When the Grind Almost KILLS You with Roderick Jefferson

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Now, this is a very special episode because this is a very special friend of mine. He's been on the show before, but this time we had the conversation about what he's gone through and I think it's a conversation that more people need to hear because we know right now, specifically, a lot of people are going through some shit. But when you hear Roderick Jefferson's story about the shit that he went through, I hope it gives you some perspective. And I really recommend you take a look at his book called The Stroke of Success. And if you haven't heard his story before, he had a 2% chance of living after he had a stroke. Stuck in the hustle culture, flying all over the place, and came out on the other side.

With a whole new perspective on life that I think is an important one for people to hear. Roderick is a dear friend of mine. When he was going through that stroke, there was times where he felt like giving up. And he talks about that. And I remember texting him every day while he was going through it to stay connected with him because he meant that much to me. And I consider him family over friendship, over anything else. He was family. And so this conversation was a little heavy. I'm going to admit that up front. A few tears a little bit. Even now that I think about it. But it's a blessing to have him as a friend, him in my life. And I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. And I ask you to support him in this message.

Buy his book. Go on Amazon. If you're a sales leader or a leader in an organization, and you're looking for a keynote that is different than some dipshit little sales idiot like me stepping on a pod stage, but you're looking for some inspiration and some perspective, have Roderick do your keynote. And I promise he'll bring that perspective in a whole different light and help you start off the new year in a way that is different and better. So, like I said, I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I think it's going to be hard to because I enjoy it every time I talk to him. But let's make it happen. Roderick, my brother from another mother, Jefferson, how are you, my friend? Man, I am better now that we're together, brother.

I have been counting down to this one ever since I saw you last in San Francisco. And then I saw you before the last time when I came out to Boston, which is crazy to me because we can talk sporadically and it still feels like we just talked two days ago. And to me, that's family. That's family. That's real family. That's chosen family is what it is. Yeah. We've talked about this, man. Like you, you know, you can't choose your family and, and you and I have become closer than most of my family and, and, and I genuinely appreciate everything that you are, everything you've been for me as far as a friend, as a support and all that stuff. So I've been, every time I talk to you, I feel good, you know, about life, about everything else.

So I've been looking forward to this conversation too, man. Let's, let's dive into this because here's the, here's, I mean, you just, you just wrote this book and we were just talking about it before we came on here about the 2%. And I remember when you told me and, and when, when you were going through it. And so let's set the stage here for everybody to understand what happened. Because I think from an inspiration standpoint, I have a hard time wrapping my head around anything other that can be more inspiring than your story right now, my friend. And I think a lot of people need to hear this to let them know that, you know, we're all going through some shit right now. Like everybody, I don't know anybody out there right now that ain't struggling.

Man, life is life in right now, like no time before. It is. And no question on that. But I think this will give some people some perspective on that. And that's why I think this is an incredibly important story to get out there and a book that, that, that you wrote and a message, uh, because I think people need to hear it. So before I dive into the book and ask you some questions about the different chapters and the different learning lessons, why don't we back up a little bit and tell people what happened? Sure. So let's go back to the future. Because when I wrote the book and you've read it now, I wrote it like it was a play because it still almost feels like it was somebody else's life. So I wrote it in, in kind of three chapters.

The first is before that is, I was an executive in corporate for 30 years, right? Got up to SVP, had the big title, the big salary, the big org flying around in, you know, corporate jets and helicopters and having dinner with Obama and those kinds of things. I don't say that as ego. That was just life. You know, you watched it all happen. All right. But the problem is when you get to that definition of quote unquote success, it takes a lot out of you. And, you know, I miss my daughter. You know, I missed my daughter's eighth grade graduation. I was missing my son's football games. I'm missing his dance competitions. I remember one time I came home and I had been out on the road for like 10 days, two weeks.

And I was like, you know what? I just really want greasy taco. Right? Because you know how it is when you're in hotels, you got the powder, eggs and all that over and over. Courtyard Marriott, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then I can walk around a Marriott room with the lights off and not bump anything for as much as we've both stayed in them. Right? And I remember my son looking at me. He goes, Dad, Tuesday's shake and bake night. And I went, oh, shoot. I see what's happening. There's a whole life happening without me. Now, because of ego, I had convinced myself that I'm providing and I'm protecting and I'm doing this and that. Right? I'm giving them a great lifestyle when all they wanted was me to be a part of it.

And so, fast forward, excuse me, I'm in L.A. So, I live up in San Francisco Bay Area. I'm in L.A. on a walkthrough site visit for an SKL for one of the companies I was working with. Everything was fine. Wednesday, it was good. We're walking up the hotel around the property, checking everything out. End of the night, we go to dinner, grab a couple cocktails. And I know that was my last great goose and pineapple. I knew exactly what day because it was that day. Right? And I got really tired. Not like, you know, sports where it was double days for football or the first day starting basketball season. It was a tired like I had never felt, man. And then I woke up and my head was down on the table and people were looking at me like, dude, are you okay?

Yeah, I'm just a little tired. I head off to bed just like every other night. The next morning I wake up. So, my wife and I, whenever I'm on the road, we always go back and forth. What are the kids up to? How's the family doing? Here's what I got going on today. I did that and it didn't sound right to her. To me, it sounded like you're here now. But to her, I was slurring. So, she walked me through. She's like, what's your middle name? I don't know. She goes, okay, that's a problem. Jump on FaceTime with me. Count to 10. 1, 2, 47, 94, 26. ABCs. I'm like, come on, dude. A, B, L, Q, W, Z, Y. And she said, look at me. I need to see if your face is drooping because you've had a stroke. Now, keep in mind that 98% of sleep stroke victims never wake up.

