great being here. And everybody, hopefully you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. And like I say at the end of all these podcasts, go out there and make somebody smile today, because no matter how bad your day went or how bad you think it's going, if you make somebody smile, you know you had a good day, and the world needs a lot more of that right now. So thank you all very much, and I will see you on the other side. Hey, everyone. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. With your support and our incredible guests, we're one of the top sales podcasts out there right now, and I can't thank you enough. Now, to keep the momentum going, it would mean the world to me if you could go and leave a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform and share some of your favorite episodes with your network.

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