So, thus, that's how I got into the 2% club, right? So, to net it all up, imagine you survive a stroke in your sleep. They give you 2% chance of survival. And you wake up with a whole new mission focused on not just success, but first recovery. Then that would lead to resilience and determination and grit and all those things. And if that wasn't enough, let me fast forward, forward, forward. I get back to the Bay Area, and I flew back to the Bay Area. They only kept me in the emergency room for 90 minutes. Let that one sink in. What? Yeah. Because they checked my heart because I've got hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Remember Reggie Lewis and Hank Gathers? Oh, I know. Both of them. They were both Celtics, man.

Yeah. I have the same thing, but they caught it early with me, thankfully. Thank God, yeah. So, he checked my heart, but he never checked my brain. Now, I'm slurring so much, you can't tell what I'm saying. But I was in an affluent, I'm going to tell you, an affluent white area in Southern California. And the only people that came in of color normally were drug addicts. So, he thought, I'm coming in to get my fix. And I'm like, dude, I'm almost dead here. So, I leave. I go to the airport. I fly back. I get off the plane in a wheelchair. They wheeled me out to my son and my wife. And I'm knocked out. I mean, conked out. They're like, is he alive? Take me to the hospital. And that's when they started doing all of the stroke protocol.

And we're like, the normal heart squeezes at about 65 to 75% on average. When it gets down to 20%, cardiac arrest, you're dead. When I rolled into the hospital, I was at 22% heart function. 2% chance to live throughout the night. Not just forever, but through that night. Jesus. And you did. And I made it. I made it. Sort of. And I say, sort of. So, again, fast forward. I'd been there for about 10, 12 days. And I was having a hard time breathing. And I remember, all of a sudden, I hear, code blue. The lights are flashing. The machines are going nuts. And it's my room. And so, now is where it gets really crazy. I hear, beep. Sean, I'm flatlined, brother. I'm gone. And I don't leave. I don't go see a white light or anything like that.

But what I did do is float up to the corner of the room. And I'm looking down on them working on my body. Chest compression, sucking fluids out of me. And it's weird because it's kind of like when you go to the dentist and you get gas or twilight. Where you can hear stuff and it's mumble and muffled, but you can't really move. Now, bear in mind, at this point, my entire left side is paralyzed. I can't see because I've got snow blindness, which is not darkness, which is like bright light in my face all the time. So, I had no concept of time. Is it daytime, nighttime? No, it's just bright for me all the time. So, I look to my left. It's my mom. I saw that in the book. Your audience doesn't know.

But you know. My mama died in 99. No. And so, she came and I said, okay, mama, I'm ready to go. It's time to go. And she said, I remember her words clearly. No, baby. I was sent to tell you that you're going to be okay and they're going to work this out. I said, okay, good. I got questions. Mom, mama, she's gone. Now, I'm sucked back into my body and I'm laying flat. And they're doing chest compression and my chest is killing me. Right? And then I hear the word that nobody wants to hear. Clear. I'm like, oh, no, this cannot be good. So, he's rubbing the paddles and he's coming down to zap me. And bear in mind, I'm still flatlining. And as he's coming down, I go from beep, beep, beep, beep. Now, thank God he's on my right side because my left side is completely paralyzed.

I grab him with one hand. And then all I hear is CRT, CRT. And I'm like, what is that? It's the critical rescue team. So, that's all the people that come in and work on you after they've now revived you and resuscitated you. And so, then it goes from there to, you know, speech therapy. And you remember how I sounded. I had aphasia, which was stuttering. I could not get a sentence out. For two weeks, I literally did not say a word. I just grunted until my wife made me talk because she was like, use it or lose it. And then I went through speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy. There's so much more about this. Now, that's chapter, that's the second chapter of the book. The third chapter of the book is literally not about my stroke at all.

It's really about how not to become me and do that. You may never have a stroke. And I pray that you don't. Bear in mind, according to American Stroke Society, one in every four adult over the age of 25 will incur a stroke in their life. This was my second one, John. I don't think I've ever even told you. Well, you had the small one. Yeah, I had the little one. Because the brain, you were talking about that brain. Yeah, on the right side. Now, this one was the big one at the top. And I know God has a sense of humor because I'm a professional keynote speaker. Where was my stroke? In my speech center. Not only are you a keynote, you also did voiceovers. I do voiceovers. You had a whole business about doing voiceovers.

Absolutely. And it's in my speech center. And according to my neurologist, he said, had that stroke been a millimeter, northeast, south, or west, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It landed squarely in the one place in my brain that did not kill me permanently. And so the second half is how you learn to take that mask off. Whether you're in corporate, whether you're an entrepreneur, don't define yourself by what you do, what your title is, what your salary is, where you live, what your zip code is. And then I give some things like, you know, heavy meditation, some breathing exercises. I give a whole section on resources, but it's really about finding self-care and mindfulness and balance.

And I'm not talking about work-life balance like we talk about. I mean, actual balance, John. And the most important is I talk to people about how to be mindful and how to be present because we're all multitaskers. And I've realized now that I've come back from that stroke, there's really no such thing as multitasking because you're not focusing on either one of the, or the three things that you're doing. So you're never actually present. So that's the story, my man, in a gist. And of course, there's a whole lot more in the books, but that is kind of the crux of things. Hey, I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. I want to take a quick minute to share with you what I'm working on these days with my new JB Sales membership.

It includes live monthly training delivered by me on my two signature courses, which are filling the funnel and driving a close that cover all aspects of the sales process. It also includes monthly workshops that I'll be running on specific sales skills and different tech skills like ChatGPT and how to leverage AI throughout the entire sales process. Finally, the membership gives you access to my entire online catalog with every course and every tip I've ever done. And as an exclusive offer to my podcast listeners, if you go to JBarrows.com, click on the individual membership link and use coupon code PODCAST at checkout, you'll get 25% off. Now let's get back to the conversation. So you're, you believe in God?

Absolutely. I've got my four F's. Faith, family, fun. What was the fourth one? Friends. Friends, yeah. Um, what do you take away from this, right? I'm, I don't believe in a God. I'm a spiritual, you know, God is a being. I wouldn't say I'm religious. I'm certainly spiritual. Right. But, but you do believe in, in the God. Yes, a higher power. From your perspective, there's so many small things that happened to you that could have gone the other way. Like a millimeter on the other side. Absolutely. What do you think ultimately this was about? Like what, why did this happen from your perspective? If you were. I think there were a few things and I've really thought deeply and introspectively on this piece.

One of it was, um, I was being shown that I literally had no control. I thought I was running the show. Cause like I said, I had the big title. I'm an SVP. I've, I've been at, you know, Siebel and eBay and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In a moment's notice. I also have a better appreciation for the old adage of nobody's promise tomorrow. I was a guy that had no tomorrow. The other piece is that you should stop. And I know it's going to sound really hokey, but I really believe this. You got to stop and smell the roses while you still can, man, because anything can happen. I don't care who you are. Nobody is untouchable. I think the last piece is, and this is part of what my mom told me when I came back, remember in, in COVID, we had the quote unquote essential people, right?

Not as though everybody's not essential, but how it was defined for me, I define it differently. I define them as the invisible people. And what I mean by that is the people that park your car, the valets, the people that check you in at hotels, the waiters and waitresses, right? The, um, attendees on attendance, should I say on the plane, my mom said, my job was to go back and make sure that every day I find one of the quote unquote visible people and give them a smile that they would not have gotten that day to show them that they matter and people need them in the world. And I can't imagine that being a better goal daily, especially with where we are in the world. I couldn't, I couldn't agree with you more, man.

I say it at the end of all these podcasts, go out there and make somebody smile today because how bad your day is going or how bad it went, make somebody smile. You know, you had a good day. And, uh, this is, you know, so for you, right. With, let's back up to the hustle culture, right? Yeah. Cause I think, and I, and I'm struggling with this. Um, I know that I'll be all right, no matter what, you know what I mean? But, you know, you get into this mode where you, you, you get to a certain point in your life where you're living a certain lifestyle. And, you know, you got the house, you got the kids, you get the, this, you know, you got the school. And, and then there's this, like this, this pressure to continue to support and provide that lifestyle.

Even though you don't need it, nobody needs, nobody needs, I mean, I, you know, you know, our friend, you know, good friend, James Buckley, right? Yeah. You know, he goes to Ghana, uh, like every other year or something like that. And, and he always sends pictures back. Right. And, and, and actually my brother-in-law's from Ghana too. And these people are like, they have nothing. They have like no running water. They have nothing, but they are legitimately the, the, the happiest people on the planet. Right. So you look at that and you're like, I get it. I get it. I don't need all this. No. In our mind, they're Maslow level one. Right. But they're happier than most people on like level 10. By far.

And so like, how do you balance the, I live like, let's use me as an example. Right. I got this house. I know my, my lifestyle. I love what I do. And I'm looking at it, man, I want to keep living this lifestyle. I want Charlotte and all this other stuff. And I'm killing myself. Right. And I'm still working harder at 50 now than I was at fucking 20 for crying out loud. And I'm like, but, and there's that feeling of like, I got to keep doing this because like, if I stopped doing this, then we're not going to be able to, I'm not going to be able to pay the bill. I'm not going to be able to do this. I'm not going to be a Charlotte won't have that. So how do you talk to somebody like me who hadn't had a stroke yet?

You know what I mean? But quite frankly, I could easily see myself on that path to, to that easily. Yeah. I was worried about you for a while there, help somebody who is doing all right. You know what I mean? And I look, I'm not trying to reach that next level of being a multimillionaire or anything like that. I'm just trying to maintain this and, and, and try to, but I, but I, but I am a workaholic. There's no question about that. I've been working 12 to 15 hours a day, my entire life, six, seven days a week and very rarely take vacations and I like it. You know what I mean? Like I enjoy what I do and you know, I can, I can just, well, my daughter goes, you know, she comes home and does homework.

So what else am I going to do? Right. She's in her room. My wife's doing her thing. Like, well, why wouldn't I work? Why do I, why should I just sit there and watch TV? Right. That type of shit. So what's your advice to, to somebody like me who, who was somebody like you? Yeah. Um, I call it the Kool-Aid syndrome and anybody that has worked for as long as we have, have drank the Kool-Aid. And that is that old Kool-Aid adage is if you're sitting still, you're wasting time. And we've all bought into that. Right. And, and part of it is corporate drills that into us. We've always got to be doing something. If your email box is dry, something's wrong. If you're not going from one meeting back to back, something's wrong.

And then we went through the whole phase of, you know, wearing 50, 60 hours a week as a badge of courage. It's not that serious. And the reason I say that is because had I died and not come back, John, here's what my corporate company would have done. I know I've seen it happen time and time again, they would have put out some really rosy things on social media. They would have cut the distribution check to my wife and to my kids. And then they would have opened a new rec because they got to have somebody to take on that. It makes you reevaluate. And this is what I will ask your audience to do. Re-evaluate. Someone said something the other day that just stopped me in my tracks and it was so profound yet so simple.

And it went like this. If there is a task that you're doing that nobody else can do but you, is that task really that serious or important? Yeah, it got me too. Right. A part of it is ego. I'm the only one that can. I'm the best at this. I don't have time to train someone. I can just go do it myself. Well, here's what I would recommend to your audience. And I'm saying it because I do this every day. I've got a whiteboard right over here in front of me. Every morning before I look at my email, because after that, it's all firefighting instead of fire prevention, right? And it's all reactive. I want you to write up the three things that you're going to do today before you turn off your laptop, whatever those are.

And there's every day has to be one thing on there that is just for you, for no one else. That's going to make you feel better. I don't care if it's, I'm going to go and sit in my backyard and just enjoy the sun on my face. I'm going to go for a walk. You know what? Today, I think I'm just going to treat myself to Baskin Robbins. Whatever it is, it has to be one thing for you. And you don't get to take that one thing off and you don't need to, you don't get to skip it. Because the problem is as we get older, and that's why fun is one of my four Fs, the older we get, the less important fun becomes, right? It's because we've been conditioned. Think about this. We're out and we're at a lot of conferences, both of us, right?

You get out. What's the first thing that happens? You meet someone. You exchange your hand. Hi, my name is. Hi, my company is. Hi, my title is. Hi, this is what we sell, right? I have a really quick story frame. When my son Nate was little, he was probably like two or three, he was out and my wife was one of those play date days, again, while I was traveling, of course, right? But they're at the park playing and him and this little boy had their, their talking trucks and they were doing their thing, right? At the end, he's getting ready to go before she goes and puts him into the car seat. She says, go say goodbye to your friend. He goes back and you know, little kids, they go and hug. He comes in and my wife says, so Nate.

What's your friend's name? And he said, blue shirt. That was his answer. And I carry that in my heart every day, because if we could just think that way as, as adults, I don't care what your title is. I don't care where you work. I don't care what you're doing. What are you about? Who are you? What do you enjoy? What's life giving for you? Even look, and we said it before we came on life is not unicorns and rainbows right now. Life is lifing. If you can find one thing that makes you smile and makes you happy every day, you've had a hell of a day. And unfortunately, you've had a better day than most people. And so that's where it goes to giving that smile to someone. You're giving a part of yourself every time you smile at someone.

Every time you make them feel seen. Because, like I said, they're normally invisible. So give yourself some grace. We put so much pressure on ourselves. And we even talk to ourselves in language that we would never do with anybody else. No. All of us. And there's stuff I've said to myself that I would never say to anybody else. And then I have to stop. Or my kids will grab me or my wife or one of my boys will grab me and be like, dude, are you okay? Like, what do you mean? It's like, I've never seen you like this. That kind of stress. So if you've gotten comfortable living at that red line of stress, stop it. Give yourself some grace. Give yourself a break. A reality. I'm not talking about going off on a cruise and all that.

What I'm talking about is literally the old Jetsons statement. Jane, get me off this crazy thing. Just for a minute. However you have to do it to get away, right? You go open up your third eye. You do whatever you do, right? But you got to take some time to break the monotony of life and get off of that hamster wheel. Or you will wind up like me. And I am not the typical stroke survivor. We've seen it. A lot of people never get back. They don't get their function back. They don't get a chance to talk. I'm blessed. I do these things, John, not because I'm special. I do it because I was brought back to help other people not have to deal. With that. Let's talk about ego for a second. Because you and I lived a similar life before you hit that wall.

And we have a very similar story in the sense that we were both traveling. We were both up on stage. And I remember after my dad passed and I kind of had a coach trying to get my shit back together. And we went through the value exercise and all this other stuff. And, you know, I always figure I had good values. But, like, going through that exercise was actually a really helpful thing, right? To really do the core value. And I remember, you know, you get 50 values. You get it down to 20. You get it down to five. And then you prioritize them. And, you know, obviously family was on the list. And I remember asking him, you know, hey, you know, prioritize. Like, isn't family kind of default number one, right?

And he goes, and he kind of looked at me strangely. He goes, no. He goes, if you want family to be number one, you got to write it down. And you got to ask yourself with every decision you make, how does this impact my family, right? And I'll tell you right now, at that moment, it hit me like a ton of bricks, that, you know, I had been telling myself that I was flying around this world, being a weekend dad from my daughter, from when she was born until when she was 10 years old. Two million miles every single week, almost. And I was saying that I was doing this for my family. Of course. We all can make ourselves believe that. Exactly. And then when he hit that, I was like, God damn. No, I wasn't.

I was doing it because I was really fucking good at it. There it is. Model line. And you and I both know there's just something about being that guy, standing up on stage in front of a thousand people and then having people come up to you and be like, oh, man, that was incredible. That was fire. You did this. I wish I could. Yeah, all that. Or like flying to Japan for a day and be like, yeah, I'll be right back. You know what I mean? You'd be like, what the fuck? Like, you're going to Japan for a day? Yeah. Hit London. Then Paris. Then Geneva. Then Amsterdam. And it all sounds sexy, right? Yeah. But then I was realized, I was like, I didn't, I wasn't doing this for my family. I was doing this for me.

And it hurt. Most of us are. And you know what the biggest problem with that is? Most people will never actually, not just identify that, they'll never actually own up to that. Right? And we laugh about this all the time. I remember the last time I was at the house with you and the family, I was like, oh my God, I'm at John Barrows' house and I'm hanging in. And you're like, dude, seriously. I'm with Roderick and we're doing it. Because you're right. We walk around and neither of us carry ourselves like we're better than above or celebrity at all. But let's be honest. In our spaces, we kind of carry a bit of that. And sometimes you forget who you are and you kind of start hanging your hat on what you do and starting to believe.

My mom used to say, don't ever believe your press clippings because most of it is just somebody's opinion. Right? And I've learned now since the stroke that no matter how great a day is or how bad a day is, it's just a day. It's about how you react to it. And to your point about ego, we were doing it for ourselves. We loved being on the stage. We loved signing the books. We loved being seen. And everybody knows who you are. And you're the headliner. You're the keynote speaker. You're woo-woo-woo. You've got all the miles. So now you're sitting in first class. You've got all of the points. So you're at, like we were talking about, you're at Marriott. Hello, Mr. Barrows. Welcome back. You know, all that.

You come in and your name's on the TV. You're like, yeah, I'm kind of a big deal. Until what people don't say, they see the glory. What they don't see is we're sitting in the room by ourselves. We do our keynotes. We can't even go down to the sports bar because now you've got to have that same conversation. Or everybody wants to huddle around you. I'm blessed. And I'm glad they are. But there's times you just want a break. So now we're stuck in the room. They're not seeing where, like I said, I missed my daughter's eighth grade graduation. I cried the whole night. All right. Because, and how lonely it is being on the road. Is not, it's beautiful, but it's not what most people think. It's kind of like everybody wants to be a people manager until you're a people manager.

Right. The same thing happens with that lifestyle. Everybody wants that lifestyle until you realize at what cost. So with balance, you talked about that earlier, right? That work-life balance everybody talks about, which I always said is shit, right? Yeah. I think it's bullshit too. Well, kind of my philosophy on work-life balance is actually, I think it's kind of sad, right? Because, you know, you work about a 30, at least a third of your life. You sleep about a third of your life. So with this mentality of work-life balance, you're telling me you really only live about a third of your life. Right. So what does balance mean to you now that, now that you have this perspective, what does balance actually mean to you?

Balance means actually something you said earlier that really struck a nerve with me. And that is every decision I make now, I think, how's this going to impact my family? Also, how much can we enjoy this? So let's say I'm going to, what, to New York. My first thought is, and I asked my wife, you want to go? We can go in before, you know, do the touristy thing, catch the hop on, hop off tour, all that stuff. Or we can do it on the back end, which is probably not good because I'm going to be tired. So do you want to come in early? And then I do my thing and then go. Balance is also including the family and those things. I was doing a keynote about a month ago in San Francisco, mind you, right?

With, with a, uh, uh, VC firm. I realized that is the first time my daughter has ever seen me speak live. And I've been doing it for 30 years. She's going to be 36 next month. That was the first time. And I, I used to be of six. I'm like, you guys don't want to come and, you know, see the guy on stage. And you know what they told me? Dude, we hear you practice it all the time. We probably know your speech as well as you do. Talk about ego deflation. The other piece is I have, and my wife came back after, I remember I came back after one and I love that she does this. Every time I go away, I come back. She says two things. One, can you take the garbage out? Mr. Guru, Mr. Thought Leader, right?

And the second thing she always says is pick up your socks and drawers. Cause there's nobody coming to pick this up. This is our house. Now they keep me balanced and she will never let me get too high or too low. And you need that. You need that balance. And they've seen me at my worst and they still love me. And I'm not talking about just a stroke. I mean, when I'm just being an ass or I'm in a bad mood, and I take it out on them, they may not like me at the moment, but they've never stopped loving me. And you need that tribe around you. And for the listeners, if you don't have your tribe, you need a tribe around you. Cause sometimes you need these people to lift you up off the ground. And some people, sometimes you need to pull them back down out of the air and ground you back into the real world.

Because I don't care who you are. We all bleed. We all cry. We all go through the same thing. No matter what your name is, what you do, what your bank account says, it's the end of the day. We want to give love and be loved. You, so, Alretta's been part of the book. Even after your stroke, it said you were at a conference just days after the surgery, trying to kind of, like, you were in control. Like, trying to prove that you were in control. So, it didn't even, cause, you know, you talk about, like, you have this whole new perspective, right? And, and, but it doesn't sound like it happened immediately. It wasn't immediately. So, how did, because, you know, you woke up from the stroke, you went to the hospital, you had this shit happen, like, it's 2%, holy, and then you go back to fucking work.

Like, what? Yeah. A, like, I, you know, kind of show, like, I got this, right? Yeah. And I think that was probably just, like, you trying to convince yourself, like, I'm good, I'm good, right? Well, I'm an SVP at that time, right? So, I've got to go back and show that strength, I thought. So, when, like, when did the real realization hit you? Because it obviously didn't a few days afterwards, right? When did you really wake up and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck am I doing right now? Like, I just went through some shit, and I need to stop doing what I was doing and get another path. I'll tell you, it was about four months after I came back, and two things happened. I was out again because I had a pacemaker put in.

Remember that? Yep. That changed my whole perspective. Because this whole time, I was literally living on borrowed time, right? Because the ticker could have stopped at any moment. Now, at least if it happens, I've got the pacemaker and defibrillator inside it. But the big thing was, and it was right after Christmas, I came back, and I remember my CEO had said this to someone else on e-staff that said to me, and it was, he doesn't believe you actually had a stroke. Really? And look, what really shook me to my core was, I almost died doing this job. I won't say for that company, but doing that job. And you think that I faked this? That let me know that he didn't give a shit about me as a person.

And that's when I thought, you know what? And I knew it, but it really confirmed. Corporate America is here to make a profit, not friends. They don't care about us. And after that, I was like, you know what? If you don't care, I don't care anymore either. That was kind of me, right? Like, I always knew I didn't fit in corporate. I didn't know why, though, right? Because both my parents were entrepreneurs, even though that wasn't a thing back then. And I remember, like, when I was working at Xerox, it did, it hit me that I'm like, no matter how hard I work, like, I'm, you know, I was the best in their territory, whatever, you know, and, but I was like, you know what? No matter how hard I work, I ain't going to move this stock price one penny.

And if I, if I leave, they're going to find somebody else that fills me right back up. And they might not be as good as me, but they'll fill the, they'll fill the gap. It'll be good enough. And that when I realized how it ultimately me working in that scenario was actually selfish for me, because I was realizing the only reason I was working was for me. Like, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, yes, I could justify, well, I sold some stuff that helped other people do things and I could do the daisy chain all the way through while I sell Big Zero. That's not what I was doing. That's why you kind of going back to convincing yourself that, you know, means to an end and, you know, all this other stuff.

But, you know, that, that's why I'm so passionate about trying to help people, you know, build their own careers, like, like own their own shit. Right. As much as, and I even remember you and I talked about, you know, the, some of your career choices of, of being, you know, the chief, uh, or the chief, um, uh, diversity officer. Remember that one? Well, yeah. Back in the Salesforce days. Yeah. And I was like, are you sure about this one, man? And I'm like, this, is this one of those, like, you actually get to make a difference here or is this the check the box one? And you were like, uh, after a little while you're like, nope. Well, cause remember they wanted to put me under the VP of HR. Right.

Oh, you don't care about this. Oh, that's the check the box. So how do you, so how do you, so what advice do you give to, to people who are in corporate, who have to have that job, man? Like I, I wish we could all do our own thing and be independent and fuck corporate and whatever it is, but look, it plays a role. How do you, but, but now with how, you know, shit, how fast things are moving. And I, I do agree. Like I, the first minute corporation can cut, you know, make a buck, make a better profit. You're gone, right? You're gone. So what do you suggest to, to kids or anybody who are, who's living in corporate, working in corporate right now, knowing that, that, you know, they're just, they're making money.

They're doing something reasonable, you know, they're not being sleazy or anything like that, but how do you help them balance what they're doing, who they're doing it with and why they're doing it? Yeah. First of all, I'd say be realistic with yourself. First and foremost, after we've talked now for X amount of time, if you haven't gotten the point that you are a cog in the wheel, whether you like that or not, it's reality. So take that for what it's worth, right? The other piece is, as I talked about earlier with my whiteboard, make sure you find and make time. I know it sounds crazy, but make time to do something just for yourself every single day. The last piece is, unless you absolutely positively must work on the weekend, use the weekends to recharge your batteries.

Get away from it. Don't sit in your office trying to catch up on stuff because you're never going to catch up. The whole premise of corporate is that they're going to have more stuff in your inbox than you can ever do. So take some time and get away. The other piece is get, and the final piece, John, is get people around you that are not always going to agree with you. If you've got an echo chamber around you, you're doing the same thing they're doing. They don't have to agree with everything because you're doing things just for yourself. You're talking to me. You're talking to the person who's busting their ass right now, trying to fucking make a buck and working their ass off to do it. How do you balance that with the lack of work ethic?

Because there's the flip side of this coin where people just show up, do the bare fucking minimum. And I look at it and, you know, a lot of, I think Richard Harris was somebody who kind of woke me up a little bit when the millennial shit, when, you know, early days, all these fucking millennials, right? And, you know, we're all, all these old dogs are mad at them. And he was like, look, they're, they're, yes, okay, there's issues. But, but a lot of it is jealousy because these kids have opportunities and stuff that we never had. And so I, I try to balance this, this perception of the younger generation with, you know, I think I did a post one time, like, it was like, hey, stop doing what you're supposed to do, right?

You're supposed to go to school. You're supposed to get married. You're supposed to buy a house. You're supposed to get a job, right? Stop doing what you're supposed to do and do what you want to do, right? And one of the comments from somebody who was younger was like, yeah, John, that's all great for you to say, but it's almost like rich people saying that, you know, money doesn't matter, right? Because he's like, you, you had the benefit when you were like, you and I had the benefit of growing up of that structure, of that structure. Like there was a path and you went to college, you got a job, you got promoted, you got married, you bought a house, right? And you could veer off that path if you wanted to, but that was the path.

Now there's no path. Now the, now the path is all over the place, right? And these kids can do whatever the fuck they want to do. And so there's a blessing and a curse to that because I've always said like, you got to know the rules before you can break them. Oh, absolutely. The problem is, is there, it doesn't seem like there's any rules anymore. So there's no guardrails for them to go. So what do you give advice to a kid who's, who's, who's, who's, you know, or, or what's your perception right now of laziness in the corporate world versus taking that weekend? Right. Because I, I a hundred percent agree with you weekends, you know, just chill, do whatever, but you got these kids taking mental health days because they got hung up on by, on a cold call.

Right. And it's like, go fuck yourself just because life is hard. Like doesn't mean you get to mental health day and that diminishes what actual mental health issues are. So how do you like, what's your perspective on that? First of all, let's talk about, in my mind, the root cause. You're looking at it right now and I'm looking at it right now with you. It's our fault. Of course. Yes. And here's why I say that. And for all those that are of our age, 50 something, we busted our ass so that we can give our kids things that we couldn't have. And then it became an endless circle of, it was never enough. So we got them, the video games, we got them, this, we got them, the car, we got them in the schools.

We paid for, we never showed them how to go without. And they're not hungry because they've never been hungry. Right. That's true. Not for a day. That's the first piece. The second piece is I can argue that it's not laziness, that it is jealousy on our part. Right. And I'm first to say it, I'm like, I'll talk to my kids about their job. I'm like, yeah, I'm going, but it ain't that serious. And my instant response is what, what, what do you mean? And now I go, maybe they're right, John. Maybe that third of a life that we talked about earlier, maybe they're enjoying it just a little more. Right. As long as they're, they're moving forward. And I think finally the equalizer and you and me talk about it all the time.

Those two little initials, AI. Because if you get to a point where you are AI fluent, and I don't mean just proficient, but truly fluent, the world right now is your oyster. And it is the differentiator between not just the working harder and working smarter, but getting this down to a system that's scalable and repeatable that nobody else can do it the way you do it. And I think we're on the precipice right now of just huge. Yeah, I know AI can be great. It can be horrible, but let's talk about the positive sides of it. I guarantee you, we both still work hard, but we don't work as hard as we used to because we now leverage AI and we know how to do it. So, so here's, but yes, and what I realized is, and this goes back to the workaholic piece.

AI isn't saving me time, and I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Because it's allowing me to do things I've never done before. So, it's saving me time on certain tasks because, oh, you know, rip that, no problem, right? But, ooh, look what else I can do. Ooh, look what else I can do. So, now you're going down the rabbit hole. So, I'm like, I can do that, I can do that. Watch this, watch this, watch this. So, I'm like, I'm actually busier now with AI because I have this workaholic mentality that, holy shit, look what I can do now. And it's exciting, but like every once in a while I have to take a step back and be like, what the fuck? Like, I'm up until midnight and I'm doing like 15 different things that I used to outsource to 15 different people, but now that I can do it because my brain works a certain way and I know how to use this shit, like I've actually added more to my plate.

So, for me, it's like this balance of like, shit, John, stop. Like, just because you can, you actually say that in your book. You have to. Right? Here's something. I'm going to change the letters now from AI to EA. Ego addiction. That's exactly what it is. It's ego addiction. And I'll be in the same boat from time to time, too. It's the same reason that we wind up looking at one reel and then three hours later, we've seen 612 reels on Insta. It's dopamine hits. All of it. And that's where the balance comes in. You got to go, okay, enough. I have our houses, seven o'clock, turn the light, turn the machines off. Spend some time talking to each other. That was really awkward at first. I'm not even going to lie because normally, you know how it is.

You can sit on the same couch and be in two different worlds or on the same couch, sending reels back and forth to each other all night. We didn't have to do that. But if you can find a way to monitor that and throttle it, man, I'm telling you, at least for me, there's no way I could do half the things that I do in the time that I do it without AI now. Well, I use it and you're going to see a blog come out tomorrow on how to leverage AI to be more human. Not just for tasks and creation, but literally, what are you doing to put together IQ plus EQ plus AI? When you get to that level, then it alone will help you to throttle having to, or even wanting to do a million times. There's times I'll come in at three o'clock in the morning, I'll wake up and go, okay, I do it now.

I write it on my whiteboard. I don't go do it right now. There's the difference. I think you said, like, just because you can doesn't mean you should, right? Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Put it on the whiteboard and leave it there and then put it in your calendar later. All right. Let's finish up with this one because I think this is real in a lot of ways and not just for what you went through, but for what other people go through. The survivor guilt. Yeah. We talked about this one a couple of times we've talked. Yeah. You go through it. You got through it. You said, like, you are abnormal, my friend, as far as, like, what a stroke victim looks like and acts like after a stroke. Right. And so, you know, and a lot of us go through some crazy shit and then come out on the other side, blessed that we were on the other side, but then have to deal with the fact that, why me?

Why am I that one? So talk to me about the guilt you felt and then how you manage and leverage it. Yeah. I was in a lot of stroke survivor groups and it was great at first until I started to accelerate at, like, subhuman speed, I'll say. And then I would hear things like, I just walked 10 steps without my cane. I can use a real spoon for the first time in a year. And I'm like, I'm about to hop on a plane and go to Amsterdam and go do a keynote. So now I start feeling like, wow, why, why me? What happened? I'm not saying I want to go and be that person, but survivor's guilt is a real thing. And then it also makes you really go deep into sometimes some dark places of what am I supposed to be doing now that I'm here?

Am I doing enough? Who am I supposed to be helping? Is this a, a, a, um, way for me to learn something? Is somebody else supposed to learn it? Who am I supposed to go find? Your mind just goes crazy. So I am, and you know, I've always been a proponent, a big proponent of counseling. So I went and saw a therapist. I saw two therapists as a matter of fact. Um, and that's where giving yourself grace came from. And also look, we're human. We naturally compare, but when it comes to your emotions and your mental, there's only one you. So you don't get a chance to say, well, so-and-so did this in three months and I can do it in two and a half months. Nah, it's not, it is not a competition. All right.

And I'll say it again. A lot of people see the glory, not the story. What they don't see is, John, I still take 14 pills a day. Medication 14. I've got one of those old lady pill boxes and I have to go and take my meds and take them every day at 7am at 2pm. My family knows what time it is by when my phone goes off 7am, 2pm, 8pm. Three times a day. I take meds because if I don't, I'm that guy that's stuttering and slobbering all over myself. So am I healed and cured? No, it's never going to go away. Right. But yeah, I can stand up now and I can, you know, enunciate. See, there you go. Take that pill, man. It's 2 o'clock. It's 2 o'clock. There's that pill right on time, man. So you don't know what somebody's going through.

It's kind of like, you know, when you get it, you go park somewhere and you see someone get out of their car and then the handicap space and they walk normal. We're humans. You're like, come on, who really are you doing the handicaps? You don't know what their handicap is. And I say the same thing with mental health. You don't know what somebody is going through. You know, I was in dark places like I've never been before. So I thought until I wrote this book. And I had to put myself back in those same rooms. I had to put myself back in those really dark, ugly, scary times. And then again, I heard my mama say, baby, it's not for you. And I have to keep remembering that. She kept saying, it's not for you.

You're writing this for other people. Find something that isn't just for or even about you. I didn't write this book about me. God knows. I told you when I first started writing it, remember, I was like, I can't finish this shit. There's no way I'm going to write this because, man, it just hurts too much. But you know what? Sometimes you got to look at the life bigger and beyond just yourself and not having anything to do with a stroke. I'm talking about life is life. It could be finances. It could be your marriage. It could be relationship with your kids. It could be, you know, one time I felt like, man, I'm always giving, giving. When's something going to come back this way? Then you have to remember, you're alive.

Lights are on. No checks bounce. Nobody's got a monkey box. That's a good day. Right? Yes, it is. In all seriousness, it's all about perspective, man. So, my friends, what is next for Roderick? Oh, that's a great question. Right now, I am loving this age and stage of life. As you know, I've got a 19-month-old granddaughter now. My daughter and my son-in-law just moved into our city over the weekend. Oh, shit. I didn't know that. Yeah, I know. You didn't even know. They moved in and got a house here in town because they wanted to be closer to Grandpa and Yaya. So, they're here now. That's so good. So, she's going to eat up a lot of time. I can tell you that right now. Hell yeah. All she has to say is, Grandpa, she's got me wrapped up like a party.

Done. It's a wrap. What do you want? Yes. Do you need plastic? Do you need paper money? Do I need to go to the bank? What do you want? Yeah. Right? That's one part. The other part is, I've changed my approach even to keynotes. Before, I was talking about, you know, enablement. I was talking about AI. I was talking about driving productivity. I'm talking about struck a success right now. I am locked in on that because, and you see, it's all over my social media now. And it's not about selling books. It's not about selling courses. It's literally about trying to help people find themselves and have and enjoy that, as we say, that third of life. And if you won't do it for yourself, maybe you'll read something in the book.

Maybe you'll hear something on this podcast that'll go, you know what? He's right. Should I need to go do something just for me? I need to get off the hamster wheel. And do something about it before life forces it on you. And that's kind of the sad thing, I think, that so many people go through is, like, they don't stop and do, you know, take care of themselves until they're forced to. And sometimes that's a good thing because the forcing function isn't too severe. If you're still here to execute on it. Other times it's not. Most people aren't. Exactly. And so, you know, I use the analogy of, like, getting fired. Sometimes fired is, like, you know you weren't a good fit there. And they had to make that decision for you.

And so, okay, that's okay, right? But when it comes to your health, when it comes to your family, when it comes to those things, I hope people listening to this realize that, you know, before it's forced on you, and hopefully not in such a negative way, that you can maybe take some steps to alleviate some of that, those indicators, if you will, that are pushing you down the path. Because we have them. We just ignore them. Yeah, totally. All of us. And I think the older you get, the more you start to have that perspective. And it's almost like you wish you could go back and tell your 22, 25, 20, 30-year-old self, like, hey, like, like, slow down a little bit, man. Like, you got a long life to live here.

But, you know, there's some things that experience can only teach you, right? Sometimes, skinned knees and elbows are great teachers. I'm actually out talking to colleges and universities now about this. There you go. Because I really wish somebody would have told me that, you know, my uncle used to say all the time, I have never seen a U-Haul hitched to the back of a hearse. And I used to just laugh at it. Like, come on, really? But you know what? But now, at this age and stage, mortality means something completely different than it did 30 years ago. Remember, we're the old cats now that we used to be like, dude, that dude is old as dirt. Yeah. But it's us now. 50 was like, ooh, right? Like, damn.

Damn. And now I'm creeping up on it. I'm like, damn. There you go. All right, Roderick. Well, look, man, as you always know, we could talk for hours. And we do in the interest of leaving at least some stuff of the book for people to go read. Well, there's a ton of stuff still left. I know there is. There's so much to dive into. And I hope everybody goes out and gets this. It's called The Stroke of Success. So, Roderick, as always, tell people where they can find out more about you, about the book, and everything that you're doing, my friend. Because I am also going to recommend everybody, from a keynote standpoint, look your direction, especially now, especially with where we are now and the struggles that people are going through.

We could do a keynote on enablement. I could do a keynote on sales, whatever. That ain't going to make too much of a difference. But I think what you're working on right now is absolutely making a difference. So, talk to us a little bit about where people can find out more. Appreciate it. I always say, if you can't find me on social media, you're not really trying to find me. You can find me on LinkedIn at Roderick Jefferson. You can find myself in the book. And also, if you want to book me for keynotes, et cetera, conferences, offsites, whatever you're doing, also at Roderick Jefferson. Find me at Instagram, Roderick underscore J underscore associates. Or if you're on YouTube, let me guess, Roderick Jefferson.

I had to have something easy after this stroke that even I could remember, John. There you go. Awesome, man. Well, it's a blessing to have you in my life. Thank you, brother. Love you, man. And I mean that from the bottom of my soul. I truly do. You are my brother from another mother. You are a chosen family. You, the girls, family. And a whole new definition of family. Likewise, my friend. Likewise. Love you. Love you too, man. And for everybody listening. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I don't think you can, but I hope you come close. And I think as I always say in this time, it means more than most. Go out there and make somebody smile today. Because no matter how bad your day is going, or how bad you think it went, make somebody smile, you know you had a good day.

And the world means a lot more of that right now. So thank you all very much. And I will see you on the other side. And I will see you on the other side. And I will see you on the other side. And I will see you on the other side. And I will see you on the other side. And I will see you on the other side. And I will see you on the other side. And I will see you on the other side. With your support and our incredible guests, we're one of the top sales podcasts out there right now. And I can't thank you enough. Now, to keep the momentum going, it would mean the world to me if you could go and leave a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform and share some of your favorite episodes with your network.

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